quote:
The Bloody Gate guards one entrance to the Vale. The Eyrie is the castle which serves as the principal seat of House Arryn, and it is miles and miles away from the Bloody Gate.
That's miles and miles?
***Official GAME OF THRONES Season 6 (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***
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Last: 8 yr ago by hunter2012
That's miles and miles?
quote:Wow, I did not recall that they changed the geography that much from the books to the show. In the books, it was a very long day's ride for Cat and Co when they left the Mountains of the Moon with Tyrion/Bronn in tow before they reached the Eyrie.quote:
The Bloody Gate guards one entrance to the Vale. The Eyrie is the castle which serves as the principal seat of House Arryn, and it is miles and miles away from the Bloody Gate.
That's miles and miles?
Of course, the Eyrie in that picture bears zero resemblance to the Eyrie in the books, too.
quote:His character is a hypocritical little **** who needs to die painfully, though. But a well done little ****.
I thought Jonathan Pryce was amazing last night. That monologue to Margaery was nails. Terrific actor.
quote:I hope Theon and Sansa kill him together. Slowly and definitely severing his wanker.quote:IMO Theon kills Ramsay at some point after the Basterd Bowl
What about Theon? Surely his character arc ends up with some kind of redemption, right?
We don't know what the high sparrow told Tomen, or what Tomen told Cersie. Cerise could have made up Margery's walk of shame to motivate the Tyrell's.
quote:In the previews for next week she asks him if he knew (what a basterd Ramsay is). Either way he deserves a punch in the face. I hope he really didn't, but it's hard to believe he had no idea. If he didn't, I hope he helps to get Ramsay both through the Vale support or another devious move. I also hope if he didn't he feels sincerely bad for Sansa and apologizes to her.
Sansa is also one of the few who truly knows who little finger is and what he is capable of. She will never fully trust him.
You just never know with him. The actors portrayal of him is excellent.
quote:quote:In the previews for next week she asks him if he knew (what a basterd Ramsay is). Either way he deserves a punch in the face. I hope he really didn't, but it's hard to believe he had no idea. If he didn't, I hope he helps to get Ramsay both through the Vale support or another devious move. I also hope if he didn't he feels sincerely bad for Sansa and apologizes to her.
Sansa is also one of the few who truly knows who little finger is and what he is capable of. She will never fully trust him.
You just never know with him. The actors portrayal of him is excellent.
And even if he says he didn't know you'll never know for sure.
What I really wonder is if littlefinger will tell Sansa what he knows or thinks about jons parentage. It was obvious in the crypts he knows. Could be we the viewers find out through Bran but Sansa and Jon may find out from littlefinger. Info like that could be important for establishing the north under a stark.
However you also have to remember littlefinger wanted to be warden of the north so he wouldn't want jon to know that. Maybe.
He the ultimate board game player here with many little plots working.
Littlefinger doesn't want to be warden of the north. LF wants to be king. Chaos is a ladder, rung by rung he ascends. Warden of the north was only a possibility if X, and that isn't his destination or desire.
quote:True. He's a total chameleon.
And even if he says he didn't know you'll never know for sure.
He's very suave too, look how he handled the freak moon-door-happy-teet-sucking freak last night.
I thought only Ned(and possibly Howland Reed) knows Jon's true parentage. If Catelyn and Robert didn't know then how would littlefinger? He could have stirred much more chaos if he had told Robert and Robert tried to kill Jon like he did with Dany.
quote:
Littlefinger doesn't want to be warden of the north. LF wants to be king. Chaos is a ladder, rung by rung he ascends. Warden of the north was only a possibility if X, and that isn't his destination or desire.
Agreed. He could change course. Cuz he wanted warden of the north assuming all stark male heirs were MIA or vowed to the nights watch.
He may realize working with a stark may be more beneficial.
How long were LF and Lysa Arryn ****ing? Any chance of Robin being his kid?
If Dany makes it to Westeros, she will have the finest cavalry known in their world with the Dothraki AND the finest/most feared foot soldiers in the Unsullied. Her dragons effectively give her an "air" force from which to attack from above. Even if Westeros could combine their forces, they would be fighting a losing war with Dany given the impact the recent conflicts have had on them, as well as conflicts to come (BoB and Riverrun). I think that Dany put the fear of God in the Dothraki...they literally bowed to her (in my opinion, like a horse that has been broken). She has them fully under control. The problem is, with the exception of the dragons, their weapons are worthless against White Walkers and wights. Sure, I think she can secure Westeros as it stands today, but things still look dicey for the final confrontation we all know is coming.
This article came out last week on the actor, Aiden Gillen, playing Littlefinger. Interesting.
I was going to post two sentences from that, but if you don't want to know, that's not fair, so I'm posting the article link only, but it answers a few things. Click if you want.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/11/game-thrones-littlefinger
I will say that the actor playing him has gotten better looking with age.
I was going to post two sentences from that, but if you don't want to know, that's not fair, so I'm posting the article link only, but it answers a few things. Click if you want.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/11/game-thrones-littlefinger
I will say that the actor playing him has gotten better looking with age.
quote:
How long were LF and Lysa Arryn ****ing? Any chance of Robin being his kid?
It only happened once (before LF married her): the night that LF thought he was banging catelyn, but instead it was Lysa with the lights off.
Am I the only one enjoying this season more than any of the previous ones? The plot is moving forward rapidly & I am happy with my ignorance of what will happen with some of the story arcs. Martin should probably have Winds of Winter out this fall (was supposed to be last fall, so maybe he really is close) & it will be interesting to see how far the book & show deviate.
quote:
I thought only Ned(and possibly Howland Reed) knows Jon's true parentage. If Catelyn and Robert didn't know then how would littlefinger? He could have stirred much more chaos if he had told Robert and Robert tried to kill Jon like he did with Dany.
Ok well.......let's dive into this then......how could Littlefinger know?????
There is no question that when he was in the crypts with Sansa he gave a rather knowing look when she talked about Lyanna and how she died. But it could have simply been that he surmised what has happened from the story he has heard - just like book readers surmised it. sometimes people too close to a story (the Starks) are so emotional they don't see it with the same view as people external to it who are not emotionally tied to it. There is a ton of circumstantial evidence.
But could it be more than that?
We know Littlefinger has lots of low level informants. They tend to be the easiest to pry info from. And sometimes common people go unnoticed. Royals tend to not even notice them sometimes.
So let's analyze the TOJ scene as shown and described in the books (its basically the same, minus a couple of combatants).
We already know that the version told by Ned is a lie of sorts. On more than one count. He said Howland Reed saved his life but never mentioned he was basically beaten and Howland stabbed Dayne in the back. A lie by omission at the very least. We also know that he made a promise and never (apparently) told anyone. Another omission of sorts. So do you think all the rest of the story is 100% accurate?
We also know Ned was specific about who was there. It was seven against three. And he went so far as to name not only knights but he named Brandons former squire as one of the seven as well.
Now as we saw in the show (which seems to follow the book) Ned went into the tower first after the fight. Howland was injured and it might have taken him some time to get up there himself. New would have been in a hurry of course, it makes sense. Why do I say that follows the books? Well consider this passage from early in the first book where Ned is talking to Robert about Lyanna and that event (and everything leading up to it)....
quote:
"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was . . . fond of flowers."
So....if there were only the 7 against 3 and EVERYONE was dead except Ned (now with Lyanna) and then Howland comes into the room.......who is THEY??????
It is entirely possible....even probable I think....that Lyanna had a midwife there (possibly even Wylla). Lets be logical nobody, but especially nobility, gives birth all alone. Rhaegar thought it important enough to guard her with kingsguard but otherwise she was ALONE to give birth to his child and care for it in an era without hopitals and adequate medical care. I think not.
Ned could have been talking simply about who was there (outside) in the battle and not who was there at the tower. In fact he says she died from fever. Perhaps she had given birth before (even days before) and the bed was still covered in blood (doubtful they had a change of sheets, this isn't the Hilton) and a midwife/wet nurse is caring for the infant (in another room possibly even). So Ned comes in and finds her dying and that is the way he told the story leaving out some important details as part of the coverup. Perhaps when Howland comes in the midwife had then followed and joined him - thus "they" found him still holding her body.
Now this could be a mistake in the books - unlikely however. Editors are good about that and often a mistake is fixed in subsequent printings. But it still says "they" in all versions of the book.
So....if there was a midwife and she was always nameless you've got a common person who knows the truth. Maybe Ned set her up with a nice gig and bought her silence.....but people talk. And commoners talk to other commoners....Littlefinger could have a witness to it all.
I'm just saying......
Last season covered much of books 4-5...which were slow. So it was naturally slow.
I'm enjoying this season immensely.
I'm enjoying this season immensely.
I'll play the skeptic, here.
What if she didn't give birth? Is the description always that the room smells of blood and roses? Is it ever described specifically as Lyanna lying in a pool of blood in any of the books? I honestly don't remember. Ned just got done fighting and killing dudes, he could be smelling the blood on his body from the fight.
Why are the rose petals black? Would someone give a new mother black roses as a gift?
edit: I guess they are just black b/c they are old and dead?
What if she didn't give birth? Is the description always that the room smells of blood and roses? Is it ever described specifically as Lyanna lying in a pool of blood in any of the books? I honestly don't remember. Ned just got done fighting and killing dudes, he could be smelling the blood on his body from the fight.
Why are the rose petals black? Would someone give a new mother black roses as a gift?
edit: I guess they are just black b/c they are old and dead?
Good catch on the "they", I agree as well that a reference that important wouldn't be a typo. I agree with your theory as well. It's entirely possible she was just a local midwife near the ToJ so Little finger could have probably tracked her down with little trouble. My question is why didn't he tell anybody, especially Robert. He could have forced a wedge between Ned and Robert that would have started much more chaos than what happened.
Yes, the book describes it specifically as Lyanna lay in a "bed of blood."
I states that she is lying in her "bed of blood" or something to that effect.
quote:
I'll play the skeptic, here.
What if she didn't give birth? Is the description always that the room smells of blood and roses? Is it ever described specifically as Lyanna lying in a pool of blood in any of the books? I honestly don't remember. Ned just got done fighting and killing dudes, he could be smelling the blood on his body from the fight.
Why are the rose petals black? Would someone give a new mother black roses as a gift?
edit: I guess they are just black b/c they are old and dead?
The blood is assumed to be hers, the face value is that it's a result of torture and rape(as Robert would have interpreted it). Before reading about the ToJ theory I think most book readers just accepted Robert's account in the book, especially since it was early on and we didn't know him yet.
I think the rose petals are reminiscent of their romance in the tower. Rhaegar was long gone from the tower to the war so it makes sense that they would be completely wilted away.
quote:And is also referenced many other times, in regards to other families and child birth. So in his world, that phrase means childbirth. Not that hard.
I states that she is lying in her "bed of blood" or something to that effect.
The reference to fever also connotes childbirth. Most women who died of "childbirth" actually die of puerperal infection, which sets in afterwards. Historically it was a leading cause of mortality for young women. I mentioned this up thread, maybe it's just cause I'm a woman, but Lyanna dying of fever in a bed of blood could not have been clearer to me when I first read it.
That doesn't mean she isn't bleeding from a different type of wound and dying of a fever associated with that, but the evidence is strong from the text that she's given birth.
That doesn't mean she isn't bleeding from a different type of wound and dying of a fever associated with that, but the evidence is strong from the text that she's given birth.
Littlefinger is still a little **** and I'm still hoping someone takes him out. Plus he is way to creepy of a guy with his thing for Sansa since he can no longer have Catelyn.
quote:
Littlefinger is still a little **** and I'm still hoping someone takes him out. Plus he is way to creepy of a guy with his thing for Sansa since he can no longer have Catelyn.
I agree, it's disgusting. But I hope Sansa uses it to her advantage before someone offs him.
quote:
The reference to fever also connotes childbirth. Most women who died of "childbirth" actually die of puerperal infection, which sets in afterwards. Historically it was a leading cause of mortality for young women. I mentioned this up thread, maybe it's just cause I'm a woman, but Lyanna dying of fever in a bed of blood could not have been clearer to me when I first read it.
That doesn't mean she isn't bleeding from a different type of wound and dying of a fever associated with that, but the evidence is strong from the text that she's given birth.
Yes and that fever (typically after a birth) lends credence to the idea that she already gave birth....and someone is caring for the child. Lyanna most likely couldn't.
Re Littlefinger figuring out Jon's parentage. I've long though that somebody smart was going to stumble on it just by matter of deduction - not on any proof, but by actually thinking it over. Littlefinger and Tyrion were two I could see figuring it out. I always imagined Tyrion talking to Dany about the rebellion and it going something like this:
"Robert always claimed that Rhaegor had kidnapped and raped Lyanna but I always wondered if she chose him over a man like Robert. They were together for nearly a year before Robert killed him. Not that it matters now. Ned Stark went to Dorne to get her and came home with her body and a ******* boy of his own - completely out of character for him, by the way, the man was the soul of honor but somehow came home ... with a baby. From Dorne. I'll be damned."
Or something like that. Again, not that it establishes any proof, but I could see them figuring it out. Littlefinger could easily have followed a similar thought process, and then used his contacts to check on some things - like why in the world 3 members of the Kingsguard were at TOJ.
"Robert always claimed that Rhaegor had kidnapped and raped Lyanna but I always wondered if she chose him over a man like Robert. They were together for nearly a year before Robert killed him. Not that it matters now. Ned Stark went to Dorne to get her and came home with her body and a ******* boy of his own - completely out of character for him, by the way, the man was the soul of honor but somehow came home ... with a baby. From Dorne. I'll be damned."
Or something like that. Again, not that it establishes any proof, but I could see them figuring it out. Littlefinger could easily have followed a similar thought process, and then used his contacts to check on some things - like why in the world 3 members of the Kingsguard were at TOJ.
quote:
In reply to jenn96
Quote:
The reference to fever also connotes childbirth. Most women who died of "childbirth" actually die of puerperal infection, which sets in afterwards. Historically it was a leading cause of mortality for young women. I mentioned this up thread, maybe it's just cause I'm a woman, but Lyanna dying of fever in a bed of blood could not have been clearer to me when I first read it.
That doesn't mean she isn't bleeding from a different type of wound and dying of a fever associated with that, but the evidence is strong from the text that she's given birth.
Yes and that fever (typically after a birth) lends credence to the idea that she already gave birth....and someone is caring for the child. Lyanna most likely couldn't.
Completely agree. I suspect that's how Wylla comes into the story, since she was a wet nurse.
Nm
Oh ****. Troll outed.
Does this mean staff is gonna lock the thread?
Nm
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