Ned's army took KL I'm fairly certain.

aTmAg said:

---

Zombie Jon Snow said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

G Martin 87 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Another thing I forgot to mention:

The fact that Dany wiped out the fleet and scorpions so easily was idiotic. Last week Euron's fleet first 3 shots went 3 for 3 from a mile away. They yesterday they looked like storm troopers. I thought they were going to do something smart to win that battle. Like maybe sneak up in the middle of the night and burn the scorpions on one side of the city, and then have Dany approach from that direction or something. But no. This time, she was just really good at flying a dragon and everybody else had really bad aim.

---

She dove in from a high angle with the sun at her back. Turns out that Euron wasn't seeing hundreds of baby Drogons (like the more ridiculous theorists suggested from last week's preview), but squinting into the sun unable to be sure what he was seeing.

---

I'll give her the first dive. It's the 20 after that which are a problem, IMO.

---

They don't rotate easily at all or adjust angle - they are big lumbering weapons. They had limited tactical ability really. After the first dive once she was swooping and diving through them it was from 20 different angles they could not adjust to on the fly.

---

The fleet was far enough from the city for that to not matter. If they could 3-tap a dragon from the ships a mile away last episode, then surely the ones on land cold hit her once when she was attacking the fleet. Especially on that first dive when she wasn't turning. Diving from the sun doesn't work on everybody. Just on the people near her shadow.

Surely you'll admit that it went from, "I have doubts that Dany can win this thing" after last episode to the most overwhelmingly powerful victory imaginable this episode.

---

No I never doubted she could win - I never even doubted she would win. I wasn't sure how it went down but I knew she would win.

The 2nd dragon being taken out simply showed they could take one out - it gave them some hope. But the way that one was done was weak admittedly. But it was a surprise attack just executed poorly on film but I get it. But really those scorpions should have been easily avoided if you come in like she did this time. All she had to do was swoop in high and fast. They shoot - you adjust. And then after the first volley they don't move quick enough for the close in torching of them all.

PS - in retrospect the dragon killed in the last episode had to happen from the writers perspective and it's kind of lame but they did it so that Jon wasn't on a dragon during Dany's rain of fire from the sky otherwise she couldn't do that. THAT is a pure artifact of reverse engineering this thing - how do we get rid of a dragon, oh i got it, sneak attack. But they'd already planned her flaming the city and all of that. They needed Jon ona dragon for BOW and not ona dragon for KL - so they took it out. Execution should have been better.

Fenrir said:

---

Ned's army took KL I'm fairly certain.

---

Not the red keep though. When Ned walked into the throne room, Jaime had already killed the MK and was sitting on the throne. I'm assuming he had already opened the gates for them too.

Good post. and LOL. Of course we couldn't have a GoT season thread without at least one of em (and appears there are more).

Remember the old days when those losers would get on the non-book reader threads basically telling posters their theories are wrong until they just couldn't help themselves and would spoil it anyway?

StringerBell said:

---

i bought dany beating the scorpions this time. last two times that a dragon has been taken out (spear from the night king and then the scorpion) it's 1) come as a surprise and 2) come when no one was riding the dragon.

this time she knew what weapon they had and how she needed to attack. being up in the clouds and then basically hitting them with the stick and move made sense. also makes perfect sense as to why people feared dany--one dragon caused that much mayhem the thought of three full grown dragons is just bananas.

my only beef was cersei going out like a punk. go do something. i know all is lost but **** woman go do something and try and salvage your dignity.

enjoyed the hell out of the episode.

---

That and I wished she would have died at the hands of a Stark in a painful, public manner, not huddling in the basement with her lover.

I guess you're technically (the best kind of) right. Red keep was flying Lannister banners when ned got there right?

Quinn said:

---

Zombie Jon Snow said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

G Martin 87 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Another thing I forgot to mention:

The fact that Dany wiped out the fleet and scorpions so easily was idiotic. Last week Euron's fleet first 3 shots went 3 for 3 from a mile away. They yesterday they looked like storm troopers. I thought they were going to do something smart to win that battle. Like maybe sneak up in the middle of the night and burn the scorpions on one side of the city, and then have Dany approach from that direction or something. But no. This time, she was just really good at flying a dragon and everybody else had really bad aim.

---

She dove in from a high angle with the sun at her back. Turns out that Euron wasn't seeing hundreds of baby Drogons (like the more ridiculous theorists suggested from last week's preview), but squinting into the sun unable to be sure what he was seeing.

---

I'll give her the first dive. It's the 20 after that which are a problem, IMO.

---

They don't rotate easily at all or adjust angle - they are big lumbering weapons. They had limited tactical ability really. After the first dive once she was swooping and diving through them it was from 20 different angles they could not adjust to on the fly.

---

The episode showed guys on Euron's boat easily pushing the weapon to face a different direction.

---

No it didn't it took time. Rotate it (5 secs)...adjust altitude (5 secs).... meanwhile the dragon has moved 500 feet.

And reloading the thing. They were dragging those heavy chains rotating back the catapult mechanism - that was another 5 secs at least. Then aim again and shoot.

They could get off one shot maybe every 30 seconds at best (per ship). but once she dive bombed and the first volley missed and she was twisting and turning in their midst it was way too fast to adjust and the ships went up like matches as she torched 5 or so per blast.

Big difference compared to all 30 ships with their weapons pointed and the dragons lazily flying across their path when they took one out. Admittedly their aim there was a little too conveniently good. But this time it made sense - they could not adjust fast enough.

Ranger222 said:

---

That is where she turns and realizes there really isn't anything left for her. She even goes on to say that she came to Westeros and nobody loves her. Not the people, not her closest advisors, not Jon. This has gone down the exact opposite of how she expected. Even after helping the North defeat the NK, the people still loved Jon, not her. She is an outsider and will always be. This was her reckoning with that realization.

---

There's your clean/disappointing ending. She leaves the 7 kingdoms for Jon and returns with Drogon to Essos to do whatever....maybe start a mall kiosk juice bar or something...?

PDWT_12 said:

---

I think I would have rather seen Rhaegal survive last episode. Dany tells Jon he can not ride him because she no longer trusts him. As Dany is destroying the defenses, and the Dothraki and Unsullied are mowing down the last remaining soldiers, the bells start ringing. Dany stops Drogon and Rhaegal to basically accept the surrender, and then we see Cersei smiling in the Red Keep as a scorpion (maybe one she missed, maybe a hidden one) shoots Rhaegal. It would be a final F you from Cersei, very underhanded and very in line with her character.

Rhaegal's death right in front of Dany is what causes her to snap, even as the bells still ring. I understand they've been building towards this moment, but I think she needed to see something happen right in that moment to push her over the edge and make it easier for the audience to believe.

---

I kept expecting this to happen to Drogon. I thought maybe the original design Cersei saw in the dungeon was still there since Qyburn obviously kept improving on it and making more.

agsquirrel97 said:

---

Zombie Jon Snow said:

---

Speaking of spoilers - I wasn't aware of any and I am still batting .000 on my own theories......not one damn bit of my favorite prophecies has played a part lol. oh well.

but those in the know - someone here accused someone of posting a spoiler straight from the leaks a few days ago. I don't know if that involved this episode specifically but if so... can you out them now????? If it's still for episode 6 then I guess not but I was curious.

---

ZJS - I believe you are talking about my post:

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Marcus Aurelius said:
Historically - have Reddit spoilers been accurate ? I read some for Ep 5 and 6 - but will not repeat them here.

---

AgSquirrel97 said:

BEWARE EVERYONE

people who have admitted to reading spoilers have started making "predictions" in this thread. I swear, we can't have anything nice.

*****!

---

I quoted Marcus Aurelius directly in my post calling him out when he openly admitted to reading spoilers. When people asked that names not be named to keep who was spoiling it a secret I agreed with the logic and shut up. But here is what he was saying and it pertains to episode 5. What bothered me was, even though I haven't read spoilers, he was on my list of "Hey look at me, I have read spoilers" and then he started posting, I predict, what about this theory....and I figured correctly he was leaking.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Marcus Aurelius said:
I agree. I think the "Mad Queen" theory is accurate and she loses it and goes scorched earth on KL. To the point of cruelty. Hence Emilia Clarke's comments on how she cringed when she read the script. Tyrion and others may try to dissuade her to no avail.

---

---

Quote:

---

Marcus Aurelius said:
Grey Worm is pissed. I predict he and the Unsullied go into Beast Mode and kick some ass.

---

Quote:

---

Marcus Aurelius said:
Yes. He and the Unsullied go off. And the Dothraki have their way. KL is ruined.

---

Quote:

---

Marcus Aurelius said:
There are two spoiler/leakers online. One with the "Mad Queen" theory. The other without that. And both have drastically different outcomes of two major characters. So - it's all prediction IMO.

{I went ahead and put the spoilers tags since you led with that. - Staff}


PS - staff added spoiler tags after I read this post and complained so others missed him directly quoting the "Mad Queen" theory as one of the spoilers. This is when I posted the warning in chat above about people spoiling.

---

Quote:

---

Marcus Aurelius said:
My major curiosity is - if the Mad Queen theory is accurate, how will Tyrion, Jon, Jaime, Varys, etc react ?

The plot could seriously go to a huge different direction.

---

If you want my prediction, I predict he always posts with cool guy sunglasses because he is a peacock, look at me, I read spoilers and I make predictions, love me, want me, need me.

---

thanks man. Interesting. Pretty blatantly taking at least one side of the leaks/spoilers and running with it as theory. Lame.

I assume your anger face is not for me - but Marcus.

thanks for clearing it up.

amidst all the noise I put no more stock in those posts than any others so it spoiled nothing for me - but that's pretty bad.

bobinator said:

---

She needed a reason to kill the people. Even if the reason was insane. Every genocidal maniac in history has had their own insane and terrible logic for why they did the terrible things they did. But there was still a logic there.

After seven years of setting up Dany's character, and literally seconds after she was able to pull of a surgical single-person strike against a bunch of enemy positions without killing any innocent people, she decides to just wipe out the whole city because she hears some bells ringing.

---

i need to rewatch. but, i think she was planning on torching the city. when she tells Grey Worm to wait for my signal, you'll know. she wasn't merely talking about the start of the battle. she was talking about the destruction of KL.

i dont think rhaegal's death caused dany to snap

i think missandei's death pushed her over the edge. missandei was the only she could trust.

she snapped and wanted to destroy everything related to cersei.

Furlock Bones said:

---

bobinator said:

---

She needed a reason to kill the people. Even if the reason was insane. Every genocidal maniac in history has had their own insane and terrible logic for why they did the terrible things they did. But there was still a logic there.

After seven years of setting up Dany's character, and literally seconds after she was able to pull of a surgical single-person strike against a bunch of enemy positions without killing any innocent people, she decides to just wipe out the whole city because she hears some bells ringing.

---

i need to rewatch. but, i think she was planning on torching the city. when she tells Grey Worm to wait for my signal, you'll know. she wasn't merely talking about the start of the battle. she was talking about the destruction of KL.

---

D&D said she didn't plan it ahead of time and that she made the decision at that moment while looking at the Red Keep.

I also think this would have been the moment for Jaime to lose it and kill Cersei, like everyone who watched him leave Brienne in Winterfell wished he was going to do.

He's trying to convince her to leave with him as the bells are ringing, and she just kind of has a "watch this" moment as Rhaegal gets shot. Jaime realizes she's never leaving this place, that more than him and anything else she loves power and being hateful. So he chokes her to death in the Red Keep as Drogon begins to burn it down.

I'm being very nit picky, I actually didn't hate this episode like some people, but I also think it could have been a lot better and still managed to end up in the same spot.

i think she had made up her mind to **ck **it up before the battle even started...it was evident ALL ALONG. what more reasons did you want them to give you? She realized she was alone...that someone else had a better claim to the throne...that even her trusted advisors had betrayed her...that yet another man she loved had spurned her...she even SAYS IT...'FEAR IT IS THEN'

waiting for the bells to ring was the ultimate EFF YOU...it was not what drove her mad...she was already there...it was to drive home her fury...wait until the city surrenders, then torch it anyway

it was perfect, and brutal, and genius, and awesome

The Dog Lord said:

---

gambochaman said:

---

HATERS GONNA HATE

THIS WAS PURE EPICNESS OF THE MOST AMAZING KIND

if you couldnt see Dany slowly losing her marbles, then you definitely were not paying attention...all of the trauma suffered throughout her life came to a boiling point yesterday. What would have made no sense is if the bells had rang and she had called off the attack...would have been very out of character


either way, she dies next week

---

Except she hasn't torched innocents before. She even mentioned last night that the people of Meereen freed themselves. As others have mentioned, if the people had actively resisted her, it would have made more sense for her to say "screw them" and burn the whole thing down.

---

Dany at Merreen is not the same Dany at this point. She rose to be the most powerful person in the world only to see her advisors fail her, two of her dragons die, losing half or more of her forces in a battle she didn't even know she had to fight, betrayals, and outside of drunk Tormund, a complete cold shoulder from the North and the Vale. She stopped being the wide eyed "breaker of chains" a long time ago. She wants her f'n throne.

Feeling bad for Cersei at the end reminded me of how I started to feel sympathy for the Firefly clan at the end of Zombies "The Devils Rejects". No wonder I'm a pushover with my kids.