Have you seen this, have you heard about this? Didn't see a thread about it.

I watched it last night.

It ruined my night. I thought I was gonna throw up when it was done. Sick on the highest level.

Honesty, I'm still bothered by it this morning. They go into really graphic detail about what happened, where, and why. It adds a lot of gravity to it when you see footage of them with Michael. Just so disgusting.

I was then shocked to go on twitter and see that a vast majority of people are calling the victims liars. It seemed like they were telling the truth to me.

I think MJ was incredibly warped by his parents and childhood, but I still don't think that he was a pedophile. I think he was a very strange, child-like man that had inappropriate, strange relationships with children. It made him an easy target to make a buck. Corey Feldman is one of the reasons I believe this - Feldman no longer pulls punches about sexual abuse in Hollywood, but says MJ was not. I think MJ was almost some sort of asexual weirdo.

They were both able to describe his ***** is full detail, and their stories are eerily similar in terms of how the encounters went down, what specifically they did sexually, and how he systematically tore them apart from their parents.

Jimmy, one of the accusers, even had the ring from their wedding ceremony.

I guess you'd just have to watch it. I will admit the guy who claims abuse at 7 does seem less credible.

in addition to the pedo's sick behavior, the moms came across as complete idiot enablers who were willing to forego being a responsible parent for the limelight. hollywood is a sick place and attracts sick people. the crap celebs get away with is simply incredible. one of the dads should have shot that pedo right away.

Was Lisa Marie, Corey Feldman, or Mackuley Culkin interviewed for this documentary?

Old Tom Morris said:

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I think MJ was incredibly warped by his parents and childhood, but I still don't think that he was a pedophile. I think he was a very strange, child-like man that had inappropriate, strange relationships with children. It made him an easy target to make a buck. Corey Feldman is one of the reasons I believe this - Feldman no longer pulls punches about sexual abuse in Hollywood, but says MJ was not. I think MJ was almost some sort of asexual weirdo.

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What if he was really just into midgets this whole time?

PDEMDHC said:

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Was Lisa Marie, Corey Feldman, or Mackuley Culkin interviewed for this documentary?

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Nope.

Well you have numerous kids that without a doubt, indisputable facts, admitted to sleeping in bed with Michael many many times. The only thing you don't have is video evidence. And if you need that, I don't know what to tell you.

Old Tom Morris said:

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Corey Feldman is one of the reasons I believe this - Feldman no longer pulls punches about sexual abuse in Hollywood, but says MJ was not.

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But Feldman has also stated that Michael Jackson exposed him to pornography when he was 13 and alone at Jackson's apartment.

Sadly, people in positions of power are very good at manipulating young minds and stunting them for potentially decades to come. This can be seen plainly in the countless ADULTS who would come forward decades later to expose the sexual abuses that the Catholic Church had been systematically doing and covering up.

To say that it is impossible for a 7 year old to remember because some as an adult can't remember what they did last week? This guy was the biggest star in the world. Don't you think you would remember meeting your idol for the first time when you were 7? And then wouldn't you also remember your idol engaging with you in a sexual manner? It's a lot for a preteen to cope with and understand.

I understand how someone can be cautiously skeptical of these types of things, but eventually the smoke leads to fire. There is too much on this guy at this point to continue to require hard evidence.

Edit: spelling

I remember hair raising stuff from about 5. Not sexual abuse but weird sexual behavior by a neighbor. Like it was yesterday.

Anyone who STILL doesn't think MJ was molesting these kids just has their head in the sand.

These are FACTS

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To help viewers contextualize the documentary's presentation of what ultimately amounts to a narrow slice of a sprawling saga, here are 10 undeniable facts about the sexual-abuse allegations against Michael Jackson.
1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy's house with Chandler's mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler's father's house. The parents were divorced.
2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: "Rubba." He called Robson "Little One" and Safechuck "Applehead."
3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers' lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something "long and drawn out." Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.
4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson's *****. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson's genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler's drawings.
5. The hallway leading to Jackson's bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.
6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson's on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.
7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson's children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.
8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson's mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson's company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck's parents got a house. Jordie Chandler's mother got a diamond bracelet.
9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.
10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.

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Old Tom Morris said:

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I think MJ was incredibly warped by his parents and childhood, but I still don't think that he was a pedophile. I think he was a very strange, child-like man that had inappropriate, strange relationships with children..

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The definition of a pedophile is someone that likes to have sex with children, which sadly makes MJ the poster boy for that term. Whether you completely believe these accusers or not, there's way too much smoke here to say there's no fire - and their stories are eerily similar in details to completely discount them.

jock1020 said:

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To say that it is impossible for a 7 year old to remember because some as an adult can't remember what they did last week? This guy was the biggest star in the world. Don't you think you would remember meeting your idol for the first time when you were 7? And then wouldn't you also remember your idol engaging with you in a sexual manner? It's a lot for a preteen to cope with and understand.

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Yep, I would think almost all people would remember specific sex acts that the biggest star in the world engaged in with you. Very few people would forget this imo.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Younger guy was definitely full of *****

A 7-year-old would not have the specific, detailed memories that he's able to recall.

I couldn't describe things from last month that well.

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I'm sure that if the biggest music star on the planet molested you a month ago you would have no problem remembering it....

He also wanted to play Professor X in the first X-Men film.

Prior to this documentary you had to willfully ignore mountains of evidence to continue to believe that Michael Jackson was not a pedophile. This documentary should leave no doubt for anyone.

Unfortunately, if you look at the absolutely bizarre reactions of people to his death the disturbing public displays and near canonization of him by the media, it is clear that even undeniable proof of Jackson's guilt won't change people's minds.

If this much evidence was available for Bob, the accountant down the street, no one would have any doubt about guilt or innocence. But celebrity for some reason makes people want to (need to?) find grey area and doubt. They just can't handle the cognitive dissonance.

Just finished. Edited my previous posts on this thread, should tell you all you need to know.

Sigh. Just, sigh.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Just finished. Edited my previous post on this thread, should tell you all you need to know.

Sigh. Just, sigh.

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Still think it's just a money grab?

The graphic detail was really horrendous to hear. The documentary does a great job of showing how widespread the chaos that comes from abuse. As often as it happened, it makes you wonder how many people in Jackson's life had knowledge of his actions.

Was my post not clear enough?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Was my post not clear enough?

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Not really.
You were pretty adamant before that no new information had come out and that the accusations had been dismissed already due to changing stories.
Was legitimately wondering if your stance had changed.

It has.

If it walks like a duck then it's a duck........

Is it possible to have zero power but be able to manipulate supermodels to sleep with me?

Asking for a friend.

He made Thriller... Thriller.

So I watched the Oprah interview after finishing this.

Have to say I've gone from being at maybe 80/20 leaning towards MJ's innocence, to ~ 60/40 now leaning towards he did it.

The main thing that pushed me over the edge was seeing Wade's emotional breakdown when he finally admitted it to his family, and his family's reaction. I just don't think you can fake that kind of emotion.

Granted, it's always possible these could be false/implanted memories, but it's just so hard to defend MJ at this point.

Pretty much sucks. I'll continue to love and enjoy his music, though. I'll just have to learn to separate the two things entirely.

60/40? The evidence is basically insurmountable at this point.

I don't know if it's for the same reasons, but I'm also in the "hard to believe it" group. When younger, I also thought "just a weird weird man child who had a stunted childhood and likes to play with kids as if he was a kid". And it wasn't because he was famous because there's been multiple examples of people - famous, coworkers, friends of friends - charged with seriously disturbing crimes and my first reaction is always "no, can't be". I think it's just very hard for normal people to accept that others are capable of certain acts, especially people you know. It's almost self protection to believe that it's not possible, surely no one could do those things.

However, I'm older now and slowly I've realized there are truly sick individuals out there. Jackson's behavior is so in line with so many others that do this, the stories across multiple accusers so consistent. I guess I still can't shake the part of me that believes "unless I personally see it or there are photos, how can I know" but surely we should be at 90 or 95% YES, he did these things to kids.

The litmus test is would you trust your young son with this man given all that you have been told. I bet you switch to 100% believing the victims. The people that have a hard time believe this criminal was sick are either people who find themselves always being cynical, or people that can't believe a person that made a song that they liked from 30 years ago could be capable of such things, insurmountable evidence be damned.

I think this article sums it up nicely.

Michael Jackson Was A Monster. These 7 Facts Prove It.

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(1) Jackson sought and befriended prepubescent boys. He took these boys as companions and traveled the world with them. Every so often, he would find a new young male companion and move on from the old one. This fact is not disputed.

(2) Jackson lavished the boys' families with gifts and money. This fact is not disputed.

(3) Jackson invited the boys to his home, which was filled with toys and candy. This fact is not disputed.

(4) Jackson invited the boys into his bed. This fact is not disputed.

(5) Jackson had a stash of bondage porn by the bed. This fact is not disputed.

(6) The bed was in a room, behind a locked door, at the end of a hallway equipped with alarm systems that would alert him when someone was approaching. This fact is not disputed.

Which leads us to the last piece of the puzzle:

(7) Five of the boys who shared a bed with Jackson later accused him of abuse. This fact, also, is not disputed.

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Quote:

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Facts (1) through (6) are compelling enough on their own. Fact (7) is just confirmation. Indeed, on no planet, in no universe, is there any good reason for a man to seek out young boys and share his bed with them. If an adult man is inviting boys over for slumber parties, the chances that he is not a pedophile could not be greater than, say, .01 percent. If that same man is then accused, and then accused again, then again, and again, and again, the chance can no longer be called a "chance" at all.

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And the point I made earlier:

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If a guy named Bob Smith or Mike Jones was in the habit of "befriending" seven-year-old boys and sharing his bed with them, nobody would bother pretending that there might be a non-horrific explanation for his behavior. Only Jackson gets that benefit of the doubt from some people, even now, because he could sing well and dance well. I concede that he was very gifted in both areas. But he was also a godforsaken monster, and no dance routine can mitigate that.

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There is much more in the article, including debunking the Jackson defenders.

Is there any reason to watch this assuming I dont need convincing that Jackson was a pedo?
It sounds like from this thread and some other reviews that it is quite graphic and disturbing.

expresswrittenconsent said:

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Is there any reason to watch this assuming I dont need convincing that Jackson was a pedo?
It sounds like from this thread and some other reviews that it is quite graphic and disturbing.

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I was flipping channels last night and landed on it, within a minute I heard "he would ask me to kiss his nipples then he would masturbate to completion". And then more, as if it was directed by a pedo. It seemed gratuitous, but I didn't see it all and maybe it was purposefully so due to so many doubters existing.