It's disappointing, I wouldn't care if this wasn't a tom clancy adaptation
*** TOM CLANCY'S WITHOUT REMORSE ***
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Last: 2 yr ago by I Sold DeSantis Lifts
it is a barely mediocre movie with crappy acting that has no reason to exist.RogueAg said:
This movie was far from great... but those calling it ****ing awful are being a bit dramatic. Actions scenes were good and MBJ is solid. Some of the supporting work was less than stellar... and I do agree with all the comments regarding the Navy SEAL squad leader.... that casting choice didn't fit. Musical score was really good.
Worth a couple hours with some popcorn. Not going to win any awards... but far from the worst movie most people on this board will watch this year.
and as a Jack Ryan story it is crap. Full stop.
RogueAg said:
This movie was far from great... but those calling it ****ing awful are being a bit dramatic. Actions scenes were good and MBJ is solid. Some of the supporting work was less than stellar... and I do agree with all the comments regarding the Navy SEAL squad leader.... that casting choice didn't fit. Musical score was really good.
Worth a couple hours with some popcorn. Not going to win any awards... but far from the worst movie most people on this board will watch this year.
I am generally a fan of MBJ, but this acting was Red Tails level bad. Maybe worse. This was not well acted at all. By anyone
I liked it ok, but I'm not that picky and I haven't read the book in a long time.
It was one of my fave Clancy books, along with Clear and Present Danger (I didn't like Dafoe as John Clark either, FTR).
Now I know to re-read it without the movie in mind.
And for those that think it's setting up Rainbow Six, didja see the mid-credit scene?
It was one of my fave Clancy books, along with Clear and Present Danger (I didn't like Dafoe as John Clark either, FTR).
Now I know to re-read it without the movie in mind.
And for those that think it's setting up Rainbow Six, didja see the mid-credit scene?
I was excited to watch. Convinced better half to watch. After it was over, she asked me what I thought. I told her it was one of the worst movies I'd ever seen and did the book a huge disservice.C@LAg said:it is a barely mediocre movie with crappy acting that has no reason to exist.RogueAg said:
This movie was far from great... but those calling it ****ing awful are being a bit dramatic. Actions scenes were good and MBJ is solid. Some of the supporting work was less than stellar... and I do agree with all the comments regarding the Navy SEAL squad leader.... that casting choice didn't fit. Musical score was really good.
Worth a couple hours with some popcorn. Not going to win any awards... but far from the worst movie most people on this board will watch this year.
and as a Jack Ryan story it is crap. Full stop.
She finished the book tonight and said 'wtf, this is nothing like the movie.'
Amazon ****ed that book eight ways from Sunday with a thorny cactus.
Without reading the entire thread, is this one of those adaptations that shares a name with its source and nothing else?
They took the John Kelly/Clark character and updated it to fit the modern Ryanverse Amazon is creating. Some of the same motivations are there for the lead, but the setting and foes are completely different. So if you're wanting a direct porting of the book onto the screen, you'll definitely be disappointed.
Solo Tetherball Champ said:
Without reading the entire thread, is this one of those adaptations that shares a name with its source and nothing else?
Yes.
The plot is totally different. The setting is totally different. The story is different. The characters are different, not just in appearance/gender/etc., I don't mind that. But also very different personalities, skillsets, and behaviors. Even the main character, and the main character's personality, skillset, and behavior is critical, not just to WR but also the coming Rainbow Six productions. And that change I do mind, very much. Very disappointing.
jeffk said:
They took the John Kelly/Clark character and updated it to fit the modern Ryanverse Amazon is creating. Some of the same motivations are there for the lead, but the setting and foes are completely different. So if you're wanting a direct porting of the book onto the screen, you'll definitely be disappointed.
Ugh.
I really wish the Ryanverse had kept the Cold War setting. It would have made it an interesting period piece.
I don't mind bringing the story up to more modern times. I don't mind the casting choices either. Amazon makes movies to get people to watch them. I don't see movies about Vietnam vets being blockbusters with most of the streaming media crowd.
IMO, there's two huge misses in this movie that make it totally miss what Without Remorse was about, and neither had to happen to bring the story up to current times.
1. Clark is too young. In the books, Clark is an older dude that everyone knows is a badass from back in the day, but conducts himself with a veteran calmness. Not old old. But a generation older than the guys he trains. Having Clark be a Syria vet makes him too young to pull that dynamic off in the coming films. Could have easily done an Iraq/Afghanistan backstory from 10 years prior and maintained that dynamic.
2. And this is the big one. Clark is calm. Clark is disciplined. Clark never forgets the mission. He relies on training and training alone. He constantly reminds everyone to keep emotions in check because emotions get you killed. Winners stay calm and stick to the plan. Always. Even when every shred of you wants to go Rambo. That's why Clark is so successful at what he does. And what he passes on to his trainees later. I don't know if the writers intentionally made Clark a loose canon in this movie, or if MBJ just whiffed horribly on his character research, but to me that totally defies the central tenet of the character and totally undermines the story from that point forward. Loose canons don't get put in charge of special ops teams. The whole premise is absurd on it's face. And it made this movie bad, and will make the coming Rainbow Six franchise bad.
That's my humble opinion anyway. And the worst part is they could have done all they updating of the setting/casting they wanted for the new Ryanverse and still kept the character true to form if they had just paid more attention to those two aspects.
IMO, there's two huge misses in this movie that make it totally miss what Without Remorse was about, and neither had to happen to bring the story up to current times.
1. Clark is too young. In the books, Clark is an older dude that everyone knows is a badass from back in the day, but conducts himself with a veteran calmness. Not old old. But a generation older than the guys he trains. Having Clark be a Syria vet makes him too young to pull that dynamic off in the coming films. Could have easily done an Iraq/Afghanistan backstory from 10 years prior and maintained that dynamic.
2. And this is the big one. Clark is calm. Clark is disciplined. Clark never forgets the mission. He relies on training and training alone. He constantly reminds everyone to keep emotions in check because emotions get you killed. Winners stay calm and stick to the plan. Always. Even when every shred of you wants to go Rambo. That's why Clark is so successful at what he does. And what he passes on to his trainees later. I don't know if the writers intentionally made Clark a loose canon in this movie, or if MBJ just whiffed horribly on his character research, but to me that totally defies the central tenet of the character and totally undermines the story from that point forward. Loose canons don't get put in charge of special ops teams. The whole premise is absurd on it's face. And it made this movie bad, and will make the coming Rainbow Six franchise bad.
That's my humble opinion anyway. And the worst part is they could have done all they updating of the setting/casting they wanted for the new Ryanverse and still kept the character true to form if they had just paid more attention to those two aspects.
John Francis Donaghy said:Solo Tetherball Champ said:
Without reading the entire thread, is this one of those adaptations that shares a name with its source and nothing else?
Yes.
The plot is totally different. The setting is totally different. The story is different. The characters are different, not just in appearance/gender/etc., I don't mind that. But also very different personalities, skillsets, and behaviors. Even the main character, and the main character's personality, skillset, and behavior is critical, not just to WR but also the coming Rainbow Six productions. And that change I do mind, very much. Very disappointing.
So worse than Sum of All Fears Ben Affleck "Neo Nazis" instead of Islamic Terriosts bad?
Wow. I went in not knowing anything about the book or anything about the movie. My wife and I got a brief moment to pick something to watch while the kids were asleep. So, disappointed that this was the movie we picked.
Holy crap what an absolute pile of dog ***** The director should never get another job. Michael B Jordan needs someone better to help pick scripts because he's a much better actor than a number of the roles he's taken.
How did that model get cast as Lt Commander? She could not act her way out of a paper bag.
Holy crap what an absolute pile of dog ***** The director should never get another job. Michael B Jordan needs someone better to help pick scripts because he's a much better actor than a number of the roles he's taken.
How did that model get cast as Lt Commander? She could not act her way out of a paper bag.
I thought season 1 Jack Ryan was pretty good. Season 2 went off the rails in my opinion. Ryan's character completely changed from reluctant skilled operator to super hero.FincAg said:
So this movie is on par with the Jack Ryan Amazon series? Trying to set expectations. Those were decent as someone who has never read a Tom Clancy novel. It sounds like this movie is awful.
Completely agree. Season 1 of Jack Ryan was a pretty decent modernization of the character as an analyst with a Marines background. You knew they were going to get more into action than they did early on in the books, but at least they made him reluctant. Then he went full-on revenge Rambo in Season 2, not to mention Kathy disappeared, character motivations just completely changed. I have no interest in Season 3 now.Furlock Bones said:I thought season 1 Jack Ryan was pretty good. Season 2 went off the rails in my opinion. Ryan's character completely changed from reluctant skilled operator to super hero.FincAg said:
So this movie is on par with the Jack Ryan Amazon series? Trying to set expectations. Those were decent as someone who has never read a Tom Clancy novel. It sounds like this movie is awful.
With WR, they just went straight to Rambo and decided that Kelly/Clark from the books wasn't "exciting" enough. I don't care that MBJ is black. I care that they made him a hot-headed loose cannon. That's not who runs a Special Operations team. Then you layer in the rest of the generic action movie tropes and you get this pile of junk.
I'm sure people who don't know the source material will be okay turning their brains off and giving this 4/10 or 5/10, but it's a 1/10 as WR.
It's just a larger trend of how little Hollywood thinks of us as a film-going audience. They think we won't be entertained by the unassuming badass and need some slap-you-across-the-face motivation and emotional character on a war path.
Need more nuance in these roles. Heck, that's half of what is intriguing about the characters in the books--the nuance, the motivation, the cool-headed and emotionless decision-making. But hell, maybe they're right with our dumbed down society today. But this portrayal was far more sledgehammer than scalpel and is exactly why I'm not bullish on a Rainbow 6 series.
Nailed it.
Salt was a way better movie
you may all go to hell and i will go to Texas
Just saw this.
I agree with above posts that if you turn off your brain, it's a 5/10 movie with a different name but 1/10 as presented.
Now I'm worried Amazon's Ding Chavez will be Chinese and his background stories is fighting right-wing whiskey tangos.
I agree with above posts that if you turn off your brain, it's a 5/10 movie with a different name but 1/10 as presented.
Now I'm worried Amazon's Ding Chavez will be Chinese and his background stories is fighting right-wing whiskey tangos.
Saw the trailer and his commander was a female SEAL. Wasn't in the mood for that crap; looks like I'm not missing out.
They went too John Wick with the character, but I guess that's due to it being easier to portray than the more clandestine approach from the books.
The overall story of US/Russians trying to start a war played out too conveniently. Op into Syria, oops killed some Russians, Op into US, killed US SEALs. Op into Russia, killed US pilots and then Russian police/soldiers. I'm supposed to believe there's people on both sides masterminding all these events? I guess they didn't want to go the terrorist route because of Jack Ryan and I'm assuming R6 will be against terrorists as well. The sequence from going after the Russian conspirator, getting arrested, going to prison, fighting riot gear guards only to be released seconds later was an absolute crapshoot. Then followed up by being allowed to join the incursion team, airplane shot down, "dramatic" swim into the sinking fuselage to save the mission, and confrontation with CIA Ritter. These scenes were not developed and happened too fast.
They tried to cram too much into the movie and I came away thinking the intent was only to setup R6. This was a mail-in origin movie, maybe it would have worked better if R6 came out first and you have hints/dialogue referencing Clark's past.
I think a drug ring would have made it a better story. Clark could have been doing his SEAL thing overseas and his wife/family could have been killed by a fleeing drug lord from a botched sting operation. That would tie more into his actual story, I think it was a drunk driver? He comes back from his deployment, finds out about the operation/drug lords name from an old cop he's friends with (Jack's father) which leads him down the revenge path of getting to the man responsible for killing his family. While this is going on, he's doing something for the government (training maybe?) so that when he is almost caught he can assume his new identity and do the whole R6 thing. Hell, he could be running missions into the ME to rescue downed pilots. This would hit more items from the book and keep the modern timeframe, without the Russia/US conspiracy junk.
The overall story of US/Russians trying to start a war played out too conveniently. Op into Syria, oops killed some Russians, Op into US, killed US SEALs. Op into Russia, killed US pilots and then Russian police/soldiers. I'm supposed to believe there's people on both sides masterminding all these events? I guess they didn't want to go the terrorist route because of Jack Ryan and I'm assuming R6 will be against terrorists as well. The sequence from going after the Russian conspirator, getting arrested, going to prison, fighting riot gear guards only to be released seconds later was an absolute crapshoot. Then followed up by being allowed to join the incursion team, airplane shot down, "dramatic" swim into the sinking fuselage to save the mission, and confrontation with CIA Ritter. These scenes were not developed and happened too fast.
They tried to cram too much into the movie and I came away thinking the intent was only to setup R6. This was a mail-in origin movie, maybe it would have worked better if R6 came out first and you have hints/dialogue referencing Clark's past.
I think a drug ring would have made it a better story. Clark could have been doing his SEAL thing overseas and his wife/family could have been killed by a fleeing drug lord from a botched sting operation. That would tie more into his actual story, I think it was a drunk driver? He comes back from his deployment, finds out about the operation/drug lords name from an old cop he's friends with (Jack's father) which leads him down the revenge path of getting to the man responsible for killing his family. While this is going on, he's doing something for the government (training maybe?) so that when he is almost caught he can assume his new identity and do the whole R6 thing. Hell, he could be running missions into the ME to rescue downed pilots. This would hit more items from the book and keep the modern timeframe, without the Russia/US conspiracy junk.
not sure what i found most surprising; her being a SEAL team commander, a model IRL, or married to charlie conway from the Mighty Ducks.Furlock Bones said:
How did that model get cast as Lt Commander? She could not act her way out of a paper bag.
Got back from deployment, and finally watched this.... holy crap what have they done to you John Clark.
Without Remorse was one of my absolute favorite Clancy books. This was not Without Remorse, this was 2 hours of generic action movie. I cannot believe that anyone involved with this project actually read the book.
So John Clark is basically a lunatic in the Ryanverse.... not sure how many operators are going to want to work with a guy like that. The Rainbow Six show/movie they make should just be Ding and the team getting Clark fired so that he doesn't get them killed acting like an *******.
Which, also, how the eff are they going to make Rainbow Six anyway. We've had 20 years of terrorist shows at this point, it's going to seem derivative almost no matter what, and this team they have at Amazon has not inspired much hope.
I have Rambo Ryan and Crazy Clark.
Without Remorse was one of my absolute favorite Clancy books. This was not Without Remorse, this was 2 hours of generic action movie. I cannot believe that anyone involved with this project actually read the book.
So John Clark is basically a lunatic in the Ryanverse.... not sure how many operators are going to want to work with a guy like that. The Rainbow Six show/movie they make should just be Ding and the team getting Clark fired so that he doesn't get them killed acting like an *******.
Which, also, how the eff are they going to make Rainbow Six anyway. We've had 20 years of terrorist shows at this point, it's going to seem derivative almost no matter what, and this team they have at Amazon has not inspired much hope.
I have Rambo Ryan and Crazy Clark.
Agreed. Word for word. I only thing I disagree with you on is why would you watch it? It's crap.
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