I don't think the Jon/Targ reveal will happen until near the end of the series, possibly when the inevitable war with the WW begins. I very much doubt that information is made known in the next few episodes.
Game of Thrones - Season 7
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tk for tu juan said:
How worried should Varys be when Dany finds out about Yara's fleet losing to Euron? She will probably think someone leaked their plans and he would be target #1
Dragonstone is just outside the Blackwater. It's not terribly hard for Euron to find out Yara's movements. I don't think Dany has to worry about a spy.
Does Varys know that Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar had a kid? Seems like something it would make sense for him to know but I can't remember anything that confirms it.
PMD03 said:
I really hope that Daenarys gets word of two of her allies getting beaten and goes off. As Lady Tyrell said, "Be a dragon." Drop the Peace and Love. It is time for Fire and Blood.
Feels like next week we should get to see the dragons torch all his ships. Wishful thinking probably.
It seems likely that Varys would have learned about it, but on the other hand his spy network is mostly composed of street urchins.Rocag said:
Does Varys know that Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar had a kid? Seems like something it would make sense for him to know but I can't remember anything that confirms it.
Re: Dany. I could definitely be wrong. But I think her threatening of Varys shows the change within her. Did she threaten Tyrion in the same way? Barristan? I really can't remember. And Dany becoming drunker and drunker on power would also align with one of the prophecies or more so an outcome of the prophecy, so there is that as well.
Re: Varys. Varys in the series is a much more evolved and extremely interesting character than in the books, IMO. His motivations in the books are much harder to guess at than in series, mainly because he essentially disappears for two books only to show up in the epilogue of ADWD. In the series, the whole period of moving Tyrion out of KL and to Mereen is so much less convoluted and Varys highly involved, so we get the benefit of his multiple conversation with Tyrion to really understand what he is up to and why.
And last night answered a big question for me I've had for a long time, as Varys just flat out stated it. He was playing every angle of the game for the best outcome for the realm, for the people. Not necessarily for the Targs. I always wondered if there as some way that Varys could have known that Dany would rise to power, be Mother of Dragons, etc. In the end, Varys simply stayed informed and made moves as the situation changed, ultimately throwing in for Dany as the best choice for the realm.
Re: Varys. Varys in the series is a much more evolved and extremely interesting character than in the books, IMO. His motivations in the books are much harder to guess at than in series, mainly because he essentially disappears for two books only to show up in the epilogue of ADWD. In the series, the whole period of moving Tyrion out of KL and to Mereen is so much less convoluted and Varys highly involved, so we get the benefit of his multiple conversation with Tyrion to really understand what he is up to and why.
And last night answered a big question for me I've had for a long time, as Varys just flat out stated it. He was playing every angle of the game for the best outcome for the realm, for the people. Not necessarily for the Targs. I always wondered if there as some way that Varys could have known that Dany would rise to power, be Mother of Dragons, etc. In the end, Varys simply stayed informed and made moves as the situation changed, ultimately throwing in for Dany as the best choice for the realm.
Personally, I think Littlefinger is suspicious of Jon being a targ. He probably has always known it didn't make sense that Ned would come back with a ******* son and it certainly is possible he has crept down to the crypt enough times looking for Cat's tomb to notice anything "different" or "off" about Llyana's tomb (I don't know, maybe an extra spot next to her or some kind of extra markings on the statue that signify she did have a child? Maybe the sword of the morning is depicted somehow?)
There's not many people left with such intimate knowledge about the logistics around Robert's rebellion, but LF certainly is one. I could see him pressing Jon on the issue, asking him "what did Ned ever tell you about your mother? Anything at all? Interesting, when he came back from the war, he didn't come back the same way he went. How did he know he had a baby waiting for him? That doesn't seem like Ned, does it? But if 'honorable Ned Stark' were to lie about something so important, he would need a very good reason. Perhaps he was protecting you. Why would you be in danger... unless..."
He's possibly the most clever person in the entire series. I just think he's too close to never figure it out.
Also, can we all take a second to remind ourselves that Cat was never Jon's mother. She was especially cold to him so it's not like Jon "kinda" thought of her as a mother. I know most know that, but I've seen a number of people reference that on accident and I just wanted to clear it up.
There's not many people left with such intimate knowledge about the logistics around Robert's rebellion, but LF certainly is one. I could see him pressing Jon on the issue, asking him "what did Ned ever tell you about your mother? Anything at all? Interesting, when he came back from the war, he didn't come back the same way he went. How did he know he had a baby waiting for him? That doesn't seem like Ned, does it? But if 'honorable Ned Stark' were to lie about something so important, he would need a very good reason. Perhaps he was protecting you. Why would you be in danger... unless..."
He's possibly the most clever person in the entire series. I just think he's too close to never figure it out.
Also, can we all take a second to remind ourselves that Cat was never Jon's mother. She was especially cold to him so it's not like Jon "kinda" thought of her as a mother. I know most know that, but I've seen a number of people reference that on accident and I just wanted to clear it up.
Well he's Goth John Silver now.Ol Jock 99 said:
From the NPR recap:Quote:
The fleet's attacked by Captain Jack Emo himself. Ol' Maybe It's Maybelline. Goth John Silver. Euron Greyjoy.
Next weeks director for Ep 3 is the same as last night. Then Ep 4 and 5 has a director new to the series, but he has done 44 episodes of Always Sunny
I think these are great points.
LF has to get his game on and we all know that he has to have something left up his sleeve. Has to. He's the only still playing the game unless you count Dany and her game is simply war and conquest now.
otherwise, LF is never more than one step away from Sansa informing everyone, including the Knights of the Vale, that LF killed Lysa and she only went along with it because he threatened her. They already hate him, his head would be on a pike in seconds. Sansa has this card to play and LF knows it, he has to make a move soon.
Which makes me think even more here, who is really playing who? Sansa has the card to play that will cause LF to lose his head. She knows it and he knows it. Sansa has learned the game from the best. The obvious answer as to why she has not played it - was - she needed the Vale to save Jon. That has been accomplished. So why not reveal it now? I doubt she feels any loyalty to LF. He sold her off to the Boltons and has been creeping on her ever since she got away from them. I'm thinking that maybe LF doesn't have that much of his sleeve and his demise will come at the hands of his student of the game.
LF has to get his game on and we all know that he has to have something left up his sleeve. Has to. He's the only still playing the game unless you count Dany and her game is simply war and conquest now.
otherwise, LF is never more than one step away from Sansa informing everyone, including the Knights of the Vale, that LF killed Lysa and she only went along with it because he threatened her. They already hate him, his head would be on a pike in seconds. Sansa has this card to play and LF knows it, he has to make a move soon.
Which makes me think even more here, who is really playing who? Sansa has the card to play that will cause LF to lose his head. She knows it and he knows it. Sansa has learned the game from the best. The obvious answer as to why she has not played it - was - she needed the Vale to save Jon. That has been accomplished. So why not reveal it now? I doubt she feels any loyalty to LF. He sold her off to the Boltons and has been creeping on her ever since she got away from them. I'm thinking that maybe LF doesn't have that much of his sleeve and his demise will come at the hands of his student of the game.
And the son he still claims is none other than Billy Bones from Black Sails. Don't think you cast a big bad arse like that as an extra. Believe he will have some nice fighting scenes in the near future.hunter2012 said:Dr. Watson said:clinker03 said:
So that was Sam's dad that Jamie was trying to persuade into fighting with the Lannister's, right? I forget, what is his background and does he have a lot of bannermen?
What happened to Nymeria and when did we see her last?
I really enjoyed the episode. Agree that we will see Euron do some crazy **** to his prisoners, it's going to be lit next episode.
That was Randyll Tarley, Sam's dad. He's considered one of the best warriors in Westeros and is very respected. In the books he's on the Small Council following Tywin's death. Nymeria hasn't been seen since season 1. In the books Arya is able to warg into Nymeria at times.
I'm not sure about warriors(can't remember from the books). But he is considered probably the best field commander left in Westeros at this point. He handed Robert his only loss during the rebellion.
I wonder if Randall Tarly is buying the whole "you also pledged loyalty to the crown" over his loyalty to Highgarten, given how the "crown" was not legitimately earned. How can you rely upon the loyalty and customs of the old ways when you have consistently sheet on them throughout your reign? Remember Cersei tearing up King Robert's orders? Ordering the breaking of the bread oath for the Red Wedding?
Its going to be awesome when Randall Tarly chooses Highgarden and then ends up in a in the War Room with Sam who will out rank him.
Assuming everything you just said happens regarding LF....so what?
1) He'll need proof or no one will believe him.
2) Even if he has proof, Jon's parentage as Half Stark/Half Targ would have to prove a problem for Sansa or the Northern folk
I'm not convinced of either of those happening. He's had Jon's entire life to investigate into his lineage. It's not news that Ned coming home with a ******* is now a strange occurrence.
Obviously LF is going to make a play at some point, I'm just not convinced it has anything to do with Jon being a Targaryen. It would seem to contrived and convenient.
(Also, I made mention of 'my mom' as an analogy to Jon's reason for anger. Cat is certainly no mother to him, but he still cares for Sansa and would rightfully be upset to hear a former suitor of Catelyn's is now hoping to make a move on her daughter...especially given the circumstances of Jon paying homage to his (believed) father in the family crypt. Definitely not a setting for LF to bring up that topic of conversation.)
1) He'll need proof or no one will believe him.
2) Even if he has proof, Jon's parentage as Half Stark/Half Targ would have to prove a problem for Sansa or the Northern folk
I'm not convinced of either of those happening. He's had Jon's entire life to investigate into his lineage. It's not news that Ned coming home with a ******* is now a strange occurrence.
Obviously LF is going to make a play at some point, I'm just not convinced it has anything to do with Jon being a Targaryen. It would seem to contrived and convenient.
(Also, I made mention of 'my mom' as an analogy to Jon's reason for anger. Cat is certainly no mother to him, but he still cares for Sansa and would rightfully be upset to hear a former suitor of Catelyn's is now hoping to make a move on her daughter...especially given the circumstances of Jon paying homage to his (believed) father in the family crypt. Definitely not a setting for LF to bring up that topic of conversation.)
I think Sansa will send LF back to the Vale and she'll tell Robin Arryn that LF killed his mom. I think LF is going through the moon door.
I also think there's a chance Sansa is pregnant with Ramsey's baby.
(I seriously hope that I'm wrong about this)
(I seriously hope that I'm wrong about this)
I've been waiting for this possibility, but I think it's been long enough now to be clear of it.JaneDoe02 said:
I also think there's a chance Sansa is pregnant with Ramsey's baby.
(I seriously hope that I'm wrong about this)
I may have missed it during the show, but when Euron destroyed the fleet & captured Yara - were the armies of Dorne and Highgarden on board yet? Or were the ships just in route to pick them up?
I haven't read thru this entire thread, so this might have already been discussed.
I don't think Sansa is pregnant with Ramsey's kid. In the books, they frequently talked about some drug that would cause an abortion. I think she would have used that by now, otherwise the show would have to deviate from what I "think" would have happened in the books.
I think Sansa should send Lyanna Mormont to the Vale to marry the little lord moron. Then LF's power base would be swiped away and he'd be a man without an army.
I don't think Sansa is pregnant with Ramsey's kid. In the books, they frequently talked about some drug that would cause an abortion. I think she would have used that by now, otherwise the show would have to deviate from what I "think" would have happened in the books.
I think Sansa should send Lyanna Mormont to the Vale to marry the little lord moron. Then LF's power base would be swiped away and he'd be a man without an army.
Apache said:
I may have missed it during the show, but when Euron destroyed the fleet & captured Yara - were the armies of Dorne and Highgarden on board yet? Or were the ships just in route to pick them up?
En route
I believe the sisters were talking about when they get to drone below deck
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Quote:
Is everyone else completely dismissing the giant crossbow invention? We're all certain that three dragons will have three riders in the war against the WW, so Qyburn's plan will fail somehow?
I think there was some pretty obvious foreshadowing there, with the crossbow to the eye of the dragon skull, that being the weakest part of the dragon. especially when you consider the theory of Bran ultimately warging into one of them and "seeing thru their eyes". or maybe i am just looking for foreshadowing when none exists.
that all said, i know if a greenseer is killed while warging, their "soul" is lost into that animal forever, but what about if the animal is killed while under control of a greenseer? what happens if, hypothetically, Bran is warged into one of the dragons, and the dragon is killed/reanimated as an ice dragon?
Yeah, I'm expecting at least one dragon, if not two, to bite the dust.
As a bow hunter & an avid bird hunter as well, I have my doubts about the ability of someone to knock a dragon out of the sky with giant arrow. (The thing is called a ballista, btw)
That said, I expect them to kill one & wound the other two.
That said, I expect them to kill one & wound the other two.
Lots and lots of good stuff. Here are some of my thoughts, touching on a lot of the same points y'all have made.
Jon and Littlefinger - it is even more obvious to me that Littlefinger knows who Jon's parents are. Even if he doesn't have proof (and he may, from a bribed servant or something), it's something that is just a common sense realization. I can even see Tyrion figuring it out, simple by following a logical train of thought, a la "Yes, everyone was so shocked when Ned came back from the war with a b-stard; it was so incredibly out of character for him to betray his vows to his wife when honor meant everything to him. He went to Dorne to get his sister who had been kidnapped and ravished by Rhaegar Targaryon for almost a year and came home with...a...baby. And raised it with his own children. Hmm."
Littlefinger has probably made that mental leap too, and once one is looking for proof he may have found it. He might have been keeping it under wraps to use to turn Robert against Ned but didn't have to since Robert died. But he definitely believes that for the Lords of the North there is a world of difference between Ned Stark's son and Rhagaer Targaryion's son no matter who their mothers are. He'll use it when he needs to.
I don't think Jon or Sansa or even Arya know that Littlefinger betrayed Ned and was the one who literally put him on the chopping block - they might, but it's hard to believe that he would still be alive. If they find out, one possible, albeit unlikely, way - one person who does know - was standing right behind the throne when Littlefinger turned on Ned. Both Sansa and Arya have reason to trust the Hound and he's headed up North. I have always had a feeling from the books that Sansa and the Hound will find each other again, not romantically but as allies of some sort. But I'm sure some of that is just wishful thinking on my part because I would love to get all those characters together in the same room.
Olenna Tyrell - THAT is a lady who is ready to watch the world burn. She is smart and tough, but her entire line has been wiped out by Cersei Lannister and Olenna is not exactly a champion of the smallfolk. I think she would be more than happy to see the entirety of Westeros burned to the ground if it meant the destruction of Cersei and the Lannisters. Tyrion knows this and Varys does too, hopefully Dany does.
A thought on Randyll Tarly - this is from the book, but he was one of the strongest Targaryon supporters during the rebellion. He only swore to Robert once Rhager was dead and the war was totally, irrevocably lost. He's swayed by the threat of the Dothraki - justifiably - but he is probably also thinking about the fact that his sworn house Tyrell is supporting the "rightful" Queen whose family he had historically fought for. And he's a brilliant strategist.
Finally, am I the only on that thinks that Euron is planning to betray Cersei? That line about marrying the most beautiful woman in the world made me think he was talking about Dany. I'm not sure what his strategy is but I just have a feeling he plans to align with Dany, the logical winner. Maybe lull Cersei into trusting him with the Dornish "gifts" and then turn on her somehow. Just a feeling, anyway. Maybe he'll just write her some emo poetry. Dany might tell him to pound sand, but he's not a modest guy; he probably figures that if he brings enough to the table she'll align with him.
Jon and Littlefinger - it is even more obvious to me that Littlefinger knows who Jon's parents are. Even if he doesn't have proof (and he may, from a bribed servant or something), it's something that is just a common sense realization. I can even see Tyrion figuring it out, simple by following a logical train of thought, a la "Yes, everyone was so shocked when Ned came back from the war with a b-stard; it was so incredibly out of character for him to betray his vows to his wife when honor meant everything to him. He went to Dorne to get his sister who had been kidnapped and ravished by Rhaegar Targaryon for almost a year and came home with...a...baby. And raised it with his own children. Hmm."
Littlefinger has probably made that mental leap too, and once one is looking for proof he may have found it. He might have been keeping it under wraps to use to turn Robert against Ned but didn't have to since Robert died. But he definitely believes that for the Lords of the North there is a world of difference between Ned Stark's son and Rhagaer Targaryion's son no matter who their mothers are. He'll use it when he needs to.
I don't think Jon or Sansa or even Arya know that Littlefinger betrayed Ned and was the one who literally put him on the chopping block - they might, but it's hard to believe that he would still be alive. If they find out, one possible, albeit unlikely, way - one person who does know - was standing right behind the throne when Littlefinger turned on Ned. Both Sansa and Arya have reason to trust the Hound and he's headed up North. I have always had a feeling from the books that Sansa and the Hound will find each other again, not romantically but as allies of some sort. But I'm sure some of that is just wishful thinking on my part because I would love to get all those characters together in the same room.
Olenna Tyrell - THAT is a lady who is ready to watch the world burn. She is smart and tough, but her entire line has been wiped out by Cersei Lannister and Olenna is not exactly a champion of the smallfolk. I think she would be more than happy to see the entirety of Westeros burned to the ground if it meant the destruction of Cersei and the Lannisters. Tyrion knows this and Varys does too, hopefully Dany does.
A thought on Randyll Tarly - this is from the book, but he was one of the strongest Targaryon supporters during the rebellion. He only swore to Robert once Rhager was dead and the war was totally, irrevocably lost. He's swayed by the threat of the Dothraki - justifiably - but he is probably also thinking about the fact that his sworn house Tyrell is supporting the "rightful" Queen whose family he had historically fought for. And he's a brilliant strategist.
Finally, am I the only on that thinks that Euron is planning to betray Cersei? That line about marrying the most beautiful woman in the world made me think he was talking about Dany. I'm not sure what his strategy is but I just have a feeling he plans to align with Dany, the logical winner. Maybe lull Cersei into trusting him with the Dornish "gifts" and then turn on her somehow. Just a feeling, anyway. Maybe he'll just write her some emo poetry. Dany might tell him to pound sand, but he's not a modest guy; he probably figures that if he brings enough to the table she'll align with him.
I bet one gets turned/killed by the Night King and another is killed by the Lannisters. Drogon will be the only one to survive.DannyDuberstein said:
Yeah, I'm expecting at least one dragon, if not two, to bite the dust.
Are you an episode behind? lolQuote:
I just have a feeling he plans to align with Dany, the logical winner
Sorry, not trying to be snarky...but how do you reconcile Euron destroying Dany's ally and fleet with hopes of eventually joining her? There's 0% chance he aligns with Dany. This was cemented in the last season when Yara basically outed Euron's intentions. He wants to marry Dany to usurp her power with his own. Ain't happenin.
I like the idea of The Hound telling Arya or Sansa about Littlefinger.
Not that it matters much, but I wonder why Robin Arryn isn't at Winterfell as Lord of the Vale? They're now bannerman for the Starks so I assume he should be their to swear loyalty, no?
He has not had reason to seek out a weakness in Jon until very recently. Jon was at the wall completely out of the seven kingdoms issues until tBOB.M.C. Swag said:
Assuming everything you just said happens regarding LF....so what?
1) He'll need proof or no one will believe him.
2) Even if he has proof, Jon's parentage as Half Stark/Half Targ would have to prove a problem for Sansa or the Northern folk
I'm not convinced of either of those happening. He's had Jon's entire life to investigate into his lineage. It's not news that Ned coming home with a ******* is now a strange occurrence.
Now he has reason to find a weakness, the logical place to start would be to find out who is mother is.
As for proof, there is none really but Bran would likely speak up (reluctantly) and confirm.
bangobango said:
I like the idea of The Hound telling Arya or Sansa about Littlefinger.
He would most certainly have had reason to investigate earlier. Jon's parentage would have been a weakness to Ned Stark. If not before he became Hand, certainly after.
Kinda hoping Arya uses Sansa's face to seduce and kill Littlefinger, so hopefully she finds the reason to do so
Yes, exactly! Littlefinger never had reason to dig up dirt on Jon before. Even before he went to the wall, there wasn't any value in selling out a young Jon Snow, who he probably had never talked to before, to Robert. But now that Jon is KOTN and in line ahead of Sansa, he's suddenly much more interested in "how exactly" he is related to the Stark name.Independent George said:He has not had reason to seek out a weakness in Jon until very recently. Jon was at the wall completely out of the seven kingdoms issues until tBOB.M.C. Swag said:
Assuming everything you just said happens regarding LF....so what?
1) He'll need proof or no one will believe him.
2) Even if he has proof, Jon's parentage as Half Stark/Half Targ would have to prove a problem for Sansa or the Northern folk
I'm not convinced of either of those happening. He's had Jon's entire life to investigate into his lineage. It's not news that Ned coming home with a ******* is now a strange occurrence.
Now he has reason to find a weakness, the logical place to start would be to find out who is mother is.
As for proof, there is none really but Bran would likely speak up (reluctantly) and confirm.
That's why I said it was a feeling. I don't think Dany will ally with him; I just think HE believes she will. If he destroys her fleet then she needs a new one, which he can provide. He uses the Dornish to get Cersei's trust, then turns on Cersei and gives her head/King's Landing/the Kingslayer/something to Dany to get her to ally with him. Again, I'm not 100% on that, I just got a strange vibe when Euron was talking to Cersei that he was playing a different game.M.C. Swag said:Are you an episode behind? lolQuote:
I just have a feeling he plans to align with Dany, the logical winner
Sorry, not trying to be snarky...but how do you reconcile Euron destroying Dany's ally and fleet with hopes of eventually joining her? There's 0% chance he aligns with Dany. This was cemented in the last season when Yara basically outed Euron's intentions. He wants to marry Dany to usurp her power with his own. Ain't happenin.
True, though Ned's honor was all the weakness LF needed at the time to easily put him on the chopping block.
Edit: I still think its a bit of a stretch, just can't think of any other moves he has left other than hoping to wooo Sansa.
Edit: I still think its a bit of a stretch, just can't think of any other moves he has left other than hoping to wooo Sansa.
But so what? Jon was just a boy who eventually left for the wall. Having him executed doesn't do anything for Littlefinger. I guess best case scenario is that Robert would kill Ned for hiding a targ from him? That still doesn't really help Littlefinger.M.C. Swag said:
He would most certainly have had reason to investigate earlier. Jon's parentage would have been a weakness to Ned Stark. If not before he became Hand, certainly after.
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