The Debt said:

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bluefire579 said:

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The Debt said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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On top of that, it adds multiple layers to the story that the protagonists must contend with. Plus, who doesn't love watching racists get exactly what they deserve?

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Never gets tiring seeing white people depicted as perpetual bigots.

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Never gets tiring seeing folks get upset about people being portrayed as bigots in a time where bigotry was literally codified into law.

If it makes you that uncomfortable and you'd rather watch whatever whitewashed Leave It to Beaver version of the fifties you still cling to, then fine. Stop polluting this thread with your posts and let people who actually want to discuss the show talk about it.

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Thanks for conceding they cant come up with unique ideas (racism.) You are really advancing this thread quite well with your strawmen and dull wit.

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It's telling a story in the 1950s. Are you saying racism wasn't prevalent in the 1950s? Why do you want them to white-wash that from the show? Why would they need to come up with a "unique idea" on how to present racism?

I don't mean to be rude, but your post doesn't make much sense.

The Debt said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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On top of that, it adds multiple layers to the story that the protagonists must contend with. Plus, who doesn't love watching racists get exactly what they deserve?

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Never gets tiring seeing white people depicted as perpetual bigots.

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I will never, ever understand this take, one that is so weirdly prevalent on this site. If racist bigots being portrayed as racist bigots annoys you, you might want to take a good, long look in the mirror. "White racists suck" is not the same thing as "white people suck." I can only conclude that those who can't comprehend that distinction either have a guilty conscience, or are simply looking to be offended. There's really no other answer.

Aggie4242 said:

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The Debt said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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On top of that, it adds multiple layers to the story that the protagonists must contend with. Plus, who doesn't love watching racists get exactly what they deserve?

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Never gets tiring seeing white people depicted as perpetual bigots.

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Are you saying there were no bigots in the 1950s?

Since you are commenting in the thread, you must have watched the show.

So, can you tell me, specifically, which parts of the show you disagreed with?

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Sure there were bigots in the 1950's. There are bigots in 2020's and 2850's too. And they exists within every.single.color.

My point is that if you make a period project, its seems like a requirement to add racism to the story. For 13% of the population, racial strife is a neccessary component to any.fking.thing set in the past. It's boring at best, and boorish at worst.

It's like producers get some IP and say "gee you know what this needs? an angle of racial commentary" and they all high five each other for being so brilliant.

It's not clever. And because they make it obvious, there is no subtlety. Take Enemy Mine, for instance, it is a story about racial enemies becoming friends. They didnt need to put the bigoted humans in grand wizard robes or make them space nazis to drive home the point.

TCTTS said:

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The Debt said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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On top of that, it adds multiple layers to the story that the protagonists must contend with. Plus, who doesn't love watching racists get exactly what they deserve?

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Never gets tiring seeing white people depicted as perpetual bigots.

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I will never, ever understand this take, one that is so weirdly prevalent on this site. If racist bigots being portrayed as racist bigots annoys you, you might want to take a good, long look in the mirror. "White racists suck" is not the same thing as "white people suck." I can only conclude that those who can't comprehend that distinction either have a guilty conscience, or are simply looking to be offended. There's really no other answer.

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Ah yes, the projection theory.

Or maybe I'm just tired of Hollywood portraying any white person of with power as racist villain. It truly is an unimaginative trope that makes the villainy exceedingly one dimensional.

"Hey guys there is a villain that hates people because of their race" "wow, that's incredibly deep and complex screenwriting" "yea man, because we all hate racism so much, there is totally no need to try and make the villain sympathetic or arc his story"

Aggie4242 said:

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Finally got a chance to watch. Thought it was great!

I disagree with the comments folks have made about the racism being over the top, or too much. Racism to the degree shown happened. Sundown towns were real things and signs telling African-Americans to not let the sunset on them in those cities existed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/the-roots-of-route-66/506255/

African-Americans were treated as unequal citizens and I prefer this realism to the white-washed nostalgia normally presented of that time period. You can't have a show with African-American main characters, set in this time period, and not display the racism that they were forced to endure.

On top of that, it adds multiple layers to the story that the protagonists must contend with. Plus, who doesn't love watching racists get exactly what they deserve?

Soundtrack was great too and they don't make cars like they used to.

Looking forward to the next episode.

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Makes sense when judged in the context of that period.

The problem some people have with this is the incessant, nonstop message of racism right now. We get it already. Beating white people over the head with an issue we had nothing to do with is tiresome now.

Would probably have enjoyed this five years ago (and maybe I still will since I haven't watched it yet), but I think it's absolutely a valid position for folks to take that they are tired of being made to be evil.

Considering the production time to make a film we are probably just seeing the initial wave of social justice movies as well. Vomit. My guess is we are about to be bombarded by the evils of white men in the coming 2-3 years on the film front.

Have you seen the episode? In the context of what aired, your complaints make no sense. It comes across like you are angry that the show portrayed African-Americans experiencing racism in the 1950s.

Again, which parts of the show, specifically, don't you agree with?

Also, have you read the book or know anything about this IP? Because if you think HBO added the racial issues to the story you would be wildly incorrect.

Why would any white person assume the show is calling them racist, just because it depicts people I. The 1950s being racist?

I'm white and I watch this show and can appreciate the history they are portraying, while also enjoy watching bad things happen to racists.

Why would people assume that because the show is calling some white people racist that it is calling all white people racist.

I mean, you aren't racist, right? I'm assuming the answer is no, so why would it be a negative to you to see a tv show depicting some whites as racist?

Aggie4242 said:

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Why would any white person assume the show is calling them racist, just because it depicts people I. The 1950s being racist?

I'm white and I watch this show and can appreciate the history they are portraying, while also enjoy watching bad things happen to racists.

Why would people assume that because the show is calling some white people racist that it is calling all white people racist.

I mean, you aren't racist, right? I'm assuming the answer is no, so why would it be a negative to you to see a tv show depicting some whites as racist?

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Basically my question above. And The Debt responded with: "Or maybe I'm just tired of Hollywood portraying any white person of power as racist villain." Which is such a ridiculous statement, I don't even know where to start. Really, "any white person of power" is always portrayed as a racist villain? Seriously? People like The Debt can only use blanket statements and strawmen to back their arguments, otherwise they'd be forced to admit what we all know... they're just looking to be offended. The proof is in their incessant need to post in threads like this about shows and movies they haven't seen and refuse to watch.

YouBet said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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Finally got a chance to watch. Thought it was great!

I disagree with the comments folks have made about the racism being over the top, or too much. Racism to the degree shown happened. Sundown towns were real things and signs telling African-Americans to not let the sunset on them in those cities existed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/the-roots-of-route-66/506255/

African-Americans were treated as unequal citizens and I prefer this realism to the white-washed nostalgia normally presented of that time period. You can't have a show with African-American main characters, set in this time period, and not display the racism that they were forced to endure.

On top of that, it adds multiple layers to the story that the protagonists must contend with. Plus, who doesn't love watching racists get exactly what they deserve?

Soundtrack was great too and they don't make cars like they used to.

Looking forward to the next episode.

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Makes sense when judged in the context of that period.

The problem some people have with this is the incessant, nonstop message of racism right now. We get it already. Beating white people over the head with an issue we had nothing to do with is tiresome now.

Would probably have enjoyed this five years ago (and maybe I still will since I haven't watched it yet), but I think it's absolutely a valid position for folks to take that they are tired of being made to be evil.

Considering the production time to make a film we are probably just seeing the initial wave of social justice movies as well. Vomit. My guess is we are about to be bombarded by the evils of white men in the coming 2-3 years on the film front.

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Again, I totally get being tired of racially themed content right now. It's... a lot. No question. But your argument supposes that shows likes this are made by black people as a means to "message" to white people. As if this is made to clap back at you or me, make us feel white guilt, etc. But what if it's not about us? What if, in certain instances, the act of making shows like this is more of a catharsis by black people for black people? I'm not saying black people are the only intended audience - that's clearly not the case - but why are the white people who constantly complain about racially charged content always inserting themselves as the default audience member? I'm just saying, try to see things like this from another perspective.

Aggie4242 said:

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Why would any white person assume the show is calling them racist, just because it depicts people I. The 1950s being racist?

I'm white and I watch this show and can appreciate the history they are portraying, while also enjoy watching bad things happen to racists.

Why would people assume that because the show is calling some white people racist that it is calling all white people racist.

I mean, you aren't racist, right? I'm assuming the answer is no, so why would it be a negative to you to see a tv show depicting some whites as racist?

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I think you are glossing over my point. I can absolutely appreciate the history here. Could be totally innocent timing, but my point is that in our current environment it should be understandable why some people are immediately turned off by the subject matter, fair or not.

You can't watch the news without racism being the main topic. I can't turn on any streaming service without being asked or influenced to watch and support black people over all other races. LinkedIn is now pushing black people over all others in my "people I should be following" section. It's just tiring and pure propaganda now. It's simply over saturation at this point.

So, the current and coming onslaught of movies and shows smacking us all upside the head about racism is going to naturally turn people off. I'm still going to check this out because I love sci-fi / horror stuff and it does sound like it has that.

Why would that bother you?

For example, did you get tired of the movies/tv shows that always portrayed Muslims as terrorists in the early 2000's? Have you ever gotten tired of World War II movies that portray either Nazi's or the Japanese as the bad guys?

Why would movies and TV shows that discuss racism openly and honestly bother anybody? This doesn't make any sense, especially if you aren't racist.

Also, why do you think it is propaganda? What is the agenda you think is being pushed? It can't be that, "all white people are bad" as that has already been addressed.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that so many white folks think that the history of racism in America isn't really a big deal because they have never directly been negatively affected by it. African-Americans, on the other hand, have experienced racism in America since it's founding.

Now that mainstream entertainment is more accepting of African-Americans (and other minorities) telling stories about their experiences it creates a large amount of push back from certain people because it challenges everything they think they know about race in America. I have also read/heard a lot of comments from a variety of folks (on and off this website) that African-Americans should just, "get over" slavery/racism because it happened "so long ago".

I think it is great that there are more shows that address this type of material because, and let's be honest here, it really is a drop in the bucket in the amount of content being produced and distributed. Not only right now, but also over the last 200 years.

African-Americans make up at least 14% of the population (as of 2010, so it is probably a few percentage points higher now) and I am willing to bet that 14% of the TV shows/Movies made don't have an African-American perspective as the main driver of its story.

My bottom-line: I enjoy stories that present a perspective that I don't live with everyday. I think there should be more African-American centric entertainment out there.

Wait a second...you mean to tell me that art made by one group of people might be interpreted/appreciated differently by people inside and outside that demographic?

That is just crazy talk.

Either way I long for simple entertainment that doesn't rely on social or political commentary like X-Men, Rambo, Star Wars, and Harry potter

Aggie4242 said:

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Why would that bother you?

For example, did you get tired of the movies/tv shows that always portrayed Muslims as terrorists in the early 2000's? Have you ever gotten tired of World War II movies that portray either Nazi's or the Japanese as the bad guys?

Why would movies and TV shows that discuss racism openly and honestly bother anybody? This doesn't make any sense, especially if you aren't racist.

Also, why do you think it is propaganda? What is the agenda you think is being pushed? It can't be that, "all white people are bad" as that has already been addressed.

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I'm not bothered by programs that discuss and address racism. Watched many a show over the years dealing with it and am avid sci-fi reader which has always been on the vanguard of pushing social boundaries and addressing racism.

Still think you are missing my point. We are overtly and actively promoting and pushing one racial groups life over all others. And fair or not this messaging has been bundled, co-opted, corrupted, whatever... with anti-white propaganda and largely started and amplified by a known radical, Marxist organization. That is problematic for many reasons that shouldn't have to be explained.

So, within that context of our current environment these kinds of movies will be a turnoff to some for no other reason than "here we go again" and has nothing to do with white people being racist.

Regardless, I will try and check out the pilot this weekend. Always fascinated by the Cthulhu mythos.

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We are overtly and actively promoting and pushing one racial groups life over all others.

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Nonsense

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Still think you are missing my point. We are overtly and actively promoting and pushing one racial groups life over all others. And fair or not this messaging has been bundled, co-opted, corrupted, whatever... with anti-white propaganda and largely started and amplified by a known radical, Marxist organization. That is problematic for many reasons that shouldn't have to be explained.

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You keep saying this, but you have yet to explain it adequately. Further, if you truly believe this, then you must agree that all of the White-centric movies/tv shows that have been produced for the last 100 years are, " overtly and actively promoting and pushing one racial groups life over all others."

Why are you ok with the white race doing this, but bothered when another race is put in the spotlight?

Staff, why is this type of overtly racist rant allowed on this thread? It adds nothing to the discussion and doesn't even address the topic at hand.

[That post was up for thirteen minutes and had no objections when you made this post and included the offending post which added another post that needed to be edited. If posters would use the voting function that is provided and alert us to those posts it would make it a lot easier for us to remove them and it is more effective than making a post that complains about them and it would be easier to clean up. -Staff]

Appreciate the response! I did upvote and thank you for taking care of it.

Horrible people have done some horrible things. Showing them getting their comeuppance doesn't bother me. I don't care if it's Hitler or Tex Watson in a Tarantino fantasy or anything else. The question should always be "is it good?"

Duncan Idaho said:

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We are overtly and actively promoting and pushing one racial groups life over all others.

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Nonsense

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It's really not. Social, media, and entertainment platforms literally are. I've already given examples.

Aggie4242 said:

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Also, just to add one thing (so it doesn't get lost in my edit). To your statement about promoting one race over another, do you know how many Africa -Americans have won Oscars?

39

https://www.essence.com/celebrity/way-too-short-list-black-oscar-winners/

That's it.

I just wanted to present that information so you could help me understand why it has been ok to push "White culture" over the last one hundred plus years, but it's not ok when another race does.

Edit- had bad info, corrected it.

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Oscar winners kind of irrelevant to the point at hand but it's certainly ok to push non-white races. Zero issues with that. The issue at hand is pushing a message of "white man bad".

And I'm not remotely saying this movie with its time period is wrong or not relevant. I'm merely trying to present a viewpoint others have.it could be seen as one more shot at white people in context of current environment regardless of intent.

Let's all move on though. I think we've all made our points and I try my best to adhere to local board customs. When in Rome if you will.

As we've been reiterating from the jump, literally no one is saying "white man bad." Not this show. Not Lindelof's Watchmen. Not any content of this ilk that I can think of.

"White racist bad" does not equal "White man bad."

It's like you're being purposely obtuse to that fact.

YouBet said:

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Aggie4242 said:

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Also, just to add one thing (so it doesn't get lost in my edit). To your statement about promoting one race over another, do you know how many Africa -Americans have won Oscars?

39

https://www.essence.com/celebrity/way-too-short-list-black-oscar-winners/

That's it.

I just wanted to present that information so you could help me understand why it has been ok to push "White culture" over the last one hundred plus years, but it's not ok when another race does.

Edit- had bad info, corrected it.

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Oscar winners kind of irrelevant to the point at hand but it's certainly ok to push non-white races. Zero issues with that. The issue at hand is pushing a message of "white man bad".

And I'm not remotely saying this movie with its time period is wrong or not relevant. I'm merely trying to present a viewpoint others have.it could be seen as one more shot at white people in context of current environment regardless of intent.

Let's all move on though. I think we've all made our points and I try my best to adhere to local board customs. When in Rome if you will.

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It's actually not irrelevant and this article explains why:

https://www.ft.com/content/ca2e8368-48e6-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

Also, you haven't shown that this show is saying "white man bad" , which makes me wonder the following:

Why are you not making the same assumptions about white-centric entertainment as you are about African-American centric entertainment? Why do you assume that AA entertainment is saying "all white people are bad"?

I don't mean to be rude (and in all honesty, your position fascinates me), but you haven't made any logical points in this conversation.

Went into the first episode completely blind and loved how crazy it got. For sure looking forward to the rest of the series.

So I just came here to say I just watched and really enjoyed the pilot...yikes.

From my buddy that works at a pre viz studio in LA:

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And now I know why I walked by a desk one day and saw Jackie Robinson hit an alien with a bat.

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TCTTS said:

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As we've been reiterating from the jump, literally no one is saying "white man bad." Not this show. Not Lindelof's Watchmen. Not any content of this ilk that I can think of.

"White racist bad" does not equal "White man bad."

It's like you're being purposely obtuse to that fact.

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Ok. I've made my point.