Star Wars Rewatch Project: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
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Last: 4 yr ago by Atreides Ornithopter
The only reason I rewatched this was because we were watching all the movies with my daughter. I disliked this one so much I wasn't interested in rewatching even when it came to Netflix.
That said, knowing when you were entering bad parts on the rewatch let me enjoy the non-bad parts more than the first watch.
I am still disappointed they killed off Snoke as I wanted to knows more about him and his power, however if they keep Kylo going more dark I can deal with that.
That said, knowing when you were entering bad parts on the rewatch let me enjoy the non-bad parts more than the first watch.
I am still disappointed they killed off Snoke as I wanted to knows more about him and his power, however if they keep Kylo going more dark I can deal with that.
Quote:
The issue is this movie seems to have missed the fact that it was supposed to be part of a trilogy.
In agreement there. In a vacuum, I thought Luke's death was handled really, really well. But it should have come in IX, not in VIII. There was absolutely no reason to kill him in essentially the very same movie he was reintroduced. Leia should have been the one to go kamikaze light speed and Luke should have lived for one more movie. Made the whole sequel trilogy feel off in that sense.
ATM1876 said:
I got to take my two nephews to separate showings of this one when they came to visit over Christmas. Ever since then, anytime anything remotely Star Wars related comes up, I bring up this movie. I first talk about how Kylo was such a ****head when he was younger that his uncle wanted to murder him in his sleep and then end with how Luke totally made his nephew look like a fool in front of everybody by outsmarting him with his force projection thing. It's completely obnoxious but since it validates the superiority of the uncle in the uncle-nephew relationship it's a lot of fun for me, especially since it annoys them to no end. For that reason alone, I enjoyed the movie, even if I'm in no hurry to watch it again.
This is hilarious, and now I can't wait 'til my nephews are old enough to watch this so I can pull the very same thing.
watching this scene in a Theater full of fans on opening night is a great memory, you could hear the gasps of kids and adults alike.Brian Earl Spilner said:
It would've been more accurate for me to say speculation, not legit rumor/leak. My bad. I'm referring to the popular speculation that there will be time travel in TROS. That prediction has convincing evidence, at least to me. And I don't think it and SW mix together at all, hence me calling TROS schlocky if it does have that in there.TCTTS said:Render said:
At least TLJ will give us TROS, a movie that, if the rumors are true, will be a glorious schlock mess. At least then I can enjoy it ironically.
What rumors? There was an erroneous report about reshoots, but that amounted to nothing. Otherwise, I haven't heard a single rumor good or bad about TROS, in terms of quality.
The "popular speculation" has been on this board almost exclusively, though, and no one really believes it.
That speculation is/was all over YouTube and Reddit. That's where I first heard it. I didn't know this board had extensively discussed it.
I liked Finn's "rebel scum" line.
A most curious statement given what this board generally thinks of some of the Star Wars movies.Quote:
There's some really good stuff in this movie that shouldn't be wholly discounted because of the bad.
If it hasn't been mentioned.....
WATCH THE DELTED SCENES ON THE DVD
There's some damn good stuff there that I wish would have been added to the film and gotten rid of all the dumb canto bite garbage.
Loved this lesson here:
I can't find the other scene on YouTube......but there's a great sequence showing more of them sneaking onto Snokes ship and while in an elevator a random storm trooper recognizes Finn and creates a lot of tension.
That whole idea of Finn using more of his intimate knowledge of the first Order to accomplish their goal and overcome unexpected obstacles could have been SO DAMN COOL and been much better than anything in canto bite
Just make the code breaker Rose or some other rebel and be done with it.
WATCH THE DELTED SCENES ON THE DVD
There's some damn good stuff there that I wish would have been added to the film and gotten rid of all the dumb canto bite garbage.
Loved this lesson here:
I can't find the other scene on YouTube......but there's a great sequence showing more of them sneaking onto Snokes ship and while in an elevator a random storm trooper recognizes Finn and creates a lot of tension.
That whole idea of Finn using more of his intimate knowledge of the first Order to accomplish their goal and overcome unexpected obstacles could have been SO DAMN COOL and been much better than anything in canto bite
Just make the code breaker Rose or some other rebel and be done with it.
Thanks for setting these up as always. I missed the opportunity to post in the last two threads because I was trying to adjust to life with a newborn who doesn't care about Star Wars just yet.
It took me a little while to realize that just because the Rotten Tomato scores on TLJ are in complete opposite ends of the spectrum, doesn't mean I had to either love or hate this movie. I know that sounds silly, but it took me about six months after this one came out to just realize, "Oh. This movie is fine." Not excellent, like the original OT, and not the worst of the franchise either for me. So just real quick here's my thoughts on it.
What I Like:
Even if you hate this movie, you have to admit there are some really great moments in it. The light speed kamikaze as already mentioned is just a fantastic theater experience. I couldn't care any less about the poor choreography of the Snoke guard fight, it is beautiful and fun to watch. The Falcon's flight through Crait is awesome, and for whatever reason I enjoy it even more because Chewie is the pilot. That makes me happy for some reason. I enjoy Luke's force projection fight with Kylo.
Speaking of, I like what Rian did with Luke. I know that's unpopular around here and I'm fine with it. The lessons on failures and how we deal with them was good, even if Endgame came out a year and a half later and did it better. The time with Rey on the island is kind of a mess, but there's also a lot of good there too. Not all of the humor in this movie lands but I enjoy the back and forth between these two. I still laugh at the lightsaber toss at the beginning. Sue me.
Adam Driver's performance is phenomenal. Easily the best in the movie. The surprise killing of Snoke, the desperate urge to bring Rey to his side, so good.
It really does look incredible in my opinion. Canto Bight looks a little too prequel-ly for my taste, but the space sequences, Ahch-To, Crait, etc. all look really good.
John Williams score of course.
What I Don't Like:
The same things most of you don't like. Finn and Rose's story line is pretty rough. I appreciate the end result (getting Finn to care about the Resistance for unselfish reasons, and the acknowledgement of a whole different side of the galaxy profiting off the war) but the journey is meh.
The power struggle between Holdo/Poe/Leia is messier than it needs to be. It's a shame too, because I love Laura Dern, but cutting her out makes it a much more interesting story. Or Abrams could have killed off Poe in TFA like he'd planned, and then Rian wouldn't have to have dealt with it. I also love Oscar Isaacs but there is just not enough room for him when you're trying to tell Rey, Luke, Kylo, and Finn and Rose's story, and give them all "hero/big" moments. I think JJ will be able to use him much better in IX at least.
Favorite Tracks:
The Battle of Crait
The Last Jedi
The Spark
Honorable Mention: Sacred Jedi Text, Canto Bight (bad plot with fun music)
Overall, for me, the good outweighs the bad almost two years later and I'm glad to see most people here so far can find something nice to say, no matter how bad it hurts. It's a lot of good ideas that aren't always executed well but leads to a third act that I think is really good.
Final Rankings*:
*Worth noting that I have TLJ, TFA, and RotS rated about the same, and you could probably convince me to switch any of them around between those three spots.
Looking forward to the Mandalorian, Rise of Skywalker, and your next thread, because I am of the opinion that some Star Wars is always better than no Star Wars at all.
It took me a little while to realize that just because the Rotten Tomato scores on TLJ are in complete opposite ends of the spectrum, doesn't mean I had to either love or hate this movie. I know that sounds silly, but it took me about six months after this one came out to just realize, "Oh. This movie is fine." Not excellent, like the original OT, and not the worst of the franchise either for me. So just real quick here's my thoughts on it.
What I Like:
Even if you hate this movie, you have to admit there are some really great moments in it. The light speed kamikaze as already mentioned is just a fantastic theater experience. I couldn't care any less about the poor choreography of the Snoke guard fight, it is beautiful and fun to watch. The Falcon's flight through Crait is awesome, and for whatever reason I enjoy it even more because Chewie is the pilot. That makes me happy for some reason. I enjoy Luke's force projection fight with Kylo.
Speaking of, I like what Rian did with Luke. I know that's unpopular around here and I'm fine with it. The lessons on failures and how we deal with them was good, even if Endgame came out a year and a half later and did it better. The time with Rey on the island is kind of a mess, but there's also a lot of good there too. Not all of the humor in this movie lands but I enjoy the back and forth between these two. I still laugh at the lightsaber toss at the beginning. Sue me.
Adam Driver's performance is phenomenal. Easily the best in the movie. The surprise killing of Snoke, the desperate urge to bring Rey to his side, so good.
It really does look incredible in my opinion. Canto Bight looks a little too prequel-ly for my taste, but the space sequences, Ahch-To, Crait, etc. all look really good.
John Williams score of course.
What I Don't Like:
The same things most of you don't like. Finn and Rose's story line is pretty rough. I appreciate the end result (getting Finn to care about the Resistance for unselfish reasons, and the acknowledgement of a whole different side of the galaxy profiting off the war) but the journey is meh.
The power struggle between Holdo/Poe/Leia is messier than it needs to be. It's a shame too, because I love Laura Dern, but cutting her out makes it a much more interesting story. Or Abrams could have killed off Poe in TFA like he'd planned, and then Rian wouldn't have to have dealt with it. I also love Oscar Isaacs but there is just not enough room for him when you're trying to tell Rey, Luke, Kylo, and Finn and Rose's story, and give them all "hero/big" moments. I think JJ will be able to use him much better in IX at least.
Favorite Tracks:
The Battle of Crait
The Last Jedi
The Spark
Honorable Mention: Sacred Jedi Text, Canto Bight (bad plot with fun music)
Overall, for me, the good outweighs the bad almost two years later and I'm glad to see most people here so far can find something nice to say, no matter how bad it hurts. It's a lot of good ideas that aren't always executed well but leads to a third act that I think is really good.
Final Rankings*:
*Worth noting that I have TLJ, TFA, and RotS rated about the same, and you could probably convince me to switch any of them around between those three spots.
Looking forward to the Mandalorian, Rise of Skywalker, and your next thread, because I am of the opinion that some Star Wars is always better than no Star Wars at all.
i think it's the obvious liberal messaging that just ruins it.
Hollywood is doing that too deep in these movies( see Incredibles 2 which I saw and liked but ugh you can see it so clearly... Cars 3 too)
Hollywood is doing that too deep in these movies( see Incredibles 2 which I saw and liked but ugh you can see it so clearly... Cars 3 too)
I always thought they should have left out rose, canto bite, and the new rebel leader lady and instead had Poe and Finn lead a squad of saboteurs into Snoke's ship to run around fighting Snoke's forces and using Finn's knowledge of First Order tech to sabotage different aspects of the ship (like engines, then guns, etc.)
Rey could still train with Luke, appear on Snoke's ship when she does, and Leia could lead the lightspeed kamakazi. Everyone could still flee to Crait at the end for the final showdown.
Canto Bite, Rose, and Poe's moronic conflict with Laura Dern were the most annoying parts of this movie to me.
Rey could still train with Luke, appear on Snoke's ship when she does, and Leia could lead the lightspeed kamakazi. Everyone could still flee to Crait at the end for the final showdown.
Canto Bite, Rose, and Poe's moronic conflict with Laura Dern were the most annoying parts of this movie to me.
Thanks and gig'em
That would have been a much better movie.Aggie_Journalist said:
I always thought they should have left out rose, canto bite, and the new rebel leader lady and instead had Poe and Finn lead a squad of saboteurs into Snoke's ship to run around fighting Snoke's forces and using Finn's knowledge of First Order tech to sabotage different aspects of the ship (like engines, then guns, etc.)
Rey could still train with Luke, appear on Snoke's ship when she does, and Leia could lead the lightspeed kamakazi. Everyone could still flee to Crait at the end for the final showdown.
Canto Bite, Rose, and Poe's moronic conflict with Laura Dern were the most annoying parts of this movie to me.
dont want to derail here...but what was liberal about Incredibles 2? I'm a pretty conservative guy and didn't see anything like that at all.nosoupforyou said:
i think it's the obvious liberal messaging that just ruins it.
Hollywood is doing that too deep in these movies( see Incredibles 2 which I saw and liked but ugh you can see it so clearly... Cars 3 too)
I'm assuming you're referring to Mr Incredible having to be the stay at home dad and Elastic Girl "going to work?"
no - that's just the story line - just like Mr. Mom- it's the way the characters were - Void, and others.. I felt like it just didn't work and something was off...jokershady said:dont want to derail here...but what was liberal about Incredibles 2? I'm a pretty conservative guy and didn't see anything like that at all.nosoupforyou said:
i think it's the obvious liberal messaging that just ruins it.
Hollywood is doing that too deep in these movies( see Incredibles 2 which I saw and liked but ugh you can see it so clearly... Cars 3 too)
I'm assuming you're referring to Mr Incredible having to be the stay at home dad and Elastic Girl "going to work?"
then I watched the behind the scenes stuff and the writers were very left leaning and talked about how they wanted to push agenda and ideology into the characters to make it more relevant for 2019
Enjoyed the movie but it was clearly done in context of the numerous other movies and shows putting women front and center as the protagonist all at the same time.jokershady said:dont want to derail here...but what was liberal about Incredibles 2? I'm a pretty conservative guy and didn't see anything like that at all.nosoupforyou said:
i think it's the obvious liberal messaging that just ruins it.
Hollywood is doing that too deep in these movies( see Incredibles 2 which I saw and liked but ugh you can see it so clearly... Cars 3 too)
I'm assuming you're referring to Mr Incredible having to be the stay at home dad and Elastic Girl "going to work?"
Remember, Hollywood players announced at the Oscars two times ago that they were going to deliberately do this type of casting from there on out.
The Last Jedi is the most frustrating of all Star Wars movies because there is a good story that was just horribly told. The parts I like, I really like, but the parts I don't like are some of the worst moments of the entire franchise. I was incredibly disappointed with what they did to Luke's character and the Super-Man Leia replaced Jar Jar as the dumbest thing in Star Wars. I'll put this above Attack of the Clones and maybe Solo, but that's it.
Rewatching tonight and one thing they fail to make of mention is that Poe's Decision to take out the dreadnaught at the beginning of the film saved the Resistance. Had the Dreadnaught been with the First Order Fleet when they started tracking the resistance through hyperspace they would have been destroyed at the end of their first jump. Sure it cost them all the bombers but In the end it saved the Resistance.
Personally I hope they make comment on this and say that in the end it was the right call to make.
Personally I hope they make comment on this and say that in the end it was the right call to make.
IG: mando_arms
BUT THE PINK-HAIRED YOGA MOM THINK'S HE'S BEING TOO COCKY AND HE DOESN'T NEED TO UNDERSTAND HER BRILLIANT STRATEGY.
Now now, you're violating your own rule.
Shades of the US Navy's Torpedo Squadron 6, decimated at the Battle of Midway.Quote:
Sure it cost them all the bombers but In the end it saved the Resistance.
That opening sequence with the bombers really brought back what, for me, was the big draw to the original Star Wars - the Death Star attack at the end of the movie. Lucas used actual footage of WWII aerial combat when he was putting together that sequence. Go watch an old movie called 633 Squadron, about a squadron of British Mosquito bombers tasked with taking out a German hard water facility secluded in the fjords of Norway, and then look at the trench run of Episode IV.
One can debate the reality of whether bombs could "fall" in space such as depicted in TLJ, but if that's what's going to get your knickers in a ruffle, please tell me all about the idea of little starfighters maneuvering all over the place in space without any obvious thrusters other than the fully lit engines. The new Galactica actually depicted that in a far more believable fashion, but once you've accepted the original film's idea that these ships can do the things they are depicted doing in that Death Star attack, then you should also accept the idea of a fleet of bombers dropping bombs on the dreadnought. (I only bring that up because I recall that being a point of contention on the TLJ thread when the movie came out).
I'll rewatch TLJ for the first time since I got it on BR tomorrow night.
I think keeping her plan a secret would have worked better if they had played up the fact they believed they had a mole in the fleet giving up coordinates. A scene showing an argument about whether or not it was hyperspace tracking vs a spy would have made the whole thing more believable.
IG: mando_arms
Yep. They figured out the hyperspace tracking too quickly.BrownCoat said:
I think keeping her plan a secret would have worked better if they had played up the fact they believed they had a mole in the fleet giving up coordinates. A scene showing an argument about whether or not it was hyperspace tracking vs a spy would have made the whole thing more believable.
I actually think a cool twist would have been for the "codebreaker" to be on board this ship with them already and he convinces them that they are being tracked through hyper space (Maybe he could be a First Order defector as well?). Holdo doesn't trust him and locks down the bridge because she thinks there is a mole, which is why she won't tell Poe what she's doing. As someone suggests earlier, Finn and Rose and the codebreaker (Or Finn and Poe or whoever) board Snoke's ship and use Finn and the codebreaker's knowledge to infiltrate it, only to find out the codebreaker has been the mole all along, and there was no actual hyperspace tracking at all.
Same basic plot structure, but you cut out Canto Bite and some of the confusion around Poe and Holdo's conflict. I don't know maybe that's just bad fan fiction and even more convoluted but I think it might have left people a little more satisfied.
Rose should have been the code breaker. It would have simplified and helped so many things.
Maybe even giver her a backstory where she was a criminal code breaker, always in and out of trouble/jail. But she went straight and promised her sister to never code break again. She can only do menial labor to stay away from computer systems. Her sister dies in the beginning of the movie, so Rose's conflict would be to honor her sister's memory and the promise to her sister, but have to break that promise to help the rebels break into the enemy ship.
Maybe even giver her a backstory where she was a criminal code breaker, always in and out of trouble/jail. But she went straight and promised her sister to never code break again. She can only do menial labor to stay away from computer systems. Her sister dies in the beginning of the movie, so Rose's conflict would be to honor her sister's memory and the promise to her sister, but have to break that promise to help the rebels break into the enemy ship.
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This just doesn't bother me. Poe is the reason they are in the mess they are in, was recently (as in hours ago) demoted, and doesn't deserve an explanation of their plan in the slightest. The only reason it bothers people is because Poe is a main character, and we are so used to main characters being smarter than everyone else. They set this whole story up to prove the point that, oh sometimes one doesn't know everything and its OK to trust the people who are in authority over you....which is not a storyline in 99% of movies.
I think there are definitely gendered reasons people don't like this as well...but I'd say, on the whole, most people just don't like the main characters to turn out to be dumb. I think this storyline could pay off in IX with a Poe who is eager for counsel from people, not quick to run into a fight he doesn't understand, etc.
I think there are definitely gendered reasons people don't like this as well...but I'd say, on the whole, most people just don't like the main characters to turn out to be dumb. I think this storyline could pay off in IX with a Poe who is eager for counsel from people, not quick to run into a fight he doesn't understand, etc.
The problem is that Poe storyline is not entertaining, at least not to me. Star Wars should be an epic fantasy, not lessons for children.
Edit so not 100% negative: the kamikaze scene was neat.
Edit so not 100% negative: the kamikaze scene was neat.
So I'm one that's more positive on this film than most, though I can definitely understand why some didn't like it. Working from home today so I'll put it on and give a fresh report this afternoon.
I still argue that Poe's decision to take out the Dreadnought saves the Resistance Fleet. Had the Dreadnought survived the first attack it would have destroyed the fleet as soon as the dropped out of Hyperspace. I wish they would have acknowledge that.
Was Poe's decision to ignore a direct order stupid? Yes but it ended up saving the fleet...
Also I actually like the film but I have a few issues with it. The light-speed kamikaze attack is beautiful to watch.
Was Poe's decision to ignore a direct order stupid? Yes but it ended up saving the fleet...
Also I actually like the film but I have a few issues with it. The light-speed kamikaze attack is beautiful to watch.
IG: mando_arms
I really like Poe's arc in TLJ, he elevates to a clear #2 lead behind Rey in the heroes side of thing. The movie really does a disservice to John Boyega's talents and the upward arc of his character in TFA. Maybe it's because I'm getting older, but the Canto Bight stuff is just so damned rushed. I feel like he and Rose are sprinting around the casino and then suddenly arrested. Benecio del Toro's bizarro accent choice makes it even worse. And the Never Ending Horse Ride is a part that I think I had blacked out until I started writing this post.
veryfuller said:
This just doesn't bother me. Poe is the reason they are in the mess they are in, was recently (as in hours ago) demoted, and doesn't deserve an explanation of their plan in the slightest. The only reason it bothers people is because Poe is a main character, and we are so used to main characters being smarter than everyone else. They set this whole story up to prove the point that, oh sometimes one doesn't know everything and its OK to trust the people who are in authority over you....which is not a storyline in 99% of movies.
I think there are definitely gendered reasons people don't like this as well...but I'd say, on the whole, most people just don't like the main characters to turn out to be dumb. I think this storyline could pay off in IX with a Poe who is eager for counsel from people, not quick to run into a fight he doesn't understand, etc.
It may be my own bias seeing woke ghosts behind every tree, but it felt contrived to have a Strong Woman be the moral superior of the erstwhile male hero with stereotypical male faults.
During the movie, I was writing Poe's dialog in response saying, "my recklessness and disobedience are the only reasons you have the opportunity to make a plan seeing that we're not already scattered into a million pieces by a dreadnought's cannons". The way the dreadnought bombing run was written, it was clear a tough moral choice was made, they could have acknowledged that, but instead it came across as "dumb reckless man put in his place my noble dignified selfless woman", that choice made both of them look one dimensional and took away from the moral complexity of the earlier tradeoff that Poe made.
BrownCoat said:
Rewatching tonight and one thing they fail to make of mention is that Poe's Decision to take out the dreadnaught at the beginning of the film saved the Resistance. Had the Dreadnaught been with the First Order Fleet when they started tracking the resistance through hyperspace they would have been destroyed at the end of their first jump. Sure it cost them all the bombers but In the end it saved the Resistance.
Personally I hope they make comment on this and say that in the end it was the right call to make.
I was sort of restating this in my previous post. They could have worked that into the back and forth with Poe and Laura Dern, but made it awkward and contrived. Maybe they'll acknowledge it in the next one, but doing so in TLJ could have made both characters deeper and more nuanced in a positive way.
Dern could have still told him to sit down and shut up to carry out her plan while somehow recognizing that they'll need a whole lot more of old Poe to beat more dreadnaughts in the future.
In a vacuum, TLJ was a bad movie. The screenplay alone was something clearly hacked together by a studio with a dozen writer's giving each scene their own take. It annoyed the ever living **** out of me because it gave rise to "subversive savants" who would rather be "shocked" by an action than have that action make any sense.
In the context of the new trilogy, it was worse. It invalidated everything that happened in TFA, while simultaneously robbing Rise of Skywalker (whatever tf that is supposed to mean) of any potential emotional or substantive payoff.
Just make an old republic trilogy. Start over. No skywalkers.
TLJ was positive in that it's probably (hopefully) the last Star Wars movie Rian Johnson will write.
In the context of the new trilogy, it was worse. It invalidated everything that happened in TFA, while simultaneously robbing Rise of Skywalker (whatever tf that is supposed to mean) of any potential emotional or substantive payoff.
Just make an old republic trilogy. Start over. No skywalkers.
TLJ was positive in that it's probably (hopefully) the last Star Wars movie Rian Johnson will write.
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