Star Wars Rewatch Project: EPISODE V - THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

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TCTTS
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01.19 - Star Wars Rewatch Project: EPISODE I - THE PHANTOM MENACE
02.19 - Star Wars Rewatch Project: EPISODE II - ATTACK OF THE CLONES
03.19 - Star Wars Rewatch Project: EPISODE III - REVENGE OF THE SITH
04.19 - Star Wars Rewatch Project: SOLO: A STAR WARS STORY
05.19 - Star Wars Rewatch Project: ROGUE ONE: A STAR WARS STORY
06.19 - Star Wars Rewatch Project: EPISODE IV - A NEW HOPE

Apologies for the delay. Been doing family stuff over the holiday. Next up...

Title
Star Wars: Episode V - The Empires Strike Back

Release Date
May 21, 1980

Director
Irvin Kershner

Writer
Lawrence Kasdan, Leigh Brackett





Brian Earl Spilner
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Sex Panther
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Bruce Almighty
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Not only the best Star Wars movie, but one of the greatest movies ever made. It improved on the writing, the acting was better and the Luke/Vader scene is the greatest scene in the franchise.

1. ESB
2. ANH
3. ROTS
4. Rogue One
5. TPM
6. Solo
7. AOTC
oragator
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Why did they have Harrison Ford doing the trailer?

But to the topic at hand, along with The Godfather 2 probably, the best sequel ever made, with the biggest reveal maybe in movie history.

Just a great movie.
PDWT_12
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Watched it yesterday and came looking for the thread, thanks for getting it up on a holiday TC.

Similar to the last thread for A New Hope, I don't know that there's any point in trying to say something new about this movie. It's one of my all time favorites, what I consider to be a near perfect blockbuster and setting an unfair standard for all second movies in a trilogy from now until the end of time.

What I Like:

The battle on Hoth is awesome. The setting, the preparations by the rebels, and then the arrival of the AT-ATs. Who has ever seen anything like that before this movie? So menacing and dangerous looking, you immediately remember how unlikely the rebel victory in A New Hope was. These are not evenly matched foes, and no amount of scheming from our heroes can withstand pure military superiority.


The three main planets we see are really cool honestly. The frozen tundra of Hoth, the creepy, unsettling swamp of Degobah, and the wonder of Cloud City. Really creative design and world building in this movie.


You can take your wise, sage-like Yoda from the prequels. I will keep my hillbilly hermit-ass swamp Yoda who rifles through Luke's things, grunting as he throws them over his shoulder and gleefuly marveling at a ****ing pen light (and evenutally evoking Stand Your Ground rules by fighting a robot with a stick). Florida Yoda is my Jesus and I will have no other before him.


Similarly, you can have Slave Leia or Forrest Leia, and I will take my Hoth Leia. Unfairly attractive in the all-white. I think Luke would have made out with her even if he'd known she was his sister.


"Then I'll see you in Hell!" Han Solo, oozing cool and proving he's the kind of friend you want in life. Between this and Raiders of the Lost Ark, nobody could write dialogue for Harrison Ford like Kasdan. "Who's scruffy looking?" "Never tell me the odds." Just several great moments and paired with a fantastic performance by Peter Mayhew.

Speaking of oozing cool seeing Lando again gets me so excited for Billy Dee's return in RoS.

The overall story works so well despite splitting up our main characters so early on. It gives us the little interactions we need for the final act to matter. Luke leaving his training early, Han being frozen in carbonite, the lightsaber battle (the first we've seen since the second act of ANH) with so much anger and aggression, and finally the iconic reveal as Luke clings to the platform. It's quite possibly one of the best final acts of all time, despite ending on such an uncertain note. And it doesn't work without the interactions we get between Luke/Yoda, everyone aboard the Falcon, and Vader with his subordinates.


What I Don't Like:

The timeline is maybe a little wonky and it feels dirty watching Leia kiss her brother every time and I honestly do not care and I never will. This movie is awesome.

Favorite Tracks:

Imperial March
The Duel
Asteroid Field
The Battle in the Snow
Yoda's Theme

It's a darker sounding score than what we get in ANH obviously, but it's equally as impressive. We are not worthy John Williams.


Rankings so far are:

Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Rogue One
Revenge of the Sith
Solo
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

Brian Earl Spilner
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Quote:

You can take your wise, sage-like Yoda from the prequels.


Or from the second half of ESB, but you know, whatever.
PDWT_12
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2nd half of ESB is still very much Florida Yoda.

Running an unlicensed gym in the Everglades and encouraging dangerous exploration in swamp caverns. Salvaging wrecked aircraft. Florida as hell.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Quote:

it feels dirty watching Leia kiss her brother
Leia was so freaking hot in this movie, as I believe you already referenced. When she told Han that he didn't know everything about women yet and prompted laid one on Luke, nothing dirty about that.

Then came 25 May 1983 ... when ghost Obi-Wan tells Luke that the "other" Yoda mentioned was his twin sister ... then that kiss in TESB became gross, icky, or whatever you want to call it, especially for those of us with sisters.
Gigem314
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Iconic. Sets the standard for every sequel/trilogy to this day...which is kind of unfair since nothing ever quite measures up. But it changed film history.

I enjoy these walk-backs through each film.
JABQ04
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One of my favorite movie scenes ever is the first time we hear the imperial march and the colossal Star Destroyers are suddenly being over shadowed by the Executor.
MGS
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To me, the most unforgivable of Lucas' revisions was how he completely changed the dialog in Vader's holo-chat with the Emperor to better tie it in with the prequels.

That and changing it from a weird, mysterious figure to Ian McDiarmid's giant disembodied head.


Bruce Almighty
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Battle of Hoth is the second greatest battle scene behind D-Day in Saving Private Ryan.
John Matrix
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Why is it that we like Star Wars? It's a simple question that could have an infinite amount of answers. Some people love the special effects, others the world building, some the socio-political context, but I've always been been drawn to the characters. All art, including film, is art because it tells fundamental truths about our human experience. Star Wars may take place in a galaxy far far away, but it features emotions and experiences that are fundamental to our existence on this blue green orb in a sea of universal nothingness. Films like The Empire Strikes Back remind us that a cold, hard truth awaits all of us: some times you get your ass kicked, and there's nothing you can do about it but survive to fight another day. Whether it's your job, a relationship, a test at school, weight loss, etc. defeat is a fundamental element of the human experience. As mostly Aggies on here, god knows we've experienced ass kickings in something as fundamentally inessential as football.

In the end, we love seeing heroes succeed, but we love seeing them fail and lose even more because it reminds of ourselves-flawed beings who are just trying to claw and survive in a world that can be cruel and unbending to our insignificant needs. It's because of this that films like The Dark Knight, Avengers: Infinity War, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, the Wrath of Khan, etc. all were all integral parts of heir series-heroes have to fail in order to rise again.

The Empire Strikes Back is the blue print for all of these films and one of the best pieces of fiction, not just movies, that I've ever experienced. It's simply one of the best films ever made because its the most human of films-one that takes the failures of its characters with the upmost seriousness.

The Good (Everything):

It's not a coincidence that the film starts off on the lifeless, barren ice world of Hoth. From the beginning, we see that whatever is going to occur plot wise, it's not going to be easy. The first act does a great job of introducing this idea with Luke getting captured and injured by the yeti-esque snow monster.

The one thing I found surprising about this first act is the major set piece of the film occurs in the first act and, at least scale-wise, is really never topped. Usually in big blockbusters; the big set piece is seen in the climax. Here, with the imperial walker set piece, the biggest scale of the film is seen before the end of the first act.

The second act is much more subdued, but none the less important in terms of story, character and plot. I absolutely love the falcon and it's passengers' cat-and-mouse game in the asteroid field simply because not only is it thrilling, but it also continues to hammer home the theme that **** just ain't working for our heroes this time. The hyperdrive is constantly on the fritz, C3PO won't stop being an annoying kill joy, and they just keep getting into one pickle after another.

Luke's journey with Yoda also reinforces this theme that nothing is going to be easy for our heroes. With all his success as a warrior in the previous film, there's an air of arrogance to Luke here that Yoda points out at every turn that directly correlates to his decision to face Vader later.

One thing I've always loved about the film is the acting. Simply, all actors that seemed enthusiastic if a little wooden in A New Hope are comfortable in their characters and in Irwin Kershner's direction. A prime example of this is in the Han and Leia romance. Kershner is able to harness the natural chemistry that Ford and Fisher obviously had,(which supposedly led to an affair of some sort), and make everything believable.

Mark Hamill is equally as accomplished here in a much different role. Luke here is confident, arrogant, even reckless, which directly leads to his bad decision to confront Vader in the final act when he's obviously not ready. Every character turn here is directly supported by the writing and direction.

Which brings me to my favorite scene in the film-Luke's initial duel with Vader intercut with Leia and Lando's escape. Luke enters this thing and is so obviously in over his head, it's borderline frightening. In fact, John William's theme here "The Duel" sounds like something from a horror movie. Luke, the positive white clad hero from the first film, is reduced to a sweaty dirty mess, with Vader controlling all of his emotions and actions. This scene personified that theme mentioned earlier before-sometimes,man, we're just not ready for what's coming. We think we are, but when that big event arrives, often times it ends in failure. Luke's arrogance and concern for his friends drive him into an obvious trap that he should have seen coming.

The "I am your father" reveal is so iconic there's not even really point in bringing it up, but I'll do it anyway to show how well Hamill sells it. As a kid, it really surprised me. This was in the kid 90's when I initially saw it, and I legitimately didn't know the twist. Now, after God knows how many viewings, the surprise has obviously degraded, but the impact has not. Luke is devastated by this reveal, and it's easy to see why. His entire existence has been in pursuit of his fathers exploits and living up to his example. To have that taken away would be damaging to anybody, much less someone whose missing a hand and is about to be killed by the very father he hoped to emulate.

In the end, our heroes barely survive the events of the film, which is ironically a kind of victory in and of itself. Like it says in the film Dunkirk, sometimes surviving is just enough.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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The look on Princess Leia's face when Luke is calling to her through the Force to save him and the music behind it has become my very favorite scene in Empire. If I had not been 6 years old at the time I saw the movie, I'm confident I would have figured out that Leia was the "other" right then and there.

The nagging question that I have from childhood is - why would the Alliance pair up Luke with Dak on the snow speeder pilot/co-pilot roster sheet? Luke is one of the best pilots in the galaxy while Dak is like the girl on the first day of driver's ed who keeps confusing the gear shifter for the turn signal and nearly shreds the transmission 5 times in a 20-minute drive.

Pair Luke with Wedge or Jansen or anyone else and you've got a lethal AT-AT killer out there. Instead it's like in basketball camp when they have the 2-on-2 tournament and they pair the best player with the worst player to make it "balanced."
Aggie_Journalist
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I mentioned in the ANH thread that the original Star Wars trilogy movies were three of the four VHS movies my family owned when I was a child. Well, when I'd gotten a little bit older, my parents loved taking me and my siblings to a lake that was about 45 minutes away from home most summer weekends. They also got a van with a tv and VHS player around this time. It didn't take me long to realize that if I put in Empire Strikes Back and hit play as we were leaving home, I could watch the entire battle of Hoth and Asteroid chase and we'd reach the lake right as Han Solo was parking the Millennium Falcon in that asteroid crater.

I cannot tell you how many times I watched the opening action sequences of this movie. But to this day, when I park my car, I sometimes picture myself as Han Solo landing the Falcon in that asteroid cave.

There's not a negative thing I can say about this movie. It has a thrilling start (the asteroid chase is my single favorite sequence in ANY movie), a Degobah sequence I've only appreciated more and more as I've gotten older, great dialogue (this is the movie where Han Solo BECOMES Han Solo), and it blew my mind as a child that the good guys actually lost at the end of the movie. No win, just survival, living to fight another day. I love this film.
Thanks and gig'em
Al Bula
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Pretty much agree with all the sentiments here: ESB and Hoth in particular are the apex of Star Wars.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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Took me so long to write this post the first time, it timed out. Thank god for copy/paste.

Compare ESB to any movie franchise today and say, which one of these would have the guts to make their initial sequel be a story where the good guys repeatedly get an ass whupping and the main villain destroys the main hero in a fight scene? Oh, and the second male lead gets frozen solid in a block of ice and isn't in the last 25 minutes of the movie.

Because this is the only way I can talk Star Wars - here's my ESB is Awesome list.

1. Luke gets mauled by a Wampa 5 minutes in, scaring the **** out of 6-year-old Muck in 1980.
2. Then I'll See you in Hell!
3. Ghost-bi-wan Kenobi
4. Han Solo, lightsaber wielder
5. Strong enough to pull the ears off a Gundark
6. Why the hell is General Veers standing so close behind Vader before they attack Hoth? He's like Judge Reinhold as the Close Talker in Seinfeld. Always wanted to have Vader whirl around and go "General Veers! Prepare-you JESUS CHRIST why are you so close to me?"
7. Admiral Ozzel's career trajectory takes a down swing.
8. Dak: "Right now I feel like I could take on the whole Empire myself!" Luke: "I know what you mean." Luke's internal monologue: "BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT!"
9. Cliff Freakin' Clavin "Everybody to your stations, let's go!"
10. Hillbilly Rebel pilot: "TWO FAWTERS GENST A STARR DESTROYA?"
11. The Ion Canon: Why doesn't the Alliance have 50 of these things?
12. Guys with rifles in trench shooting 300-foot tall robot killing machine
13. Wedge!
14. I'll get her out on the Falcon.
15. The Falcon's evasive maneuvers after blasting off from Hoth.
16. The Asteroid Belt chase - breathtaking to this day, in 1980 those special effects were as jaw-dropping as seeing the Brachiosaurus in Jurassic Park.
17. I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience. He will learn patience. My god, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda talking to each other about the past years and years before the prequels were even a hint of a thing.
18. BOUNTY HUNTERS - I did every chore I could for weeks to earn quarter to buy IG88, 4LOM, Zuckuss, Bossk and Boss Man Fett. In 1982 at a birthday party, I also witnessed first hand when the recalled Boba Fett toy launched its projectile missile right into a kid's eye socket.
19. Yoda's monologue on the Force. Is anything better? Did a puppet just define the entire saga?
20. Yoda lift's Luke's X-Wing: If you were to show someone who knew nothing about Star Wars a scene to get them interested, this should be it.
21. The cave: Also scared me to death in 1980.
22. Sorry Princess, I don't have time for anything else.
23. Cloud City music. Would like this on a looping track in my home/office.
24. Han Solo draws down on Darth Vader. Somebody else said ESB is where Han Solo becomes Han Solo. This is the moment where he becomes the Solo.
25. That boy is our last hope. No, there is another. - With all the relevations that come after this, it took me 2-3 viewings to start speculating what this meant.
26. There's still a chance to save Han ... Is Chewbacca going to have to choke a *****?
27. Every single milisecond of Vader vs. Luke. I particularly love the first few seconds after they fight the first time. Luke is up by the window, Vader is holding his breath, and lashes out at Luke and starts driving him back, Vader is so HUGE in the frame, he looks like a total nightmare.
28. As mentioned before, Luke calling to Leia through the Force. Carrie Fisher's non-verbal acting there is so phenomenal.
29. The end music on the medical frigate. Gorgeous.
Chipotlemonger
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Damn now that this has hit the rewatch and I listen to other people discuss ESB, and just stepping back to think about it, I think ESB is my number one over ANH. I've been going back and forth for a long time.

Part of what pushes it over ANH for me is the awesomeness that is Hoth and that whole opening sequence. Being a kid growing up in Texas, I think the idea of an ice planet was really different and cool. Also, I had an action figure of the Hoth style stormtrooper outfit guys that had that large cannon they hauled in to shoot at the Falcon in the hanger. Loved that thing.

We got to see Han really come into form at Hoth, and it was cool to see him kind of rise in the ranks among the Rebels in between the first movie and 2nd movie.

Yep, my for sure top 3 is:
ESB
ANH
RO
double aught
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I'd put it just a hair below Star Wars, but I love this movie. So many great moments have been mentioned. Yoda's luminous beings monologue is one of my favorites.
YouBet
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One of the greatest movies ever made. Watching it right now for what must be in the hundreds at this point.

Random observation: Boba Fetts voice sounds like the later clone wars and prequel clones. I assume that was retroactively modified? I don't remember his voice being like this.
YouBet
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Also one of the greatest male-female exchanges ever that I use all the time at home:

Han: No time to discuss this as a committee.
Leia: I am NOT a committee!
Mr. White
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YouBet said:

One of the greatest movies ever made. Watching it right now for what must be in the hundreds at this point.

Random observation: Boba Fetts voice sounds like the later clone wars and prequel clones. I assume that was retroactively modified? I don't remember his voice being like this.


Yeah, it's the Kiwi from AOTC, right?

I much prefer the original.
YouBet
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Mr. White said:

YouBet said:

One of the greatest movies ever made. Watching it right now for what must be in the hundreds at this point.

Random observation: Boba Fetts voice sounds like the later clone wars and prequel clones. I assume that was retroactively modified? I don't remember his voice being like this.


Yeah, it's the Kiwi from AOTC, right?

I much prefer the original.


Yep, definitely kiwi.
cbr
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i honestly have never gotten into this as much as most people. it's good - hell its star wars. but i never thought it was anywhere near Star Wars.

Better then rotj or the prequels, though i think i might put rots above this.

certainly r1 is better.

frankly i think my list is

1 star wars
2 rogue one


significant gap:

3 ESB
4 ROTS


another significant gap:

5 Solo
6 TFA



huge gap - really just not very good:

the other prequels


hot ****ing steaming bull**** garbage waste that needs to be completely thrown into the ****hole:

that last POS, whatever it was called. All i can remember is snotty *****es (male and female), mary poppins, laughing at how pathetic it was when trying to be serious, and staring in disbelief at how bad it was when it was trying to be funny.....

Matt_ag98
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MGS said:


That and changing it from a weird, mysterious figure to Ian McDiarmid's giant disembodied head.





I think I read or heard in the commentary that the eyes were monkey eyes just to make it that much more unsettling
Sex Panther
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MGS said:

That and changing it from a weird, mysterious figure to Ian McDiarmid's giant disembodied head.

Is there a side by side of this?
chipotle
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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cbr said:

i honestly have never gotten into this as much as most people. it's good - hell its star wars. but i never thought it was anywhere near Star Wars.

Better then rotj or the prequels, though i think i might put rots above this.

certainly r1 is better.

frankly i think my list is

1 star wars
2 rogue one


significant gap:

3 ESB
4 ROTS


another significant gap:

5 Solo
6 TFA



huge gap - really just not very good:

the other prequels


hot ****ing steaming bull**** garbage waste that needs to be completely thrown into the ****hole:

that last POS, whatever it was called. All i can remember is snotty *****es (male and female), mary poppins, laughing at how pathetic it was when trying to be serious, and staring in disbelief at how bad it was when it was trying to be funny.....


This is the first I've heard of someone not liking The Last Jedi.
double aught
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Indeed. I'd love to hear more as to why.
policywonk98
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Not really sure I can add anything new here. Still my favorite Star Wars movie and my top 3 favorite movies of all time. And its more like a 1A,B,C. Tombstone and Shawshank are my other two.

But as far as my favorite childhood, teen, and adult versions of myself. ESB is #1A.

In one movie you get to watch and then imagine adventures in snow, jungles, and cloud cities. The dialogue, the acting, the revelations, the battles, the double cross, the cliffhanger. As far as story telling, this had just about everything and it was sequenced in a way that just makes sense from opening to close.


Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Do, or do not. There is no try.

Those words helped me get through Finc 341
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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This remains one of the most impressive visual effects shots that I've ever seen.
chipotle
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Luke: I don't believe it!
Yoda: that is why you fail.
Brandamne
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Damn I love everything about that movie! Just epic!
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