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Man, a lot happened in that one. Euron's scene did more than half a book to make me care about the Iron Born.

Also, Dany is a 10. It is known.

Fake Sansa was worth the price of seeing the dong.

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I actually thought the Euron scene was pretty ****ty compared to the books. So much more happens than a little speech. The character is also much more intriguing in the book.

I posted this over in the other thread, but I think it's more like the Terminator version of time travel. It's all one big loop that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Not a Butterfly Effect version of time travel, where they can constantly go back and change things. All IMO of course.

And the whole time I was expecting him to start doing the mighty ducks chant.

What an episode.

Pour one out for Hodor and Summer. Winter's here.

This is from HBO's website:

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Outside the door of the cave, Meera pulls the sledge into the blizzard, yelling for Hodor to "hold the door" against the relentless wights. As he does so, his past-self, Wylis - linked to him through Bran's powers - begins to repeat Meera's command. The dead grasp at Hodor, tearing at him, but he refuses to let them through, sacrificing himself to save his friends. In the past, Bran watches the convulsing young Wylis fuse "Hold the door" into one word: "Hodor." The only word he'll ever speak again

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Pretty crazy how Bran could warg into present Hodor while seeing the past. That's Inception level stuff.

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Alright, what the hell? They make such a big deal out of the direwolves early but they just die off in meaningless fashion.

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No, they really didn't. Cracks me up everyone getting pissed about it. Summer had like maybe fifteen minutes of screen time in six seasons. Most people who didn't read the books (see more people than did) probably don't even remember the damn things name. Yet everyone's complaining it didn't get a good enough send off.

I doubt hardly any non-book readers care about Summer. They're all #holdthedoor after that episode, as they should be. That **** was powerful.

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Alright, what the hell? They make such a big deal out of the direwolves early but they just die off in meaningless fashion.

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No, they really didn't. Cracks me up everyone getting pissed about. Summer had like maybe fifteen minutes of screen time. Most people who didn't read the books (see more people than did) probably don't even remember the damn things name. Yet everyone's complaining it didn't get a good enough send off.

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I think the thing people are frustrated with is that they were supposed to be symbolic of the Starks and also powerful beasts.

Think about how they've died.

Lady - executed
Grey Wind - Shot while trapped in a cage
Sh****dog - Put down offscreen by the Umbers/mostly liked betrayed
Summer - Diving into a pile of wrights (granted this was a sacrifice to save Bran)

You don't see the show killing one of those damn dragons off. **** dragons. I want to see the wolves win some ****.

Biggest thing I'm struggling with is Arya's motivation to become a Faceless Man. Give up all she has, including her list, to become a "no one" servant to some foreign death cult?

I think Arya went there because she was driven purely by revenge, and now she has to convince herself to believe she is no one in order to actually complete the training. I fully believe she doesn't truly buy into leaving her past behind.

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Direwolves are things of lore in ASOFAI world. Supposed to be big as horses. They are vastly underplayed by the show and most people just don't like seeing the "good dog friend" die.

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This. The show has completely underestimated people's love for dogs. Spending the money on badass dire wolves would have gone a long way. Their f up of the wolves is really my only complaint. To have that take away from a "mind blown" amazing twist that was Hodor, is a shame.

Btw, just want to tip the cap, the Hodor = Hold the door is just really great writing by Martin. Big time props for that.

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Alright, what the hell? They make such a big deal out of the direwolves early but they just die off in meaningless fashion.

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No, they really didn't. Cracks me up everyone getting pissed about it. Summer had like maybe fifteen minutes of screen time in six seasons. Most people who didn't read the books (see more people than did) probably don't even remember the damn things name. Yet everyone's complaining it didn't get a good enough send off.

I doubt hardly any non-book readers care about Summer. They're all #holdthedoor after that episode, as they should be. That **** was powerful.

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This is the book thread, jackass. In this thread, we love the direwolves, and they were made out to be a big deal with their connection to the Stark children.

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Btw, just want to tip the cap, the Hodor = Hold the door is just really great writing by Martin. Big time props for that.

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Exactly my thought. That was a plot bomb that completely changes the character for me. I love a truth that is out in the open but reveals something new when all the details are revealed. We all knew who Hodor was, but the why is a full paradigm shift. Excellent writing, I'm glad he was able to keep it ambiguous enough to have this massive reveal. I'd say this was as powerful a scene as any in the series, minor plot wise but still extremely powerful.

Also it's pathetic how much people get worked up over animals. In the show they are little more than fodder because they've taken the Stark children's collective warging ability. On Bran has it as the new 3er. So yeah I could care less with one of the wolves dies, so long as the wolf served a purpose(like holding off a horde of wights for a few seconds was good enough for me). The books I hold to a higher standard.

I like where Bran's story is going, I wonder where he will setup shop as the new 3er. Isle of faces anyone?

Also the Mereen Red Priestess, hot hot hot.

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Btw, just want to tip the cap, the Hodor = Hold the door is just really great writing by Martin. Big time props for that.

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Exactly my thought. That was a plot bomb that completely changes the character for me. I love a truth that is out in the open but reveals something new when all the details are revealed. We all knew who Hodor was, but the why is a full paradigm shift. Excellent writing, I'm glad he was able to keep it ambiguous enough to have this massive reveal. I'd say this was as powerful a scene as any in the series, minor plot wise but still extremely powerful.

Also it's pathetic how much people get worked up over animals. In the show they are little more than fodder because they've taken the Stark children's collective warging ability. On Bran has it as the new 3er. So yeah I could care less with one of the wolves dies, so long as the wolf served a purpose(like holding off a horde of wights for a few seconds was good enough for me). The books I hold to a higher standard.

I like where Bran's story is going, I wonder where he will setup shop as the new 3er. Isle of faces anyone?

Also the Mereen Red Priestess, hot hot hot.

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It's pathetic? Did you torture animals as a child?

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Btw, just want to tip the cap, the Hodor = Hold the door is just really great writing by Martin. Big time props for that.

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Exactly my thought. That was a plot bomb that completely changes the character for me. I love a truth that is out in the open but reveals something new when all the details are revealed. We all knew who Hodor was, but the why is a full paradigm shift. Excellent writing, I'm glad he was able to keep it ambiguous enough to have this massive reveal. I'd say this was as powerful a scene as any in the series, minor plot wise but still extremely powerful.

Also it's pathetic how much people get worked up over animals. In the show they are little more than fodder because they've taken the Stark children's collective warging ability. On Bran has it as the new 3er. So yeah I could care less with one of the wolves dies, so long as the wolf served a purpose(like holding off a horde of wights for a few seconds was good enough for me). The books I hold to a higher standard.

I like where Bran's story is going, I wonder where he will setup shop as the new 3er. Isle of faces anyone?

Also the Mereen Red Priestess, hot hot hot.

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It's pathetic? Did you torture animals as a child?

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Exactly my point, being defensive over a very minor animal character dying while ignoring all the commentary over a human character prove my point. To put it simply I never got emotionally attached to my pets and other animals, nor do I understand why others do so. I just think it's sad/funny how so many people elevate animals over actual people, whether that be real life or fiction. Tonight was one of the coolest revelations about the ASOIAF universe and many are torn up because Bran's direwolf did what it was supposed to, it protected it's master to the bitter end. I honestly had the same reaction to that as I did to Leaf blowing up, a "that sucks", followed by "what's going to happen?".

...and no I didn't torture animals as a child. Just for the record.

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Btw, just want to tip the cap, the Hodor = Hold the door is just really great writing by Martin. Big time props for that.

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Exactly my thought. That was a plot bomb that completely changes the character for me. I love a truth that is out in the open but reveals something new when all the details are revealed. We all knew who Hodor was, but the why is a full paradigm shift. Excellent writing, I'm glad he was able to keep it ambiguous enough to have this massive reveal. I'd say this was as powerful a scene as any in the series, minor plot wise but still extremely powerful.

Also it's pathetic how much people get worked up over animals. In the show they are little more than fodder because they've taken the Stark children's collective warging ability. On Bran has it as the new 3er. So yeah I could care less with one of the wolves dies, so long as the wolf served a purpose(like holding off a horde of wights for a few seconds was good enough for me). The books I hold to a higher standard.

I like where Bran's story is going, I wonder where he will setup shop as the new 3er. Isle of faces anyone?

Also the Mereen Red Priestess, hot hot hot.

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It's pathetic? Did you torture animals as a child?

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Exactly my point, being defensive over a very minor animal character dying while ignoring all the commentary over a human character prove my point. To put it simply I never got emotionally attached to my pets and other animals, nor do I understand why others do so. I just think it's sad/funny how so many people elevate animals over actual people, whether that be real life or fiction. Tonight was one of the coolest revelations about the ASOIAF universe and many are torn up because Bran's direwolf did what it was supposed to, it protected it's master to the bitter end. I honestly had the same reaction to that as I did to Leaf blowing up, a "that sucks", followed by "what's going to happen?".

...and no I didn't torture animals as a child. Just for the record.

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I think that's why most people are pissed. Including myself. Storytelling wise I think GRRM missed a HUGE opportunity with the direwolves. A pack of near mythical baby creatures that have not been seen in hundreds of years and symbolically linked to each one of the Stark children.....only to have one minor story progression(attack on Joffrey), they are just being killed off for pretty much nothing. There is no meaning or story advancement for them dying. They could have been the dragons of the North. From a writing standpoint it is just kinda pointless fluff. Even tonight where Summer attacked the wights....it really was pointless. I promise they could have just as easily not have had that happen and still got the point across. Honestly, GRRM could have just not even created them and nobody would miss them. It just puzzles me tis all. GRRM has created one of the most amazing stories I could even imagine.....but looking at the direwolves specifically and objectively....that part is just lazy writing to me.

And the whole animals thing in general is purely subjective of course. I always get emotionally attached to my pets and other animals, and don't understand why others don't. I pretty much always elevate animals over people. In real life and fiction.

I also prefer mustard on my fries over ketchup.

Just saying...

You've hit on the exact point though. This is a deconstruction of the fantasy genre that constantly turns the tropes and cliches of the genre on its head.

The wolves are symbols for the Starks, and like the Starks they often die/suffer for no greater meaning than there was a crappy situation they got into.

Most of the character deaths serve no cosmic purpose. There is rarely a greater nobility. Rather people die because that's what reality is like instead of the realm of fantasy.

Life is brutal and harsh. Horrible things happen to good people. Monstrous people succeed. Death often strikes the noble because the world is not concerned with balance and justice. We find such systems unfair, but the world does not owe us fairness.