I'd be shocked if he stands trial again. He'll find his way out of the country.

tysker said:

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He was convicted in Feb 2000, so he basically served all of his 30-year sentence. He's already missed a lot of life. Pitch Black, The Beach, and Reindeer Games were released that same month. When he went to jail Savage Garden were hitmakers *shiver*

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I read they made him watch The Beach and Reindeer Games as punishment for misconduct that first month.

I would bet he doesn't sue the state as he would have to prove he was wrongly convicted, which he can't do.

If he finds "the real killer" like OJ, then he can sue.

GoAgs92 said:

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I would bet he doesn't sue the state as he would have to prove he was wrongly convicted, which he can't do.

If he finds "the real killer" like OJ, then he can sue.

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I dont know anything but if thats true thats freakin ridiculous.

by law he is not the killer. they detained him for half his life.

he should be owed a ton of money.

What part of the law says he is not the killer. He hasn't been found innocent.

Four Seasons Landscaping said:

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What part of the law says he is not the killer. He hasn't been found innocent.

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He hasn't been found guilty (conviction was vacated), therefore he is innocent until proven guilty.

That's not the same thing as "by law he's not the killer" at all.

If that were the case, then by law nobody was the killer

Four Seasons Landscaping said:

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That's not the same thing as "by law he's not the killer" at all.

If that were the case, then by law nobody was the killer

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There is no such thing as "by law he's not the killer". Only innocent until proven guilty, or "not guilty".

Then we don't disagree.

You should have replied to gigemJTH12 instead of me..

Four Seasons Landscaping said:

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That's not the same thing as "by law he's not the killer" at all.

If that were the case, then by law nobody was the killer

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Well technically by law nobody we know was the killer.

Quote:

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Well technically by law nobody we know was the killer.

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Technically, the law still allows for the possibility that Adnan was the killer as well. While HIGHLY doubtful, he could still be prosecuted for the murder.

I'm just calling out the claim from higher up that "by law he's not the killer".

Right..but as of today, by law he is not the killer. That can change at some future date.

Same way that OJ by law is not a murderer.

The Judge gave the prosecution 30 days to decide if they want to retry the case. I'm guessing once that decision is made then he will either face trial again or be entitled to a settlement.

Nope, not the same way at all.

Adnan has not been found "not guilty". You could not prosecute OJ for that murder.

Ken Scarborough said:

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I'd be shocked if he stands trial again. He'll find his way out of the country.

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He's wearing an ankle monitor.

It is a pretty sad indictment on things that a dude who choked out his girlfriend gets to become a celebrity because he sounded nice on a podcast. He had motive, opportunity, no alibi, his cell phone placed him in the area and he had an accomplice that helped bury her. Not to mention that the accomplice had information that directly implicated them in the crime. Maybe 20+ years is enough considering Adnan killed her when he was a minor. I don't know, I don't have personal stakes in this. But I do feel bad for the victim's family. A podcast has glorified the murderer of their child and now they have to re-live this trauma all over again. But this time there will be no closure (this case will never be tried again) they also get to watch Adnan cash in on murdering their daughter.

jeffdjohnson said:

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It is a pretty sad indictment on things that a dude who choked out his girlfriend gets to become a celebrity because he sounded nice on a podcast. He had motive, opportunity, no alibi, his cell phone placed him in the area and he had an accomplice that helped bury her. Not to mention that the accomplice had information that directly implicated them in the crime. Maybe 20+ years is enough considering Adnan killed her when he was a minor. I don't know, I don't have personal stakes in this. But I do feel bad for the victim's family. A podcast has glorified the murderer of their child and now they have to re-live this trauma all over again. But this time there will be no closure (this case will never be tried again) they also get to watch Adnan cash in on murdering their daughter.

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There are some people out there that would say this about a cousin of mine, who spent 21 years in prison for a crime he did not commit. My cousin was picked out of an in-person lineup by the victim of a sexual assault. Because of her testimony, he was convicted. 21 years later, DNA proved him innocent.

The reason the victim picked him out of the lineup? Prior to the in-person lineup, the victim had been shown a photo lineup. My cousin was the only person in both the photo lineup and the in-person lineup, so the victim thought he must be the guilty party.

There really ARE innocent people in prison. It makes people feel uncomfortable, but it is true.

wow...that is awful. did he have a terrible attorney? how did he not have an alibi?

did he get paid?

Over/Under on number of months until Sarah Koenig is carrying his baby?

gigemJTH12 said:

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wow...that is awful. did he have a terrible attorney? how did he not have an alibi?

did he get paid?

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He was a drug addict who was known to the police. He didn't have a good alibi. But his fingerprints did not match ones that were found on the victim, either. He was convicted solely based on her testimony that he "looked familiar" (because she had seen his photo). At least that is how they first decided it was him.

Ken Scarborough said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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canadiaggie said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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That's some ****ed up *****

Dude is guilty as ****.

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They found the victim's car behind one of the other unnamed suspect's house and refused to investigate further. The prosecutors at the time apparently knew that this other suspect threatened to make the victim "disappear." The prosecutors were aware of this before Adnan was convicted.

Did he do it? No clue. But not investigating the other possibilities and honing in on one guy when there was a lot of evidence suppressed that pointed at others is not how the justice system should work.

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Dude...his" friend" was shown the body by Syed. His "friend" helped bury her.

He's guilty.

At the same time he's served a lot of time and he was only 17.

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His "friend"... You're referring to Jay. Jay told so many different stories that he has absolutely ZERO credibility. And he was led through his interview by the police. Adnan should have never been convicted. I don't know if Adnan did it or not. I lean towards "not". But he definitely should not have been convicted.
You'll neve con

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Tell me you haven't studied the case without telling me you haven't studied the case.

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I have listened to all the adnan supported podcastt and documentaries and read all the transcripts. I am 99% he did it. Jay lied to minimize his involvement. Still he knows details like what she was wearing and where the car was. Even if you ignore Jay there is no getting around Jen.
Also Adnan has told several different stories over the years. From asking Hae for a ride, to not asking. Adnan has lied just as much as Jay

canadiaggie said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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canadiaggie said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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That's some ****ed up *****

Dude is guilty as ****.

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They found the victim's car behind one of the other unnamed suspect's house and refused to investigate further. The prosecutors at the time apparently knew that this other suspect threatened to make the victim "disappear." The prosecutors were aware of this before Adnan was convicted.

Did he do it? No clue. But not investigating the other possibilities and honing in on one guy when there was a lot of evidence suppressed that pointed at others is not how the justice system should work.

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Dude...his" friend" was shown the body by Syed. His "friend" helped bury her.

He's guilty.

At the same time he's served a lot of time and he was only 17.

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I doubt they ask the court to vacate the conviction unless some damning evidence came to light regarding the other two suspects the state's attorney referenced in the motion. Just my opinion.

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I think he was released bc of the obvious Brady violation. The state never disclosed they got two phone calls claiming another suspect threatened Hae's life

Rex Racer said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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canadiaggie said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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That's some ****ed up *****

Dude is guilty as ****.

---

They found the victim's car behind one of the other unnamed suspect's house and refused to investigate further. The prosecutors at the time apparently knew that this other suspect threatened to make the victim "disappear." The prosecutors were aware of this before Adnan was convicted.

Did he do it? No clue. But not investigating the other possibilities and honing in on one guy when there was a lot of evidence suppressed that pointed at others is not how the justice system should work.

---

Dude...his" friend" was shown the body by Syed. His "friend" helped bury her.

He's guilty.

At the same time he's served a lot of time and he was only 17.

---

His "friend"... You're referring to Jay. Jay told so many different stories that he has absolutely ZERO credibility. And he was led through his interview by the police. Adnan should have never been convicted. I don't know if Adnan did it or not. I lean towards "not". But he definitely should not have been convicted.
You'll neve con

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Tell me you haven't studied the case without telling me you haven't studied the case.

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Have listened to every podcast I could find on the case, including Undisclosed, which goes into a LOT more depth than Serial. There is zero credibility to anything Jay says.

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Undisclosed actually helped convince me adnan did it. You do realize a producer on the show put forth a theory that hae was involved in a car crash that led to her death. Undisclosed is nothing more than propoganda.

Rex Racer said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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Rex Racer said:

---

Ken Scarborough said:

---

canadiaggie said:

---

Ken Scarborough said:

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That's some ****ed up *****

Dude is guilty as ****.

---

They found the victim's car behind one of the other unnamed suspect's house and refused to investigate further. The prosecutors at the time apparently knew that this other suspect threatened to make the victim "disappear." The prosecutors were aware of this before Adnan was convicted.

Did he do it? No clue. But not investigating the other possibilities and honing in on one guy when there was a lot of evidence suppressed that pointed at others is not how the justice system should work.

---

Dude...his" friend" was shown the body by Syed. His "friend" helped bury her.

He's guilty.

At the same time he's served a lot of time and he was only 17.

---

His "friend"... You're referring to Jay. Jay told so many different stories that he has absolutely ZERO credibility. And he was led through his interview by the police. Adnan should have never been convicted. I don't know if Adnan did it or not. I lean towards "not". But he definitely should not have been convicted.
You'll neve con

---

Tell me you haven't studied the case without telling me you haven't studied the case.

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Have listened to every podcast I could find on the case, including Undisclosed, which goes into a LOT more depth than Serial. There is zero credibility to anything Jay says.

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Undisclosed is literally out out by Adnans defense team.

There's a reason why project innocence stopped looking into it.

Oh well. He did it. He may get out but it's not like he got away with it.

I'm finished discussing this.

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No, it was started by Rabia, a friend, but there are two other unrelated attorneys on the podcast. And the evidence doesn't lie. The police focused on Adnan and did what they had to do to ensure a conviction.

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Not true. The police focused on her current boyfriend. They looked at Adnan's cell phone which les them to Jay and Jen. There is no getting around that Jenn told police Jay told her adnan killed hae the night she picked up Jay who was with adnan. Adnan has no alibi bc every alibi is easily discredited. Dont get me started on Asia.

With that said, the state committed a blantant brady violation and adnan deserves a new trial. I have little doubt a out his actual innocence (he is guilty) but he was not able to put up a better defense bc of Brady

I thought the Brady was minors convicted and served over 20 years.

What's the Brady violation?

And didn't Jen help Jay clean the tools they used to bury Hae?

Brady violation is when the stte does not turn over all the evidence they have. The state receieved two phone calls before Adnan was on trial that said they heard a suspect say they were going to kill hae

Give him a new trial. Convict him. Put him in for another 30

guadalupeag said:

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The Judge gave the prosecution 30 days to decide if they want to retry the case. I'm guessing once that decision is made then he will either face trial again or be entitled to a settlement.

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They should make him sign that he won't sue and they won't retry….win win.

He then makes dough selling his story rights.

option short side said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Ken Scarborough said:

---

Rex Racer said:

---

Ken Scarborough said:

---

canadiaggie said:

---

Ken Scarborough said:

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That's some ****ed up *****

Dude is guilty as ****.

---

They found the victim's car behind one of the other unnamed suspect's house and refused to investigate further. The prosecutors at the time apparently knew that this other suspect threatened to make the victim "disappear." The prosecutors were aware of this before Adnan was convicted.

Did he do it? No clue. But not investigating the other possibilities and honing in on one guy when there was a lot of evidence suppressed that pointed at others is not how the justice system should work.

---

Dude...his" friend" was shown the body by Syed. His "friend" helped bury her.

He's guilty.

At the same time he's served a lot of time and he was only 17.

---

His "friend"... You're referring to Jay. Jay told so many different stories that he has absolutely ZERO credibility. And he was led through his interview by the police. Adnan should have never been convicted. I don't know if Adnan did it or not. I lean towards "not". But he definitely should not have been convicted.
You'll neve con

---

Tell me you haven't studied the case without telling me you haven't studied the case.

---

Have listened to every podcast I could find on the case, including Undisclosed, which goes into a LOT more depth than Serial. There is zero credibility to anything Jay says.

---

Undisclosed is literally out out by Adnans defense team.

There's a reason why project innocence stopped looking into it.

Oh well. He did it. He may get out but it's not like he got away with it.

I'm finished discussing this.

---

No, it was started by Rabia, a friend, but there are two other unrelated attorneys on the podcast. And the evidence doesn't lie. The police focused on Adnan and did what they had to do to ensure a conviction.

---

Not true. The police focused on her current boyfriend. They looked at Adnan's cell phone which les them to Jay and Jen. There is no getting around that Jenn told police Jay told her adnan killed hae the night she picked up Jay who was with adnan. Adnan has no alibi bc every alibi is easily discredited. Dont get me started on Asia.

With that said, the state committed a blantant brady violation and adnan deserves a new trial. I have little doubt a out his actual innocence (he is guilty) but he was not able to put up a better defense bc of Brady

---

If they had focused on Don, they would have realized that his alibi was suspect. But they didn't. His alibi was that he was working at a different store, but the time card he used there had a different employee number on it than his, and his mother was the manager.

I don't trust a thing that Jen says. She was alone with Detective's Ritz and MacGillivary, who interviewed her without a recording first, then recorded what she said. I strongly suspect that, just like Jay, they fed her what to say. There is no denying that they did that with Jay, given the way his story always changed to match the detectives' understanding of the cell phone records and tower locations. His story was one way when the detectives thought a tower existed next to the McDonalds, and it changed when the detectives realized that the tower was not there, but near Kristi's (not her real name Kathy) house.

GoAgs92 said:

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guadalupeag said:

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The Judge gave the prosecution 30 days to decide if they want to retry the case. I'm guessing once that decision is made then he will either face trial again or be entitled to a settlement.

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They should make him sign that he won't sue and they won't retry….win win.

He then makes dough selling his story rights.

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I think this would be an Alford plea. Same deal the West Memphis 3 took.

Faustus said:

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tysker said:

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He was convicted in Feb 2000, so he basically served all of his 30-year sentence. He's already missed a lot of life. Pitch Black, The Beach, and Reindeer Games were released that same month. When he went to jail Savage Garden were hitmakers *shiver*

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I read they made him watch The Beach and Reindeer Games as punishment for misconduct that first month.

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Being forced to watch The Beach is a violation of the 8th Amendment!

DannyDuberstein said:

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Give him a new trial. Convict him. Put him in for another 30

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nah...i'm thinking retry, conviction, and time served, with a likely agreement (as stated above) that he won't sue.

I've gone back and forth. When I first heard the podcast, I thought he was innocent. Then going back and looking at the more obvious details (Jay's testimony, Adnan's lack of effort in calling/looking for Hae), the writing is on the wall that he did it, but both the prosecution and the defense were sloppy with their handling of the case.

Too many "coincidences" for him to be innocent. As one poster pointed out previously, there are innocent people that are put behind bars, but this guy is not one of them.

At the end of the day, jealous boyfriend kills girlfriend makes the most sense. He had motive, means and opportunity.

Rex Racer said:

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jeffdjohnson said:

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It is a pretty sad indictment on things that a dude who choked out his girlfriend gets to become a celebrity because he sounded nice on a podcast. He had motive, opportunity, no alibi, his cell phone placed him in the area and he had an accomplice that helped bury her. Not to mention that the accomplice had information that directly implicated them in the crime. Maybe 20+ years is enough considering Adnan killed her when he was a minor. I don't know, I don't have personal stakes in this. But I do feel bad for the victim's family. A podcast has glorified the murderer of their child and now they have to re-live this trauma all over again. But this time there will be no closure (this case will never be tried again) they also get to watch Adnan cash in on murdering their daughter.

---

There are some people out there that would say this about a cousin of mine, who spent 21 years in prison for a crime he did not commit. My cousin was picked out of an in-person lineup by the victim of a sexual assault. Because of her testimony, he was convicted. 21 years later, DNA proved him innocent.

The reason the victim picked him out of the lineup? Prior to the in-person lineup, the victim had been shown a photo lineup. My cousin was the only person in both the photo lineup and the in-person lineup, so the victim thought he must be the guilty party.

There really ARE innocent people in prison. It makes people feel uncomfortable, but it is true.

---

No doubt there are innocent people in prison. I appreciate the work that innocence projects do in that regard. I just wish that Sarah would have made a podcast about your cousin. Instead, she found a nice kid who choked his girlfriend to death and then buried her in a shallow grave with an accomplice. Now people celebrate the killer's release while the victim's family endures indignity upon their tragedy.

Sarah told an entertaining, yet disingenuous story about memory and the role it plays in criminal proceedings. In Episode 1 she proposed an interesting thought experiment about remembering a day 6 weeks in the past. However, she neglected to highlight that Adnan was called by the police on his cell phone within hours of the victim going missing. There was nothing ordinary about that day for Adnan. I don't see how Sarah telling a sympathetic story about this murderer actually helps truly innocent people. It just makes me more cynical.

I lean towards the guilty party being Alonzo Sellers (Mr. S.). He found the body, and he failed a polygraph miserably, and he has been arrested for indecent exposure *many* times over the years, both before and after Hae's death.

He later passed a 2nd polygraph, but the questions on the 2nd one were very strange. I don't know why they would not ask him the same questions that he failed on the 1st one.

The questions can be found here:

https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evidenceprof/2014/12/ive-done-six-posts-hereherehereherehere-andhere-about-sarah-koenigsserial-podcast-which-deals-withthe-1999-prosecutio.html

As I have said before, I don't know if Adnan did it or not (I admittedly lean towards "not"). But the detectives and prosecutors in the case pulled so many shenanigans that it's unbelievable. Detective Ritz has had other cases that he built overturned due to the convict later being exonerated. He did whatever he had to do to get a conviction in his cases, despite the evidence, and I don't respect that at all.