The mental rubiks cube that is this show is what makes it so fantastic.

Just watched season 1 and 2. Really like this show. I liked the closed loop angle to time travel

Teddy Perkins said:

---

So we know who Charlotte's mother is. But I don't remember if it was an episode 8 reveal so I'm spoiler tagging until you finish. Charlotte's mother is her daughter, Elisabeth. And her father is Noah.

---

Which makes absolutely no sense... I think the show has overall been good but this was the stupidest twist of the series so far.

Although just about everything in this show is a paradox, at least Jonas' heritage is possible. But hers is an impossibility. Essentially she'd be her own grandmother and great great grandmother and so on. It would mean one of them had to sleep with their own grandfather. And there's just no possible beginning or end to that cycle in order for it to happen in the first place. Everything else in the show at least has a beginning and end to the cycle, but this is a chicken or egg endless loop. They'd have to keep giving birth to each other every 33 years with the same fathers/grandfathers being involved every time. I believe they're going to have to explain it with the alternate world thing they've set up in the season finale which is going to just make the show even more convoluted.

Charlotte should have a circular reference warning.

OldShadeOfBlue said:

---

Teddy Perkins said:

---

So we know who Charlotte's mother is. But I don't remember if it was an episode 8 reveal so I'm spoiler tagging until you finish. Charlotte's mother is her daughter, Elisabeth. And her father is Noah.

---

Which makes absolutely no sense... I think the show has overall been good but this was the stupidest twist of the series so far.

Although just about everything in this show is a paradox, at least Jonas' heritage is possible. But hers is an impossibility. Essentially she'd be her own grandmother and great great grandmother and so on. It would mean one of them had to sleep with their own grandfather. And there's just no possible beginning or end to that cycle in order for it to happen in the first place. Everything else in the show at least has a beginning and end to the cycle, but this is a chicken or egg endless loop. They'd have to keep giving birth to each other every 33 years with the same fathers/grandfathers being involved every time. I believe they're going to have to explain it with the alternate world thing they've set up in the season finale which is going to just make the show even more convoluted.

---

The reveal in the last few minutes of Season 2 means it's not an impossibility.

That being said, it's unlikely they can wrap everything about in a logical fashion as it's just something that is very hard to do with anything involving time travel.

I kept trying to figure out how they would solve this, as everything they did just seemed to continue the endless loop.

As soon as alternate Martha showed up I figured out where they were heading. I still don't love the idea, but this show hasn't had any missteps yet, so they have my full faith.

Her loop isn't any more or less possible than Jonas' is.

Mikkel doesn't go through the cave without Jonas, but Jones doesn't exist without Mikkel going through the cave. Yeah biologically it's different, but logically it's the same right? X can't exist without Y, Y can't exist without X. Therefore if we know one exists, they've both always existed.

But yeah, this so called 'world without time' is going to tie them all together I imagine. Not exactly sure how that's going to work but it seems maybe kind of like the Nexus is Star Trek: Generations.

BES, you said you figured it out, what's your theory there?

No specifics, but if anything and everything somebody does in the past "always" happened and just continues the cycle (instead of changing it), it seemed like it would be impossible for any character to actually break the loop. It's almost like the harder they tried, the more they continued the cycle. So the only way to break it is for an outside force to do it. (ie. an alternate dimension.)

And along those same lines, I think Jonas/Adam and Martha will end up being the common ancestors for basically all of our characters in Winden. That, or maybe Hannah and someone else.

I also saw a post on reddit regarding the name Hannah being a palindrome, which could be a major clue into her story arc. (The end is the beginning.)

Presumably you're buying the whole theory you linked last page that includes the "Adam/Eve Theory"?

I'm not sure I believe that it's an alternate reality... but maybe. I don't really have another theory that makes all of the pieces fit.

Well, we know that has to be an alternate Martha since we just watched her die.

But, thinking about it further, the "alternate" world can't possibly break the cycle if alt Martha ends up being the mother of all of Winden. So that theory is shot. Both cannot be true.

There was that moment that Jonas said they realized they couldn't change anything big, so he was going to change a "a few grains of sand" and thus change the whole world or something. I assume that's going to matter later.

Damn now my head is clogged again trying to figure this whole thing out.

Yeah, obviously there's some kind of alternate place, but I'm not certain that it's really an alternate timeline. I'm not sold on that theory on Reddit that I'd call the 'Two Worlds Theory'.

I think this alternate place is more, like I said a few posts up, the Nexus in Star Trek Generations. A place without time, which is what Adam (I think?) said he wanted to create. People in the Nexus can leave into any time they choose.

But I have no idea what that actually means for the plot of the show

The English dub is so so bad but read subtitles through an entire show is really undesirable.

I totally forgot I was reading subtitles after a few minutes in each episode.

great show.

someone asked earlier who could woller (police with eye patch) be. I feel like they've shown him so much on screen he has to be important to the story. he looks like he could be ulrich's brother but I don't know how that would be possible

also, if you're not watching in german with subtitles you're doing it wrong

Who is on the right side of the family pic of Hannah / Michael / Jonnas? It's torn off some of the times it's shown but not as much so in season 2?

Had to google it, couldn't remember that picture. It's Agnes Kahnwald. (The nurse.)

pb488 said:

---

great show.

someone asked earlier who could woller (police with eye patch) be. I feel like they've shown him so much on screen he has to be important to the story. he looks like he could be ulrich's brother but I don't know how that would be possible

---

I can't find the source but i read somewhere that the writer of the show only threw that in as a 'red herring.' She was apparently inspired by a show she loved that had a similar character (that showed up with an unexplained limp or something).

It's basically just something fun to mess with the viewers. (Although who knows, it could turn into something later)

Just watched both seasons over the past few weeks. Love it.

One thing I noticed: Alexander Tiedeman's real name is Boris Niewald, which seems like a mix of Nielsen and Kahnwald. Wonder if he's somehow tied to each of these families?

Yep, it's gotta be it. Unless it's a massive red herring.

Yeah, although I'm not entirely sure how that would make sense, but anything is possible I guess.

Just finished season 2. I love that people have gotten into this show. It seemed like after the first season that no one else had watched it.

I love that the crazy just keeps ratcheting up. Can't wait for next year.

Season 3 comes out on Sunday! Rewatching season 2 this week.

Season 3 releases in June.

Edit: Actually, didn't realize that date was just assumed, but not actually confirmed. Definitely not seeing anything about this Sunday though. Where did you read that?

Looks like you're right. I swear when I searched yesterday the first article I saw said April 12th, 2020. Everything I'm seeing now says June if not later...

You got my hopes up, but also slightly panicked, since I need to rewatch both seasons before then.

I'm still not disappointed that I've already watched the first five episodes of season 2... all today. This show is awesome.

I guess I have time to rewatch season 1 as well!

Best show on Netflix!

Yeah I'm trying to ease my girlfriend into it... sci-fi and subtitles isn't exactly an easy combo to pitch... but she trusted me on WestWorld and loves it.

The problem is we're currently watching Westworld with a side of Devs... If I throw Dark in there then next thing you know she's a Mal on the ledge saying none of this is real and she needs to wake up.

No mortal can watch Westworld and Dark at the same time...

I always tell people to keep the family tree handy while watching the show. And pause to your heart's content to either study the tree, or just try to keep your head on straight.

I've never seen an episode straight through.

So I'm watching season 1 again and definitely noticing things that I didn't before.

A few observations:
1. When Agnes shows up to Egon's to rent a room, he asks her why she's come to Winden. She says that her grandmother is from there and that she used to talk about it. When Egon starts to ask what her grandmother's last name is, they are interrupted by Claudia before she can answer. Maybe we've met her grandmother already in the future...
2. Helge somehow manages to have a kid and the only relationship he seems to have as a kid is with Claudia who is his tutor. Claudia could be Peter Doppler's mother?
3. Regina's father is never revealed. She obviously has a relationship with Tronte, but not clear that he is Regina's father. If so, then Ulrich would be her half brother.