1) Walker could be enhanced and either not know it or not admit it publicly

2) That shield could be super light. It's vibranium - the most versatile substance on the planet. We may think it's heavy to lift but it could be 5 lbs and incredibly aerodynamic as far as we know (or the writers need)

It's not so much the throwing it that gives me pause, but the catching.

They are pretty clearly setting the new Captain America up to be the baddy. My guess is he is secretly enhanced and the twist will be that the flag smashers are actually the good guys and the government/captain America is bad.

My guess is that Johnny and "Battlestar" aren't enhanced... yet.

Champ Bailey said:

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imjustsayin said:

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TCTTS said:

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This show is dope.

And unlike anything we've seen in the MCU so far, in that it feels like they're starting to push the envelope in terms of sociopolitical issues, but instead of in an annoying way, for whatever reason, through the lens of the MCU, it feels fresh and exciting here. I know race being "injected" into stuff like this rubs some people here the wrong way, but this is not only a story straight out of the comics (Isaiah Bradley and all), it feels extremely organic to the story and characters itself.

It also makes for GREAT tension with the John Walker character, which I didn't see coming. We obviously knew he'd play a part this season, but I didn't expect it to be this big of a role, and I didn't expect the tension between him and Sam and Bucky to crackle this much. It's just so good. I kept thinking this was going to be a Sam and Bucky at-odds/buddy cop thing - and that's obviously there for sure - but to throw Walker into the mix like this is fantastic and just takes it all to another level.

These episode lengths are just the right amount too. It's the first time watching a Disney+ series, be it Star Wars or Marvel, that I didn't feel short-changed at the end of each episode (as good as some of those episodes were). So, yes, we only have four episodes left, but it's basically eight episodes by previous standards, and I can't wait to see where it all goes.

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This show is dope... agreed. I've enjoyed the fact that they are telling the story in a very realistic and somewhat blurred lines way... cause that's real life. It always drives me crazy when Hollywood takes a social position then tells the story along the clear lines that matches the writers good-guy/bad-guy bias. WRT the racial matters in this show, it doesn't feel like this is some major plot point to preach to the audience about how black folks are all victimized and white folks are all racist idiots. Rather it seems to acknowledge some of the complexities as a side plot, that may over the course of the story carry a naturally and organically heavier load.

I hate watching entertainment that are so clearly propaganda pieces about how this group of people are this and that group of people are that. I think it's dishonest and one-sided and almost never achieves the goal the writer thinks it will.

I have to admit I was a little worried about this direction with the banker in the last episode and the cops this episode... but the casting choice of John walkers girlfriend (?) and sidekick... and even the way the cops back off (rather than doubling down with Sam) and the banker shows favor verbally (although somewhat bafoonishly still doesn't help)... it also touches on how perceptions may influence decisions that folks make even when they are trying to do the right thing (cops desire to create peace while creating chaos, banker giving favorable words but rules he has don't help) , systems in place track on a different path.

I was also afraid they were simply going to make new CA John Walker an easy to dislike character, but one thing marvel does so well is blur the lines and create compelling arcs for the antagonist just as much as for the protagonist. I thought he came off as likable.

Man, that was a lot of words... I hope it wasn't confusing

Simpler: I'm loving the show. I don't typically like the hot-topic propaganda pieces, but this is handling well so far.

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Apparently, the show is still in danger of being racially insensitive.

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/battlestar-marvel-falcon-winter-soldier-sidekick-or-partner/amp


I'm really enjoying it so far. So does the new cap have super powers? I thought he said he didn't have super strength, but then he immediately throws that shield like it was nothing.

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What a vomitous article. Just let people have nice things without having to pull some historical racist undertone out and taint every GD thing we do.

Agree with someone else that I think the new CA and Battlestar are going to wade into baddie territory. Manufactured PR stunts are never on the side of good!

Lots of cool stuff about the super soldiers in that episode.

Very clearly set up JW motivation for getting enhanced. He doesn't want to disappoint people, and he wants to be the hero. Unclear if he already is enhanced, or if he'll do a deal with the power broker once he gets his ass kicked by the flag smasher (that's kind of my guess for the next episode)But what is really clear is that the super soldier program never stoped (which isn't a surprise considering Hulk, WS etc). The US at least occasionally succeeded in making more, and hid it from the public. So from that point of view it makes sense that JW is already enhanced. I mean, he said he didn't have Starks or Banners powers, he didn't say that he didn't have Steve's. Also did the public really even know how cap got his powers?

I think they are also setting up a real contrast with the 1st Captain America movie. Steve was picked not for being physical specimen or a hero. In fact the strong implication is that anyone who wants the power is inherently unworthy of it. So JW motivation will eventually be his undoing. Which is why Sam will ultimately prove himself worthy by refusing the shield.

Also I kind of assumed that Sam kept the real shield and gave the museum a backup (I mean Stark must have had a couple in the garage), but I guess the other option is that JW gets defeated (setting up a period where he is away becoming a bad guy like WS) and then Sam gets it back.

amercer said:

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Lots of cool stuff about the super soldiers in that episode.

Very clearly set up JW motivation for getting enhanced. Unclear if he already is, or if he'll do a deal with the power broker once he gets his ass kicked by the flag smasher. But what is really clear is that the super soldier program never stoped (which isn't a surprise considering Hulk, WS etc). The US at least occasionally succeeded in making more, and hid it from the public. So from that point of view it makes sense that JW is already enhanced. I mean, he said he didn't have Starks or Banners powers, he didn't say that he didn't have Steve's. Also did the public really even know how cap got his powers?

I think they are also setting up a real contrast with the 1st Captain America movie. Steve was picked not for being physical specimen or a hero. In fact the strong implication is that anyone who wants the power is inherently unworthy of it. So JW motivation will eventually be his undoing. Which is why Sam will ultimately prove himself worthy by refusing the shield.

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He specifically said he did not have super strength which would rule out having Steve's powers. So, it's vague right now whether he does or not. His shield proficiency aside, he got overpowered by the Flag Smashers. Just seems conflicting right now with his use of the shield vs what seems to be his mortal physicality compared to the Flag Smashers.

Seems like his powers are at least equivalent to Falcons.

amercer said:

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Also I kind of assumed that Sam kept the real shield and gave the museum a backup (I mean Stark must have had a couple in the garage), but I guess the other option is that JW gets defeated (setting up a period where he is away becoming a bad guy like WS) and then Sam gets it back.

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Im hoping for some sort of televised battle between JW and Sam where the world sees the type of person JW becomes and sees Sam become Capt America in real time.

Philip J Fry said:

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Seems like his powers are at least equivalent to Falcons.

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From a conditioning perspective? Falcon has no powers.

I'm expecting JW to become a gray area character, a la Loki.

Possible we find out this "terrorist" groups motivations aren't all that bad and there is a different villain in the mix but JW goes after this teenage chick either way and Sam/Bucky step in to save her.

The bad guys under attack from other bad guys... interesting turn of events. Either the Flag Smashers aren't so bad, or the Power Broker isn't. And then add Zemo to the mix.

I half expect for Zemo to be not a huge player in this series, but hopefully he gets a decent role.

On the Flag Smashers...Solo girl shared that their vision was to stand up for those left behind and not blipped. With the overnight return of billions of people after five years you have a massive resource problem on your hands and the GRC is apparently focused on the returned to the neglect of the left behind...in this groups view.

And then their chant after revealing their motive was "One World...One People." And then add in the plot line that this cell seems to be an offshoot of Power Brokers group considering the ominous text she got.

So, it seems this splinter group may actually be good or at least not wholly bad like Power Broker and they will ultimately team up with FWS.

They already showed Sam being somewhat sympathetic to their cause in episode one. In then the banter in the truck about "resources" definitely reinforced that not everyone was doing well in the post blip world

Quote:

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I have to admit I was a little worried about this direction with the banker in the last episode and the cops this episode... but the casting choice of John walkers girlfriend (?) and sidekick... and even the way the cops back off (rather than doubling down with Sam) and the banker shows favor verbally (although somewhat bafoonishly still doesn't help)... it also touches on how perceptions may influence decisions that folks make even when they are trying to do the right thing (cops desire to create peace while creating chaos, banker giving favorable words but rules he has don't help) , systems in place track on a different path.

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Agreed, was getting concerned given the direction so many films/shows are going post-2020 in getting too preachy. However, I think they've handled it well overall.

It did seem a bit contradictory in the last episode with Sam's response to the kid calling him 'Black Falcon' and shrugging it off like 'Oh ok, so I'm gonna call you 'black kid'?' (which to me fit the character of Sam we've seen developed since Civil War) to a couple scenes later leaving the house with Bucky saying 'You mean to tell me there was a black super soldier all this time we didn't know about?'.

Seemed a bit forced there, but given all the issues there's trying to pack into this thing...the storyline works well and Anthony Mackie was absolutely made for this role. He doesn't take it too seriously, but can also command the screen. Really talented guy and I hope he becomes one of the prominent characters of the MCU moving forward...as they seem to be taking him.

Sebastian Stan also commands the screen really well to compliment Mackie. Really like what they've done with Bucky and developing his character.

The banter between Sam and Bucky is half the reason I was looking forward to this show and it hasn't disappointed. It just feels like they have to pack a LOT into these next six episodes but hopefully that means we get no filler content and a great storyline that's basically shaping up to be the sequel to Civil War.

I liked the juxtaposition with Sam in that episode. He's trying to be a role model for the kid, but still acknowledging historic and ongoing problems.

YouBet said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Seems like his powers are at least equivalent to Falcons.

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From a conditioning perspective? Falcon has no powers.

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Correct. He's just super fit beyond most average men/women.

I like how when Bucky was hanging on underneath the truck, the red head is stomping on his vibranium arm and he's acting like it hurts. Yet he can deflect bullets and dig his fingers into asphalt at highway speeds just fine.

Really enjoying the show so far! It's got a good mix of cool action sequences and the marvel goofiness

"Who are we fighting now, Gandalf?"
"I read the Hobbit back in 1937, when it first came out"

FightinTexasAg15 said:

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Really enjoying the show so far! It's got a good mix of cool action sequences and the marvel goofiness

"Who are we fighting now, Gandalf?"
"I read the Hobbit back in 1937, when it first came out"

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My nerd self had to point out to my wife during that exchange on the Big 3 of Android, Aliens and Wizards that Sam defined the difference between sorcerers and wizards incorrectly.

I liked this episode better than the first but honestly I would prefer to binge this show than wait each week. With WandaVision, I was hooked. I woke up early every Friday morning to watch the next show. Compared to F&WS, I forgot a new episode even came out yesterday. And after watching today's episode, I'm interested to see where it goes next but not chomping at the bit.

TexasAggie_02 said:

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I like how when Bucky was hanging on underneath the truck, the red head is stomping on his vibranium arm and he's acting like it hurts. Yet he can deflect bullets and dig his fingers into asphalt at highway speeds just fine.

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Also made me think of the truck chase in Raiders as Indy is going under the truck.

The White Panther line cracked me up. Really all the banter from the plane ride through the truck fight was hilarious.

TexasAggie_02 said:

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I like how when Bucky was hanging on underneath the truck, the red head is stomping on his vibranium arm and he's acting like it hurts. Yet he can deflect bullets and dig his fingers into asphalt at highway speeds just fine.

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I have the same reaction when Tony grimaces like he is the one physically exerting himself when all of the force comes from the ironman suit.

I'm rooting for U.S.Agent / John Walker already.

and where is Sharon Carter?

Missed week 1 and just caught up... pull up thread and there are 311 posts since my last check in. Gonna tap out of this one. No way I'm catching up on this thread, lol.

W said:

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I'm rooting for U.S.Agent / John Walker already.

and where is Sharon Carter?

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Should be in the next episode, and all the rest (according to IMDB)

So, I just finished the 1st episode again, and just started the 2nd. Another thing about Walker, when he talks it reminds me of the CGI people in that Final Fantasy movie or Polar Express. His mouth doesn't look natural.

However, I love the marching band intro.

Someone earlier drew the distinction between Steve being a regular Joe who had unwavering commitment and resiliency and Walker, who is basically the prodigal son. I, also won't be surprised if his desire to be the All American leads him off the path. Again, the threat he gave to Bucky and Sam is definitely foreshadowing.

The big guy from the 1st episode that started the money heist and beat the crap out of the American soldier wasn't with the flag smasher group in episode 2. Maybe he's the one texting the chic? By the way, what is the LAF?

Isn't IMDB user - edited line Wikipedia?

I wouldn't go by listing for unaired episodes. It's possible that they originally had her listed on every episode, and then removed her when she wasn't in it.

Of course, now that they are going to Europe, she may show up this episode, since she was with the CIA in Europe during Civil War.

YouBet said:

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FightinTexasAg15 said:

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Really enjoying the show so far! It's got a good mix of cool action sequences and the marvel goofiness

"Who are we fighting now, Gandalf?"
"I read the Hobbit back in 1937, when it first came out"

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My nerd self had to point out to my wife during that exchange on the Big 3 of Android, Aliens and Wizards that Sam defined the difference between sorcerers and wizards incorrectly.

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How do you define Wizard vs Sorcerer? I ask because everyone gets their "nerd canon" from somewhere. Curious if you get your definition from where I get mine.

C@LAg said:

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DallasTeleAg said:

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YouBet said:

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FightinTexasAg15 said:

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Really enjoying the show so far! It's got a good mix of cool action sequences and the marvel goofiness

"Who are we fighting now, Gandalf?"
"I read the Hobbit back in 1937, when it first came out"

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My nerd self had to point out to my wife during that exchange on the Big 3 of Android, Aliens and Wizards that Sam defined the difference between sorcerers and wizards incorrectly.

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How do you define Wizard vs Sorcerer? I ask because everyone gets their "nerd canon" from somewhere. Curious if you get your definition from where I get mine.

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Typically and traditionally, wizards are "good" and sorcerers are "evil"
Wizards tend to get their magic through learning and training, sorcerers get theirs through sacrifice, deals with evil entities, cursed items, or inheritance.

Popular culture has muddied the water a bit by using these terms interchangeably.

e.g. Doctor Strange is more a wizard/warlock combo, with a small amount of sorcerer.
And some parts of the Harry Potter universe would be sorcerers vs wizards (but they went with Dark Wizard instead).

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Pretty much this.

Since the power broker is mentioned, I have to wonder if Walker will seek him out to gain powers like the flag smashers and it drives him down a dark path. I do like him but Sam is getting that shield back at some point and I think it means he will have a fall from grace

Why do people like Walker? At least based on this episode, he seems arrogant and cocky. Doesn't pull it off like Tony

Ah. Then I would disagree, good sir!