Quote:

---

I have been wondering about something...

In season 1, when Cersei visits injured Bran and talks to Catelyn, she tells her that her first boy died of a fever, and that he had dark hair. She doesn't say how old the boy was, but Catelyn says that she never knew. This seems absurd, since we've never heard any other mention of a 4th Cersei baby, esp. a dark haired boy who died young.

Also, since Robert was already king when Cersei married him, the firstborn son would have been know about by the whole kingdom, and then the death of the prince would have been a national tragedy.

Is Cersei making this up? Or is this bad writing on the part of the show? Does this conversation take place in the books? Did this boy ever exist?

I know this doesn't change anything in our future debates about the show, but it has always bothered me.

---

I think there was debate at the time of that episode on whether or not Cersei was telling the truth. That is definitely not book material. There was also a scene between Cersei and Robert later that season in which they talk about if there was ever any chance for them. I don't think that was in the book either. My best guess is these are included to give Cersei some gray area for the viewers to not completely hate her...

Just rewatched Battle of the *******s last night and planning to finish up Season 6 this weekend before Season 7 starts.

When Davos finds the stag sculpture at the burned out pyre, does he know Melisandre was the cause of Shireen burned as a sacrifice?

Also, that episode might be my all time favorite of the entire series. If the producers continue with that level of budget and scope, I am just fine with 8 full episodes vs stretching material to make 10 episodes.

Who else would be responsible?

I guess the better question is, what did Davos think happened to her? He has obviously figured it out now

redline248 said:

---

Quote:

---

I have been wondering about something...

In season 1, when Cersei visits injured Bran and talks to Catelyn, she tells her that her first boy died of a fever, and that he had dark hair. She doesn't say how old the boy was, but Catelyn says that she never knew. This seems absurd, since we've never heard any other mention of a 4th Cersei baby, esp. a dark haired boy who died young.

Also, since Robert was already king when Cersei married him, the firstborn son would have been know about by the whole kingdom, and then the death of the prince would have been a national tragedy.

Is Cersei making this up? Or is this bad writing on the part of the show? Does this conversation take place in the books? Did this boy ever exist?

I know this doesn't change anything in our future debates about the show, but it has always bothered me.

---

I think there was debate at the time of that episode on whether or not Cersei was telling the truth. That is definitely not book material. There was also a scene between Cersei and Robert later that season in which they talk about if there was ever any chance for them. I don't think that was in the book either. My best guess is these are included to give Cersei some gray area for the viewers to not completely hate her...

---

There is a bit in the book where she talks about aborting a black-haired baby from Robert. Though she doesn't tell that to Cat.

bthomas98 said:

---

I guess the better question is, what did Davos think happened to her? He has obviously figured it out now

---

He probably thought she died after the battle. Wouldn't be uncommon.

Icecream_Ag said:

---

Dr. Watson said:

---

bthomas98 said:

---

I guess the better question is, what did Davos think happened to her? He has obviously figured it out now

---

He probably thought she died after the battle. Wouldn't be uncommon.

---

I thought the reason Jon sent her away was because she confirmed Davos' allegations about burning Shireen.

Did I dream that?

---

Yes that happened.... but they meant at the time he found the stag before that....what did he previously think had happened to her and how did he know she burned her just from the stag? it was all confirmed later but how did he connect those dots.

I think he found the stag near the remains of the pyre. There's not a lot of dots left to connect at that point.

aggietony2010 said:

---

I think he found the stag near the remains of the pyre. There's not a lot of dots left to connect at that point.

---

i wasn't arguing it...i was clarifying his question. that's all.


he was visibly upset after the BotB in Winterfell when he saw her standing across the courtyard on a deck. i think he knew but wanted to confirm and did.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

---

Icecream_Ag said:

---

Dr. Watson said:

---

bthomas98 said:

---

I guess the better question is, what did Davos think happened to her? He has obviously figured it out now

---

He probably thought she died after the battle. Wouldn't be uncommon.

---

I thought the reason Jon sent her away was because she confirmed Davos' allegations about burning Shireen.

Did I dream that?

---

Yes that happened.... but they meant at the time he found the stag before that....what did he previously think had happened to her and how did he know she burned her just from the stag? it was all confirmed later but how did he connect those dots.

---

oh. Wasn't there something showing if was stannis camp? Banner or something on the ground? And he carved the stag so knew who it belonged to. Pretty sure it was found in the remains of a pyre as well.

I thought he questioned Melisandre about Shireens location and she dodged the question, that's why he went to look.

Dr. Watson said:

---

redline248 said:

---

Quote:

---

I have been wondering about something...

In season 1, when Cersei visits injured Bran and talks to Catelyn, she tells her that her first boy died of a fever, and that he had dark hair. She doesn't say how old the boy was, but Catelyn says that she never knew. This seems absurd, since we've never heard any other mention of a 4th Cersei baby, esp. a dark haired boy who died young.

Also, since Robert was already king when Cersei married him, the firstborn son would have been know about by the whole kingdom, and then the death of the prince would have been a national tragedy.

Is Cersei making this up? Or is this bad writing on the part of the show? Does this conversation take place in the books? Did this boy ever exist?

I know this doesn't change anything in our future debates about the show, but it has always bothered me.

---

I think there was debate at the time of that episode on whether or not Cersei was telling the truth. That is definitely not book material. There was also a scene between Cersei and Robert later that season in which they talk about if there was ever any chance for them. I don't think that was in the book either. My best guess is these are included to give Cersei some gray area for the viewers to not completely hate her...

---

There is a bit in the book where she talks about aborting a black-haired baby from Robert. Though she doesn't tell that to Cat.

---

Aborted using Moon Tea... she tells that to Eddard

Quote:

---

"A dozen years," Ned said. "How is it that you have had no children by the king?"

She lifted her head, defiant. "Your Robert got me with child once," she said, her voice thick with contempt. "My brother found a woman to cleanse me. He never knew. If truth be told, I can scarcely bear for him to touch me, and I have not let him inside me for years. I know other ways to pleasure him, when he leaves his *****s long enough to stagger up to my bedchamber. Whatever we do, the king is usually so drunk that he's forgotten it all by the next morning."

---

Re-watched the last two episodes of Season 6. Totally forgot that Sam took Heartsbane when he left the Tarly castle for the Citadel. Taking Heartsbane was a big deal. Surely Lord Randal would notice it gone instantly and send men looking for Sam. Which makes the act all the more improbable considering Sam is pretty sharp and knows his father will want the family's Valaryian blade back, desperately. It's a huge risk. And being that Sam was not just sent to the Citadel to forge his chain, but to research the WW's and how they were defeated before, and has Heartsbane in his possession...........Heartsbane has to be Light Bringer. Has to be. Why else have Sam steal it?

Urban Ag said:

---

Re-watched the last two episodes of Season 6. Totally forgot that Sam took Heartsbane when he left the Tarly castle for the Citadel. Taking Heartsbane was a big deal. Surely Lord Randal would notice it gone instantly and send men looking for Sam. Which makes the act all the more improbable considering Sam is pretty sharp and knows his father will want the family's Valaryian blade back, desperately. It's a huge risk. And being that Sam was not just sent to the Citadel to forge his chain, but to research the WW's and how they were defeated before, and has Heartsbane in his possession...........Heartsbane has to be Light Bringer. Has to be. Why else have Sam steal it?

---

Rewatch Episode 6 of season 6 (I watched it last night). Randall Tarly explains that it's been in the Tarly family "for over 5 centuries..." (Where did it come from? We don't know...)

Gilly: Sam, That's your father's sword.
Sam: It's.. my family's sword.
Gilly: Sam, won't he come for it?
Sam: He can bloody well try...

How fitting would it be that craven Sam would come to realize he had Light Bringer in his possession and takes it north to Jon (Azor) to save the Realm.

I was thinking back on that episode the other day. Surely the sword has to have some major significance but then again Gendry is still out there rowing around somewhere

It's significant only because it is Valyrian steel. All the Valyrian steel weapons have slowly been accumulating in the hands of the folks most likely to be on the front lines against the White Walkers. Sam probably won't be fighting but he'll show up in the North at a critical juncture to give a helpful hint about the White Walkers and deliver Heartsbane to someone who can put it to good use.

So of the ones we know about....

Jon has one.
Sam has one
Brienne has one
Joffreys (I assume) is still in Kings Landing.

Any others out there of note?

Sasappis said:

---

Little fingers dagger.

It would be fitting to see it make a crucial reappearance. Maybe as bran s personal weapon.

---

I completely forgot / missed that...when is that mentioned?

Same here.

It isn't mentioned. Sas is saying "wouldn't it be cool if".

Edit....it is totally mentioned that it is Valrian steel, if that is what you mean.

It's in both

Yep. There are only five known/verified Valaryian steel weapons in Westoros.

Longclaw - with Jon
Oathkeeper (formerly Ice) - with Brienne
Widow's Wail (formerly Ice) - with Jamie or in KL
Heartsbane - with Sam
the dagger - not sure where it resides now

Five weapons against the WW and their massive horde will not change the tide. Almost ridiculous to even consider. And since HBO went out of it's way to introduce Heartsbane in S6 and give it some backstory, I don't think that is insignificant at all, nor just some medium to get another Valaryian blade in to the mix for the War to Come.

In the show maybe, in the books there are about half a dozen moreZ

OnlyForNow said:

---

In the show maybe, in the books there are about half a dozen moreZ

---

Who owns the others in the books?