Or was the decision to engage and destroy so as to prevent attacks on trailing GI's correct?
Dammit. Ignore that first "have".
Dammit. Ignore that first "have".
Too bad it wasn't Upham...JABQ04 said:
Why didn't he skirt around the nest and hit it from behind (that's what she said!). Frontal assault on an entrenched enemy with an MG42 wasn't a smart decision. Also didn't have the 3-1 superiority you'd like in an offensive situation. Especially when two (Wade and Upham) are essentially useless in an offensive manner.
Right call IMO but horrible horrible execution. Lucky he only took one KIA.
One KIA when you only have 7 guys (6 if you count Upham) is sort of a big deal. He could have them all killed, thereby failing his real mission. There were tanks and stuff a mile behind them, why not let those guys take care of it? That was their job, he should have done his.JABQ04 said:
Why didn't he skirt around the nest and hit it from behind (that's what she said!). Frontal assault on an entrenched enemy with an MG42 wasn't a smart decision. Also didn't have the 3-1 superiority you'd like in an offensive situation. Especially when two (Wade and Upham) are essentially useless in an offensive manner.
Right call IMO but horrible horrible execution. Lucky he only took one KIA.
I thought it was terrible.Urban Ag said:
And it could have easily been much worse than losing just one guy. Uphill against a fixed position with little cover.
One other thing I forgot. The reaction to Wade's death caused Reiben to threaten to desert, Horvath to threaten to execute him for not following orders, and Miller to finally share with them what he does back home. Miller than has a brief emotional breakdown. At this point Spielberg wants your guts to be churning. He wants you uncomfortable.
That whole sequence, IMO, is one of the best in the film and drives home the feeling of loss, hopelessness, and just how homesick these guys are. It's brilliant.
aTmAg said:One KIA when you only have 7 guys (6 if you count Upham) is sort of a big deal. He could have them all killed, thereby failing his real mission. There were tanks and stuff a mile behind them, why not let those guys take care of it? That was their job, he should have done his.JABQ04 said:
Why didn't he skirt around the nest and hit it from behind (that's what she said!). Frontal assault on an entrenched enemy with an MG42 wasn't a smart decision. Also didn't have the 3-1 superiority you'd like in an offensive situation. Especially when two (Wade and Upham) are essentially useless in an offensive manner.
Right call IMO but horrible horrible execution. Lucky he only took one KIA.
Since you were in the military, I will defer to you.JABQ04 said:aTmAg said:One KIA when you only have 7 guys (6 if you count Upham) is sort of a big deal. He could have them all killed, thereby failing his real mission. There were tanks and stuff a mile behind them, why not let those guys take care of it? That was their job, he should have done his.JABQ04 said:
Why didn't he skirt around the nest and hit it from behind (that's what she said!). Frontal assault on an entrenched enemy with an MG42 wasn't a smart decision. Also didn't have the 3-1 superiority you'd like in an offensive situation. Especially when two (Wade and Upham) are essentially useless in an offensive manner.
Right call IMO but horrible horrible execution. Lucky he only took one KIA.
Not sure what your saying. Losing 1/6 or 1/7 (and the medic of all things) brings your combat effectiveness down drastically. I was just saying he got off relatively light for his horrible tactical decision by only losing one dude. I love to discuss tactics but won't do it here but I will leave it at this: neutralizing the MG best was a good call. After all their assembly point for this whole shin dig is in the middle of a dead patrol (who presumably was KIA by the same MG but luckily CPT Miller and Co aren't spotted and this can open a whole other discussion). Tons of open space to either flank of the MG nest to maneuver and you have a good sniper. Straight up bum rushing the position from several hundred yards away was a dumb decision for an officer and and NCO who have been in combat since 1942.
On your other point about arguing a few posts later, he'll yeah it happens. It happened in 1944 and it happens today. I've done it. Not saying it's right but I've gotten into it with superiors. Back to WWII tons of troops deserted. Partying it up in France with wine and woman was a lot more appealing than fighting the Wehrmacht. I'll have to dig up the title but there's a fairly new book about a just this and the thousands of deserters avoiding front line action.
Just to make sure it's clear what I am saying... I agree that a Cpt. Miller would do whatever it takes to defuse the situation. I just think what the writers conjured up to have him do so was lame and wouldn't work in a real situation.JABQ04 said:
Whatever it takes to defuse the situation I guess. Not knowing Miller's background was kind of plot point so it worked.
Duncan Idaho said:
This was a bad movie that did significant harm to the social fabric of America
(Now that is a hot take)
Mabel Choate said:Duncan Idaho said:
This was a bad movie that did significant harm to the social fabric of America
(Now that is a hot take)
You need to at least have the balls to explain that take
Quote:
However, I will ask you this, if you were intent on deserting, would your superior officer telling you that he was a teacher make you decide, "you know what? I'm not going to desert afterall!"
There was a lot more to what Cpt Miller said than just revealing his past.aTmAg said:Just to make sure it's clear what I am saying... I agree that a Cpt. Miller would do whatever it takes to defuse the situation. I just think what the writers conjured up to have him do so was lame and wouldn't work in a real situation.JABQ04 said:
Whatever it takes to defuse the situation I guess. Not knowing Miller's background was kind of plot point so it worked.
If I was pissed off enough at watching my friend die (in what I thought was a pointless mission), that I would desert, I in no way would change my mind merely because I was told my captains previous occupation. Being told, I would be court martialed and hung, that I would be an embarrassment to my family, or just having my ass kicked by my sergeant, etc. would probably do it. All that being told "I am a teacher" would do is make me say, "so the F what? You expect me to risk my life now because I found out you are a teacher?"
I just don't buy it.
But it's just a movie and my opinion. Not gospel or anything.