Ariast Arc

I always took this comment to mean that Bran would be a dragon rider.

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I always took this comment to mean that Bran would be a dragon rider.

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Interesting. I never read it that way at all. I read the statement as being metaphorical, in reference to his ability to go anywhere and do anything via his visions.

ETA:
and warging. I tend to equate the two sometimes.

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I always took this comment to mean that Bran would be a dragon rider.

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Interesting. I never read it that way at all. I read the statement as being metaphorical, in reference to his ability to go anywhere and do anything via has visions.

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I took it as not the literal flying of dragons....but warging into a dragon (or dragons) on behalf of Jon most likely.

Pages back we discussed who has the most legit claim to the Iron Throne if Tommen dies without a child?

Somebody did the research. Turns out it's Cersei. So, if she dies before Tommen, he's actually the rightful King, even with no relation to Robert Baratheon.

Who's up after Tommen?

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Pages back we discussed who has the most legit claim to the Iron Throne if Tommen dies without a child?

Somebody did the research. Turns out it's Cersei. So, if she dies before Tommen, he's actually the rightful King, even with no relation to Robert Baratheon.

Who's up after Tommen?

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There is a big problem with that theory. Robert had a claim to the throne as opposed to a Lannister, Martell or Stark when he revolted because his grandmother was a Targ. The Baratheons have not ruled long enough to have enough legitimacy to have some random Baratheon 6 generations up with no legit (qualifier included because the first baratheon was allegedly the ******* brother of the conqueror) Targ ancestry become King without the other lords wondering why it should not be then.

If the claim comes via legitimate Targ blood and the spawn of the mad king are excluded, it would then devolve to the Martells via Daenerys Targaryen sister of Daeron II.

Otherwise the death of Tommen without Dany showing up will lead to the Heptarchy.

Sounds too complicated; likely I'd imagine the High Septon will step in to crown the new King(once Tommen dies) baring a conquest by Dany...the High Septon/Sparrow who conviently wants to get rid of the royalty all together it seems.

Sounds like Democracy is coming to Westeros!

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omg Gendry is Azor Ahai

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Season 8, Episode 7, The Finale, Minute 53:

The Night King lifts his sword over a bloodied Jon Snow and says, "There is no Azor Ahai". Sword flashes down. Fade to black.

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Or TNK says...

"I am Azor Ahai"

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Tower of joy scene with light sabers



**AWESOME ALERT**

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I was waiting for this, the second I saw that scene I figured someone would put light sabers to it.

One thing we now know is that the old gods' vision/observance isn't linked to the weirwood trees.

The southerners cut em all down in their kingdoms, there was question if treebran could see in the south without a tree there

I think the book said the weirwoods were required to see the past.

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Pages back we discussed who has the most legit claim to the Iron Throne if Tommen dies without a child?

Somebody did the research. Turns out it's Cersei. So, if she dies before Tommen, he's actually the rightful King, even with no relation to Robert Baratheon.

Who's up after Tommen?

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There is a big problem with that theory. Robert had a claim to the throne as opposed to a Lannister, Martell or Stark when he revolted because his grandmother was a Targ. The Baratheons have not ruled long enough to have enough legitimacy to have some random Baratheon 6 generations up with no legit (qualifier included because the first baratheon was allegedly the ******* brother of the conqueror) Targ ancestry become King without the other lords wondering why it should not be then.

If the claim comes via legitimate Targ blood and the spawn of the mad king are excluded, it would then devolve to the Martells via Daenerys Targaryen sister of Daeron II.

Otherwise the death of Tommen without Dany showing up will lead to the Heptarchy.

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You try to base it on Targaryen bloodlines when they make no difference. Robert sat on the throne not because he had some Targaryen blood from a relative. Its because he gathered the banners, rebeled against the King and proceeded to whoop ass. He won the war and was the leader of the rebellion so he won the crown. Therefore, it no longer matters what Targaryen bloodlines are in play. The crown right now is Baratheon and therefore all Baratheon bloodlines are in viable for the crown if Tommen dies. Not Targaryen.

Not so. Ned Stark and John arryn had just as much claim as Robert if "indignant usurpers" was the standard.

But Ned recognized that with the pure targaryens dead and exiled, the baratheon line had the strongest claim.

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Pages back we discussed who has the most legit claim to the Iron Throne if Tommen dies without a child?

Somebody did the research. Turns out it's Cersei. So, if she dies before Tommen, he's actually the rightful King, even with no relation to Robert Baratheon.

Who's up after Tommen?

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There is a big problem with that theory. Robert had a claim to the throne as opposed to a Lannister, Martell or Stark when he revolted because his grandmother was a Targ. The Baratheons have not ruled long enough to have enough legitimacy to have some random Baratheon 6 generations up with no legit (qualifier included because the first baratheon was allegedly the ******* brother of the conqueror) Targ ancestry become King without the other lords wondering why it should not be then.

If the claim comes via legitimate Targ blood and the spawn of the mad king are excluded, it would then devolve to the Martells via Daenerys Targaryen sister of Daeron II.

Otherwise the death of Tommen without Dany showing up will lead to the Heptarchy.

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You try to base it on Targaryen bloodlines when they make no difference. Robert sat on the throne not because he had some Targaryen blood from a relative. Its because he gathered the banners, rebeled against the King and proceeded to whoop ass. He won the war and was the leader of the rebellion so he won the crown. Therefore, it no longer matters what Targaryen bloodlines are in play. The crown right now is Baratheon and therefore all Baratheon bloodlines are in viable for the crown if Tommen dies. Not Targaryen.

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Robert was not the first to rebel. The first was Jon Arryn when he refused to send Aerys Ned's and Robert's head. Heck if Aerys had not asked for Robert's head he may not even have been part of the rebellion.

Robert became the candidate for the throne because unlike Ned, Jon or Hoster Tully he could claim legit Targ blood and thus was a viable if weak contender to the Iron Throne over the other Lords Paramount of the former seven kingdoms. There was nothing elevating the young Robert over any of the others. If anything Jon Arryn would have made a better King and was de facto king while Robert *****d around.

Ultimately the Targ blood connection helped create a viable contender for the throne and put together a coalition that got Robert on the throne.

There is no particular legitimacy in Baratheon blood per se. The coalition that brought them to power has now dissolved. As such the new coalition propping up the Iron Throne is a much weaker one consisting of the Lannisters, Martells and the fatally weakened Storm Lords. Dorne is sulking, the North is fuming, the Vale has been indifferent.

So you are right in that the Targ bloodlines are somewhat irrelevant at this point. My point is that it was the Targ bloodlines that elevated the young Robert over everyone else. Once Robert's putative blood dies out there is nothing in terms of succession legitimacy that gives the heir to Storms End any special claim over the throne. What will be likely is a resumption of the Heptarchy, unless the new ruler can cobble together a coalition...which frankly is very unlikely. The Martell alliance dies with Tommen...so it is basically the Lannisters against everyone else. And Storms End is about to fall to the mummers dragon.

You meant Tyrell in those last 2 paragraphs, not Martell.

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Pages back we discussed who has the most legit claim to the Iron Throne if Tommen dies without a child?

Somebody did the research. Turns out it's Cersei. So, if she dies before Tommen, he's actually the rightful King, even with no relation to Robert Baratheon.

Who's up after Tommen?

---

There is a big problem with that theory. Robert had a claim to the throne as opposed to a Lannister, Martell or Stark when he revolted because his grandmother was a Targ. The Baratheons have not ruled long enough to have enough legitimacy to have some random Baratheon 6 generations up with no legit (qualifier included because the first baratheon was allegedly the ******* brother of the conqueror) Targ ancestry become King without the other lords wondering why it should not be then.

If the claim comes via legitimate Targ blood and the spawn of the mad king are excluded, it would then devolve to the Martells via Daenerys Targaryen sister of Daeron II.

Otherwise the death of Tommen without Dany showing up will lead to the Heptarchy.

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You try to base it on Targaryen bloodlines when they make no difference. Robert sat on the throne not because he had some Targaryen blood from a relative. Its because he gathered the banners, rebeled against the King and proceeded to whoop ass. He won the war and was the leader of the rebellion so he won the crown. Therefore, it no longer matters what Targaryen bloodlines are in play. The crown right now is Baratheon and therefore all Baratheon bloodlines are in viable for the crown if Tommen dies. Not Targaryen.

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Robert was not the first to rebel. The first was Jon Arryn when he refused to send Aerys Ned's and Robert's head. Heck if Aerys had not asked for Robert's head he may not even have been part of the rebellion.

Robert became the candidate for the throne because unlike Ned, Jon or Hoster Tully he could claim legit Targ blood and thus was a viable if weak contender to the Iron Throne over the other Lords Paramount of the former seven kingdoms. There was nothing elevating the young Robert over any of the others. If anything Jon Arryn would have made a better King and was de facto king while Robert *****d around.

Ultimately the Targ blood connection helped create a viable contender for the throne and put together a coalition that got Robert on the throne.

There is no particular legitimacy in Baratheon blood per se. The coalition that brought them to power has now dissolved. As such the new coalition propping up the Iron Throne is a much weaker one consisting of the Lannisters, Martells and the fatally weakened Storm Lords. Dorne is sulking, the North is fuming, the Vale has been indifferent.

So you are right in that the Targ bloodlines are somewhat irrelevant at this point. My point is that it was the Targ bloodlines that elevated the young Robert over everyone else. Once Robert's putative blood dies out there is nothing in terms of succession legitimacy that gives the heir to Storms End any special claim over the throne. What will be likely is a resumption of the Heptarchy, unless the new ruler can cobble together a coalition...which frankly is very unlikely. The Martell alliance dies with Tommen...so it is basically the Lannisters against everyone else. And Storms End is about to fall to the mummers dragon.

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A coalition of the willing if you will...Stankonia said they would send Bombs over Baghdad.

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You meant Tyrell in those last 2 paragraphs, not Martell.

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Yes

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I always took this comment to mean that Bran would be a dragon rider.

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Interesting. I never read it that way at all. I read the statement as being metaphorical, in reference to his ability to go anywhere and do anything via has visions.

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I took it as not the literal flying of dragons....but warging into a dragon (or dragons) on behalf of Jon most likely.

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I'm starting a re-read (first) in prep for WoW. I just read Bran's POV from right before he woke up from his coma. It is all about flying with the three eyed Raven and seeing all of the known world.

If the expectation is that Bran has to fight in some way whatever scares the piss out of him in the far north (right before he wakes up) and that he's expected to "know everything" I believe he will gain some degree of omnipotence. Or at least an ability to see everything (ultimate spy) even if he can't control anything.

That he sees his family (in real time) during that vision all over Westeros, but can also see to Essos and beyond the wall, is like flying but with like 200:1 vision.

What?

It isn't Ned's sole decision to make.

Recall varys' conversation with littlefinger in s1, the iron throne only has 500 swords, it's belief in the stories we tell each other that are the root of political authority.

Ned could never sit on the throne while peasants and nobles alike expect some semblance of targaryen succession. As long as kings landing is the capital and there are 7 kingdoms-in-one, westeros' sole monarch will be someone in the succession of aegon the conqueror.

Unless you split the kingdom apart, or conquer the other 6, people (big&small) will not accept a non targ.

If Ned had been more ambitious, he might have taken the throne, and Robert and Jon Arryn would have backed him. Would the rest of the kingdoms, though? Ned might not have been so ready to pardon the Targaryen supporters like Robert did.

Relevant enough to sway some houses who may have been sitting on the fence about the Baratheons. Nothing more.

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I know you read this thread GRRM, help me out here.

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Sorry, bub, you're on your own. I'm too busy trying to figure out how to get Dany out of Meereen. Again.

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have her flash whoever is holding her full frontal...and walk out naked while they are distracted......please!!!!!

Roberts entire claim is built on the culling of the Mad King's line. If targaryen meant nothing, he wouldn't have worried about Dany + khal drogo.

Everyone in the seven kingdoms knew the mad king was a POS. And half the continent rose up and placed a 2nd/3rd cousin with targaryen blood on the throne instead.

So please, continue with your weird wish fulfillment of Ned Stark or whoever having actual claim to rule the 7 kingdom patched together.

How was Ned considering a dead baby? Are you saying he was in on the plot to save him?

ready for another episode....tired of the coulda/woulda/shoulda argument.

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ready for another episode....tired of the coulda/woulda/shoulda argument.

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Agreed. And show writers may have every plot line moving at a snail's pace, but save for Dorne, I'm excited to see what happens next.