But did they have to handle it? As said before about NPH, gay actors play straight characters and visa versa… do we really need for the character of Vanya/Viktor to mirror the life of the actor?

Seemed unnecessary and pretty distracting.

I mean... I guess Elliot Page could have played a girl character, but I think THAT would have been distracting. I just don't know how anyone can be distracted by this in a show where a half million things happen that are never explained at all.

The gender change thing wasn't even top five on annoying things just about that character.

bobinator said:

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I mean... I guess Elliot Page could have played a girl character, but I think THAT would have been distracting. I just don't know how anyone can be distracted by this in a show where a half million things happen that are never explained at all.

The gender change thing wasn't even top five on annoying things just about that character.

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I agree, al the crazy things that have happened to these characters, and one swapping gender is where they draw the line.

Quad Dog said:

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bobinator said:

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I mean... I guess Elliot Page could have played a girl character, but I think THAT would have been distracting. I just don't know how anyone can be distracted by this in a show where a half million things happen that are never explained at all.

The gender change thing wasn't even top five on annoying things just about that character.

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I agree, al the crazy things that have happened to these characters, and one swapping gender is where they draw the line.

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It's not the gender swapping, it's the why and execution because it really doesn't fit. Everything else that is ridiculous or unexplained at least plays a part in the overall story or is incredibly minor. This was a major character change that had no reason, no explanation, and no contribution.

Page continuing to play Vanya wouldn't have been distracting at all because nothing would have changed. It's literally the same person.

For me the gender swap was the least annoying thing about Vanya/Victor's character. Every other character has some charm, redeeming qualities, and relatable flaws. Victor is just a walking nuke with a bad attitude all the time that keeps ruining the entire world

I mean the whole character arc is the father not letting Vanya/Victor be who she/he wants to be and now her trying to discover what exactly that is. I don't think it's out of character.

But as someone else said, that character just isn't doing it for me. That whole drama between her and Allison was just boring to me this season.

A lot of the other characters and how they play off each other are electric in this show, but every scene with Victor and Allison I found myself wanting to fast forward.

I can see that point of view, but watching it just doesn't give me the impression that that's what they were going for. The whole thing just feels disjointed and like an afterthought. I mean if that's what was supposed to be going on, then by all means play it up and make that a part of the story instead of tiptoeing around it. Her season 2 relationship with Missy was a big plot point and part of her character development. This didn't feel like that at all. If they ached it to be ignorant and contribute, they should have actually had it contribute. Have a scene between Viktor/Vanya and Allison pointing out the change, definitively tying it to Allison's rumoring of Vanya at Reginald's behest and subduing her personality and powers, and contrasting Allison's multitude of personal losses between her daughter and husband with Viktor/Vanya's never having had a real life in the first place. Have them fight it out. Give us come catharsis.

Instead, all we've gotten is Viktor/Vanya's arc going from, "I'm a sad loner with no powers and no place in the family until my crazy boyfriend helps me hone them and turns me into an angry weapon to use against my super siblings," to, "I'm a lesbian transgender and super powered and have completely forgiven my sister and other siblings for causing me a lifetime of misery and just want to be friends with everyone," in a span of like 7-8 weeks in her time. Are we really expected to believe she's completely changed and forgiven Allison (and everyone else) in like a month and a half after trying to kill them all?

And instead of truly including and playing off the change, they just acted like nothing really happened and it was no big deal. If this is Viktor/Vanya finally finding themselves and a core part of their character, that's a big ****ing deal. There should be something there beyond just a haircut and name change that's moved on from immediately. I think maybe it felt half-assed and out of place because it's something you either don't do or you do big, and they decided to do it but do it unobtrusively.



Agree completely on the stuff with Allison. Thought it was very poorly done on many fronts. The writing of some of their scenes was god awful.

I guess for me it just didn't bother me at all and it didn't like take me out of the moment. Seemed fine for Vanya to decide she wanted to be Victor but didn't want the others to make a big deal out of it.

Moving on though, I can't believe the character of Klaus is so good. I was certain I was going to tire of that character early on but I haven't.

Klaus has always been one of my favorites, along with Five. Their dialogue, no matter who it's with, is always great.

That's where this show, like Stranger things, really excels is how well the characters play off of one another.

I think this is especially true of Five and Lila. Their scenes are great.

+1

I think that's why I hated the Viktor/Allison arc. There's 0 chemistry there. When they were looking for the guardians in the hotel and Viktor wanted to hash everything out, that stood out to me as just forced and flat immediately. It was cringeworthy dialogue and delivery for both, and a lot of their scenes felt that way. No one else has had a moment like that in the entire series. Everything else is really, really good, and it just makes those moments so much worse.

My issue with the Victor/Vania thing is NO ONE messed it up unintentionally after they were told. They should at least say Vania, whoops I mean Victor once in awhile.

Haven't finished the season yet but it's odd that Luther seems to be shrinking and much less gorilla like vs the other seasons.

Viktor is more likeable than Vanya who the really didn't do much with….crazy how Allison is hot with one hairdo and looks terrible with this seasons.

Think Lila made the biggest gains this season. Used to hate the character, but she was great.

GoAgs92 said:

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Haven't finished the season yet but it's odd that Luther seems to be shrinking and much less gorilla like vs the other seasons.

Viktor is more likeable than Vanya who the really didn't do much with….crazy how Allison is hot with one hairdo and looks terrible with this seasons.

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Luther seemed pretty big and ape-y until the final episode where Allison/Reginald reconfigured the universe, and Luther was deliberately de-aped.

Ogre09 said:

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Was this Papa's end game, get his wife back?

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Just found this series last month.

Doubtful that's his endgame. It's much bigger than that. You must have missed it but in the 30 second clip we saw panning over the skyline there were about 4 or 5 large buildings bearing his name. Hargreeves Construction, Hargreeves Financial, Hargreeves Productions, and some others I couldn't make out.