...to be eligible for Oscars, and instead Emmy's as other TV movies are considered on that level.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/02/steven-spielberg-vs-netflix-oscar-academy-wars-1202047846/

And of course Netflix has responded, as have other directors like Ana DuVernay who are opposed, as well as other actors.

https://deadline.com/2019/03/netflix-steven-spielberg-oscars-streaming-twitter-1202568702/

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Army of Darkness actor Bruce Campbell criticized the plan as well.

"Steven Spielberg is gunning to make sure Netflix never has another Oscars contender like Roma," Campbell tweeted. "Sorry, Mr. Spielberg, Roma ain't no TV movie it's as impressive as anything out there. Platforms have become irrelevant. Make a movie with Netflix."

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Curious where the Entertainment board stands on this.

My personal opinion is that I see both sides of the debate. Not sure I land on one or the other. Spielberg comes from the old guard that seeing a film on the big screen is part of the experience and what makes it magical. I agree completely as I would much rather go into a dark theater where my phone is in my pocket on silent and watch a movie I want to see on the big screen.

Happened last night actually as I watched Free Solo on Nat Geo. I enjoyed it enough but thought it lacked a little something. That something is no doubt the experience of seeing it in the theater had I been able to.

That being said...this new era is not going away and people are going to increasingly watch film on tablets and phones and tv's and less on the big screen so how do you account for that when it comes to the awards circuit?

What do y'all think?

Also, this is a call up front to please try to keep the thread civil and leave out the "hollywood libs eating their own!" and "awards are just a circle jerk" type snipes. That's fine to have that opinion but that isn't what this thread is intended to be about.

Bunk Moreland said:

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...to be eligible for Oscars, and instead Emmy's as other TV movies are considered on that level.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/02/steven-spielberg-vs-netflix-oscar-academy-wars-1202047846/

And of course Netflix has responded, as have other directors like Ana DuVernay who are opposed, as well as other actors.

https://deadline.com/2019/03/netflix-steven-spielberg-oscars-streaming-twitter-1202568702/

Quote:

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Army of Darkness actor Bruce Campbell criticized the plan as well.

"Steven Spielberg is gunning to make sure Netflix never has another Oscars contender like Roma," Campbell tweeted. "Sorry, Mr. Spielberg, Roma ain't no TV movie it's as impressive as anything out there. Platforms have become irrelevant. Make a movie with Netflix."

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Happened last night actually as I watched Free Solo on Nat Geo. I enjoyed it enough but thought it lacked a little something. That something is no doubt the experience of seeing it in the theater had I been able to.

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You're right. Free Solo on IMAX was breathtaking.

Posted this on the Oscars thread. My guess is Spielberg won't be leading this charge next year if/when his buddy Scorcese's film is nominated for BP.

If it is an episodic/serialized/daily program on television, it goes in the Emmy pile. If it is a feature film, it goes in for the Academy regardless of who produced it or made it available. That is how I've always looked at it.

exactly what my buddy told me after I watched. He said watching on IMAX had him on the edge of his seat.

Would Mr. Spielberg also only allow Academy voters to see movies in theaters, and not on screeners at their home?

Seems like Spielberg might be jealous he isn't getting Netflix money to make his passion project.

wangus12 said:

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If it is an episodic/serialized/daily program on television, it goes in the Emmy pile. If it is a feature film, it goes in for the Academy regardless of who produced it or made it available. That is how I've always looked at it.

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Except the Emmy's has a Television movie category where feature films released on TV are nominated.

I see both sides as Netflix is kind of a gray area between prime time tv that the Emmy Awards celebrate and the film industry for the Oscars.

wangus12 said:

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If it is an episodic/serialized/daily program on television, it goes in the Emmy pile. If it is a feature film, it goes in for the Academy regardless of who produced it or made it available. That is how I've always looked at it.

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Emmy Awards have a tv movie category.

I can understand both sides as well, but the bottom line is I think Netflx films should be eligible.

Having said that, I do hope big blockbusters still continue to get theater releases.

Not gonna lie, as great as it is that I'll get to watch The Irishman at home "for free", if I was given the option, I'd much rather watch that in a movie theater. Certain movies belong on the big screen, and that certainly fits the bill for me.

I'm torn on this because Netflix does provide another avenue for Movies to be made, movies that may not have the business or other items needed to get distribution in theaters. Movies that reach the masses. Roma fits in there, I doubt many would have seen it in a theater as opposed to how many views it's received just by being on Netflix. Netflix and streaming is the way we're trending and there's no stopping it.

On the other hand, there's something about seeing a movie in a theater. Many film makers make their movie intended to be seen by a captive audience in a theater for full immersion. When people start watching movies on their phones on a bus ride with constant interruptions it loses something and the viewer will not enjoy it as much.
It's like a famous symphony being listed to on an AM radio.

I think what's going to end up happening is that movies will start to have less clout than TV. A 2.5 hour movie cannot have the level of character development as 5 seasons of Breaking Bad, for example. Cable TV/Netflix will be the place to go for actors who really want to show what they can do. I think that Emmys will eventually have the clout that Oscars currently do.

It would be ironic if someday Spielberg makes a Netflix movie. Though he is sort of a geezer now.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Posted this on the Oscars thread. My guess is Spielberg won't be leading this charge next year if/when his buddy Scorcese's film is nominated for BP.

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That's why I think this has more to do with Buster Scruggs than Roma. If established directors can go off the reservation and make the kind of movie they want to make, working with the people they want to work with and get good reviews from audiences and critics, I'd imagine that's a cause for more heartburn with studio bigwigs.

The communal experience talk is nice and high-minded, but people were watching new movies at home long before we ever had any concept of streaming services. And the academy has always nominated and awarded films with limited release or exposure.

Social Media Influencer said:

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And the academy has always nominated and awarded films with limited release or exposure.

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This is the part that I agree hurts Spielberg. A film in the past 20 years could get some big buzz at the Toronto Film Festival, sneak a limited release in on the final weekend of the calendar year, and then build Oscar buzz based off of 3 cities in LA/NY/Chicago while everyone else is struggling to access it.

I get that you and me don't decide the award winners and the Academy largely does, but I also think a large portion of the Academy doesn't bother going to the theater to see all the nominated movies, instead waiting for many to be delivered to them to watch at home.

It's a fascinating discussion for sure.

Roma was the favorite. It's all about Roma.

I think it's all about money. he wants movies to have to go to theaters because the margins are higher there than home video release.

schmendeler said:

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I think it's all about money. he wants movies to have to go to theaters because the margins are higher there than home video release.

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You don't think he's beyond caring about money anymore? He's rolling in it.

Counterpoint said:

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schmendeler said:

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I think it's all about money. he wants movies to have to go to theaters because the margins are higher there than home video release.

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You don't think he's beyond caring about money anymore? He's rolling in it.

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I don't know that a rich person is ever beyond "caring" about money.

I've watched and listened to a lot of his conversations over the years and I think his love of the experience of seeing something on the silver screen is driving this more than money imo.

Bunk Moreland said:

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I've watched and listened to a lot of his conversations over the years and I think his love of the experience of seeing something on the silver screen is driving this more than money imo.

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so basically, he's gatekeeping.

Counterpoint said:

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schmendeler said:

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I think it's all about money. he wants movies to have to go to theaters because the margins are higher there than home video release.

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You don't think he's beyond caring about money anymore? He's rolling in it.

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I agree. He's a 70 year old billionaire who's making more movies like Lincoln than Indiana Jones nowadays.

you can call it that if you want. I think he's got an argument about the difference in movies and how they're presented to us. Again, that's why the Emmy's has a TV movie category.

The silver screen "Experience" has declined a lot, IMO. Even worse when you consider how good televisions are now when 25 years ago they were trash in comparison visually.

Counterpoint said:

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schmendeler said:

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I think it's all about money. he wants movies to have to go to theaters because the margins are higher there than home video release.

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You don't think he's beyond caring about money anymore? He's rolling in it.

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He's a major league executive defending a longterm business model. He's also passionate.

Sour grapes if you ask me. I think he's upset Netflix did so well. He sees it as an affront to the film industry because in his mind, TV is a lesser product. The fact is, Netflix saw their chance and played by the rules by releasing these films in theaters. I don't think Speilberg et al ever thought they would go that far. Now they have and broken the seal, he's trying to change the rules to shut them out again. Ironically in the process he may shut out traditionally produced movies as well. The indie films that seem to be favorites from time to time could also suffer while Netflix abides by the new rules and continues to get awards.



He's basically the school yard equivalent of taking his ball and going home.

JJxvi said:

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The silver screen "Experience" has declined a lot, IMO. Even worse when you consider how good televisions are now when 25 years ago they were trash in comparison visually.

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I think there's fewer big time directors who know how to take advantage of its mystique for sure.

But without the experience, there's no business even making a movie like Dunkirk. Seeing that on the huge screen with the sound and everything made it so much more impactful. There's no way it translates to even great TV/home theater systems.

i would think the artist in you would be in favor of whatever allows more people to experience films. similarly, it gives more artists a chance to make films. from a purely artistic standpoint, aren't those both good things?

particularly since we have a PSA video from tom cruise explaining how we can watch movies the way they intended in the comfort of our own home.

I agree completely. But Spielberg's contention isn't getting in the way of that or blocking that or hindering art, etc... There's already a spot for TV Movie...the question is just where do you judge those types of releases.

And I'm all for Netflix continuing to produce movies and others to continue as well. The question is just how you view it and what it means/where it's accounted for. It's only going to continue down that path.

While I do think that there are movies that deserve big screen experiences (and to be fair, a lot of what Spielberg does comes to mind as big screen experiences), I also feel that a good amount of movies are not. What experience would I get watching a movie like the Green Book or Roma in a theater versus at home? When it comes to drama, the experience much more comes from the story and the emotions derived from it than the experience of having it on a big screen.

And it doesn't help that going to a movie theater has a good chance to not being a good experience, both because of cost and because of other people. A recent anecdotal example for me was going to see Infinity War, and having people ****ing cheer every time a new hero appeared, which plays over dialogue, and making it a miserable experience, to the point where the snap resulted in a huge amount of schadenfreude on my part. Netflix solves this problem by allowing you access to high quality programming in the comfort of your own home, for a monthly fee that's a shade over the cost of a single movie ticket.

I understand that Spielberg values experiences, but technology is changing how experiences can be made. Trying to deny movies entry into the Academy because you don't agree with their distribution method is shortsighted and resisting change for the sake of resisting change. It would be like Stephen King coming out and saying that a self-published book doesn't belong on the New York Times Bestseller List - if the product is good, it deserves to be recognized.

Bunk Moreland said:

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I agree completely. But Spielberg's contention isn't getting in the way of that or blocking that or hindering art, etc... There's already a spot for TV Movie...the question is just where do you judge those types of releases.

And I'm all for Netflix continuing to produce movies and others to continue as well. The question is just how you view it and what it means/where it's accounted for. It's only going to continue down that path.

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yeah, i get it. it wasn't much of an issue when netflix was just cranking out adam sandler films.

and ultimately, it's the academy's award and they can dictate the terms however they want. the members may see that distinction quite clearly, but i'm not sure the film-going audience does. at some point, as more and more auteurs and accomplished actors start pumping out netflix films, if the academy isn't honoring them, does it lose some of the public luster?

Quote:

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going to see Infinity War, and having people ****ing cheer every time a new hero appeared, which plays over dialogue, and making it a miserable experience, to the point where the snap resulted in a huge amount of schadenfreude on my part.

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I don't want to distract from your other valid points, but this is hilarious.

Social Media Influencer said:

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Quote:

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going to see Infinity War, and having people ****ing cheer every time a new hero appeared, which plays over dialogue, and making it a miserable experience, to the point where the snap resulted in a huge amount of schadenfreude on my part.

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I don't want to distract from your other valid points, but this is hilarious.

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My girlfriend actually got annoyed with me because she was all distraught over it like everyone else, and I just had this big grin on my face when we were walking out of the theater.

Steven just sounds like a butthurt D-bag.

The movie theater "experience" is a dinosaur of an institution. Rarely do I leave a theater and think "that was totally worth the price."

Give me Netflix/Amazon Prime and the comforts of my own home over high-priced tickets and a theater full of strangers any day.

NoahAg said:

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Steven just sounds like a butthurt D-bag.

The movie theater "experience" is a dinosaur of an institution. Rarely do I leave a theater and think "that was totally worth the price."

Give me Netflix/Amazon Prime and the comforts of my own home over high-priced tickets and a theater full of strangers any day.

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Millions of people would disagree with your opinion of the theaters being a dinosaur institution.

I have always loved to see movies in the theater, and some movies are much more of an experience on the big screen, than sitting on my couch.

Things have changed. Going to the movies isn't nearly as magical for my kids, as it was for me. There are a million other options, and they have catalogs of movies at their fingertips.


My one comment to him, would be this: If you believe some movies provide a much better experience at the theater, that should give him an advantage over the others movies only seen on streaming services.

Dont complain about it. Just use that to your advantage.