Koenig has the ultimate drivethru voice. I love to listen to her talk.
Adnan Sayed (Serial) update
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Last: 8 mo ago by Guitarsoup
Paul Flores was found guilty of 1st degree murder of Kristin Smart.
Ruben was found not guilty of accessory after the fact.
Ruben was found not guilty of accessory after the fact.
Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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I have been leaning towards "Adnan probably did it" for years. Never felt strongly enough to say he definitely did it or didn't do it though.
Upon listening to the follow up podcast its revealed that Jay told a reporter yet more conflicting information from what he originally told cops and the court before. I think his testimony at this point has to be thrown out completely. Without that (and not even considering the new DNA evidence) there was enough reasonable doubt to acquit.
I don't have all the intel on the other 2 suspects but I am having trouble understanding why Bilal Ahmed is a suspect in this. I know he got in trouble for lewd acts and other things but that was mostly with males it seems. Is there any connection to Hae knowing him? Is there any reason to believe Bilal went outside his MO to murder a girl?
*And for the record,I'm now pretty 5050 on Adnan being the guy.
Upon listening to the follow up podcast its revealed that Jay told a reporter yet more conflicting information from what he originally told cops and the court before. I think his testimony at this point has to be thrown out completely. Without that (and not even considering the new DNA evidence) there was enough reasonable doubt to acquit.
I don't have all the intel on the other 2 suspects but I am having trouble understanding why Bilal Ahmed is a suspect in this. I know he got in trouble for lewd acts and other things but that was mostly with males it seems. Is there any connection to Hae knowing him? Is there any reason to believe Bilal went outside his MO to murder a girl?
*And for the record,I'm now pretty 5050 on Adnan being the guy.
I still think Adnan did it, but I think it's fair to question the case. I do think podcasts are typically very biased and there is probably other evidence they are leaving out. Regardless, even though I think he did it, I'm not upset he's being let out. He served 20 years.
Kind of interesting:
Syed was freed by the activist lame duck state's attorney Marilyn Mosby. She is currently facing tons of federal charges on a wide variety of things.
The family of Hae Min Lee appealed what Mosby did on the basis of victim's rights and Syed's conviction was reinstated. Syed remains free pending appeals.
Syed was freed by the activist lame duck state's attorney Marilyn Mosby. She is currently facing tons of federal charges on a wide variety of things.
The family of Hae Min Lee appealed what Mosby did on the basis of victim's rights and Syed's conviction was reinstated. Syed remains free pending appeals.
Yea but did he finally bang the chick thst did the podcast or what?
Sea Speed said:
Yea but did he finally bang the chick thst did the podcast or what?
I don't think Sarah cared at all about Adnan or Hae or anyone else in it. She got rich and made her name.
Asia McClain - the girl that offered to lie about the alabi and Rabia - his best friend's sister are different stories.
I'm listening to the prosecutors podcast multi part episodes covering the case. They're about to start talking theories in the next few episodes but they've sounded throughout the series like they think he did it. It's interesting there are several other podcasts out there that are 100% convinced he didn't do it. This case has always brought split opinions.
Rabia is the main one pushing that Adnan is innocent. I don't even think she thinks Adnan is innocent, but believes more in protecting her community. She was in the same Mosque and Desi community and her older brother was Adnan's best friend. Her older brother agreed to give Adnan an alibi when the cell phone records proved that Adnan was over 30 minutes away from where he said Adnan was.Jimmy McNulty said:
I'm listening to the prosecutors podcast multi part episodes covering the case. They're about to start talking theories in the next few episodes but they've sounded throughout the series like they think he did it. It's interesting there are several other podcasts out there that are 100% convinced he didn't do it. This case has always brought split opinions.
FWIW: I am friends with a Baltimore detective (who has since retired and became a professional photographer, which is how I know him) that was not a lead detective on this, but was with Jay when Jay led BPD to Hae's car. From the stories he has told me, it was 100% Adnan with Jay helping after the fact. Nothing else makes sense.
Big thing that all the Adnan-supporters can't get around:
Police went to Jenn's house (Jen is friends with Adnan, good friends with Jay; possibly slept with one or both of them) because they had phone records of Adnan calling her on the day of the murder. She said that Adnan was probably calling someone else at their house and that she would talk to police the next day.
The next day, Jenn went to police with her attorney and told them that Adnan strangled Hae. The problem here was that police had been holding back the cause of death, but Jenn told police the correct cause of death, which only the killer would have known.
I've always thought he was the only one that made sense. There's just too many things pointing to him to all be coincidence. That's very interesting about knowing the balt detective.
Jimmy McNulty said:
It's interesting there are several other podcasts out there that are 100% convinced he didn't do it. This case has always brought split opinions.
With any of the True Crime podcasts, you've got to consider their motivations. A podcast where they present the facts and say, "Yeah, the police got this 100% correct," isn't going to be very popular. The podcasts gain popularity by convincing people something was missed, they are smarter than the police, etc.
Guitarsoup said:Rabia is the main one pushing that Adnan is innocent. I don't even think she thinks Adnan is innocent, but believes more in protecting her community. She was in the same Mosque and Desi community and her older brother was Adnan's best friend. Her older brother agreed to give Adnan an alibi when the cell phone records proved that Adnan was over 30 minutes away from where he said Adnan was.Jimmy McNulty said:
I'm listening to the prosecutors podcast multi part episodes covering the case. They're about to start talking theories in the next few episodes but they've sounded throughout the series like they think he did it. It's interesting there are several other podcasts out there that are 100% convinced he didn't do it. This case has always brought split opinions.
Not saying you're wrong - at all - but if this is all public for us to know, shouldn't it be pretty easy for a prosecutor to establish?
I guess I don't know where we are in the process. But if we've got quotes or known stances or lies from witnesses, it feels like the truth could be fully established and pretty damning for Adnan. At least if all this is true.
Yeah, it is all pretty much established.rhutton125 said:Guitarsoup said:Rabia is the main one pushing that Adnan is innocent. I don't even think she thinks Adnan is innocent, but believes more in protecting her community. She was in the same Mosque and Desi community and her older brother was Adnan's best friend. Her older brother agreed to give Adnan an alibi when the cell phone records proved that Adnan was over 30 minutes away from where he said Adnan was.Jimmy McNulty said:
I'm listening to the prosecutors podcast multi part episodes covering the case. They're about to start talking theories in the next few episodes but they've sounded throughout the series like they think he did it. It's interesting there are several other podcasts out there that are 100% convinced he didn't do it. This case has always brought split opinions.
Not saying you're wrong - at all - but if this is all public for us to know, shouldn't it be pretty easy for a prosecutor to establish?
I guess I don't know where we are in the process. But if we've got quotes or known stances or lies from witnesses, it feels like the truth could be fully established and pretty damning for Adnan. At least if all this is true.
Here is a great guide to all. It will take a long time to go through the various posts, but they are really well organized and have all the information you are looking for.
https://old.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/xq62e6/a_guide_to_the_tldr_odyssey_of_serial/
The things I am specifically referencing are from this sub-post starting with the Grand Jury section, but you should read all of it.
https://old.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/akmdjj/stick_a_fork_in_asia_and_this_case/
Basically, in the grand jury, they used two witnesses from Adnan's mosque: Bilal and Saad. Bilal was the youth pastor or whatever you want to call it at the mosque and Saad was Adnan's best friend, and also Rabia's brother. They are the only two people (out of a thousand or more) that placed Adnan at the Mosque at 8, only at the time, his cell phone pinged at Leakin Park, right where Hae was being buried.
Bilal wasn't just his "youth pastor" he also was sexually abusing Adnan and other boys at the Mosque. Bilal was caught by police sexually abusing a 14yo boy after Adnan was arrested. Bilal later became a dentist, and used laughing gas to knock out a young boy that was getting treatment, and that boy woke up in the dentist chair with Bilal's dick in his mouth. Bilal is in jail now.
Saad is Rabia's older brother. Rabia is the one that pushed for Serial to get made by Sarah Koening and has pushed to free him.
So Bilal the child rapist and Saad are Adnan's alibis 8pm-bedtime. But he needed one from 2:15pm-8pm.
On the Serial Website, you can see Asia McClain's letter dated March 1st to Adnan right at the top. https://serialpodcast.org/season-one/maps
Only Serial only includes page 1 of that letter. Why? Well, the first paragraph of page two is basically Asia saying she really hopes Adnan is not guilty because she will give him an alibi from 2:15pm-8pm, since that is what he needs.
Here is page 1 AND 2: https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/19990301-Asia-McClain-Letter-1-Handwritten-Extr-from-20100528.pdf
Here's the important part of page 2:
In that "stick a fork in asia and this case" link above, they go into great detail about how they know that she wrote this letter significantly later and back dated it to March 1st.
Yeah, that letter is really weird, and probably isn't all that trustworthy. On the first page she says she remembers chatting with him at the library, and then on the second page she says, "If you were at the library..." If she is so sure she chatted with him at the library, why say "If you were at the library." Also, the letter says that she contacted the library and they have security cameras inside. If that's true, then her alibi isn't necessary, as the library would have him on tape.
AustinAg2K said:
Yeah, that letter is really weird, and probably isn't all that trustworthy. On the first page she says she remembers chatting with him at the library, and then on the second page she says, "If you were at the library..." If she is so sure she chatted with him at the library, why say "If you were at the library." Also, the letter says that she contacted the library and they have security cameras inside. If that's true, then her alibi isn't necessary, as the library would have him on tape.
Yeah, it's really clear she lied and really clear she backdated those letters.
In his briefs for ineffective assistance of counsel, he said he got those letters and have them to his attorney Christina Gutierrez the next day.
Problems: CG wasn't hired for six-seven weeks after the letter
She addressed it with Adnan's prisoner ID and address, which Adnan didn't even know until March 6th or 7th.
It was blatantly obvious that she was lying and CG could not have put her on the stand if CG knew she was going to lie
She is dumb as hell and would have been destroyed on cross by the state.
I don't know if the girl is lying or not, but I can see why the defense might not want to use the letter. It's not a clear alibi. It's more like, "I may, or may not, have seen you at the library." That doesn't really help, and to a jury could actually hurt, because it does make it seem like she's trying to help him cover stuff up.
Of all cases to make a huge deal over, why this one? If you want to free a guy, find something that is a little more clear cut. Imo there is still way too great a chance this guy did it for people to get this involved.
Sea Speed said:
Of all cases to make a huge deal over, why this one? If you want to free a guy, find something that is a little more clear cut. Imo there is still way too great a chance this guy did it for people to get this involved.
My thing with this is that there isn't any evidence that anybody else did it
The closest they have is touch DNA found on her shoe that did not match Adnan. But that touch DNA was found to come from four different sources. It was touch DNA so it could have been as simple as her shoes were in a shared locker at school during lacrosse practice. The DNA was not blood or semen or anything that would indicate that it was associated with the murder.
There's no evidence that would implicate anyone other than Adnan and Jay
Guitarsoup said:
There's no evidence that would implicate anyone other than Adnan and Jay
Sea Speed said:
Of all cases to make a huge deal over, why this one? If you want to free a guy, find something that is a little more clear cut. Imo there is still way too great a chance this guy did it for people to get this involved.
As for the why this case, it's because some lady at Syed's Church was really persistent in getting some one from the press to look at the case. The the "journalist" who looked at the case, didn't present the story as, "Here are the facts.". They turned it into a story and got you to get invested in the characters. I don't really think there's anything different about this case from thousands of others out there. What made this one different is that someone chose to make podcast about it. I really think Serial (and also that Netflix doc about Steven Avery) are masterclasses in storytelling, and framing facts in a way that's not lying, but also not being entirely honest.
Thanks for the info! I don't pay much attention to usernames but I recognize you as my JFK Leader and now I again appreciate your thorough documentation on this Serial case.
rhutton125 said:
Thanks for the info! I don't pay much attention to usernames but I recognize you as my JFK Leader and now I again appreciate your thorough documentation on this Serial case.
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