Thanks

quote:

---

quote:

---

I"m not sure when or how, but I will enjoy Ramsey's death. Although there is something to be said about a character you love to hate.

I hope it's Sansa, Jon or Theon that kills him.

---

2:1 odds that Ghost eats him.

---

That seems like a good bet, Ghost is going to eat at least one guy this season

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Other thoughts: Ned doesn't seem like the type to put such a bad beat down on someone to the point of loss of speech.

---

No, he's not the type. At least Adult Ned isn't. Could this be a life-altering formative event for Ned? Maybe it's a tragic accident. Maybe Benjen does it. Somebody is going to ring his bell hard and that will result in his condition.

---

My guess is if we see it in the book it will be Robert. Who knows about the show, but that seems like something Robert would do.

It is also possible Hodor gets hurt in some sort of accident. Maybe he is in the wrong place when the sister runs off or something with the tower of joy.

---

If he is a stable-boy, it's very likely that a horse simply kicked him in the head or something. It could kill someone smaller, but for him it just scrambled his mind.

---

I can vouch for this. A full-grown stallion could take your head off. I grew up raising horses and had a yearling knock a bunch of my back molars out when I was in high school.

So, is it possible that Jon is brought back to life the by "The Old Gods" maybe...or that maybe this is the start of people realizing The Old Gods and The New Gods(the 7) and The Lord of Light and all that...its all the same in this world.

I dunno, I think Jon will be the same for the most part, just maybe not as strict to rules as Ned/Robb/He was before death. Enough to leave the wall and take back the North in the name of the Starks...hand it over to Sansa, and meet up with Danaerys...so many ways they can go.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Other thoughts: Ned doesn't seem like the type to put such a bad beat down on someone to the point of loss of speech.

---

No, he's not the type. At least Adult Ned isn't. Could this be a life-altering formative event for Ned? Maybe it's a tragic accident. Maybe Benjen does it. Somebody is going to ring his bell hard and that will result in his condition.

---

My guess is if we see it in the book it will be Robert. Who knows about the show, but that seems like something Robert would do.

It is also possible Hodor gets hurt in some sort of accident. Maybe he is in the wrong place when the sister runs off or something with the tower of joy.

---

If he is a stable-boy, it's very likely that a horse simply kicked him in the head or something. It could kill someone smaller, but for him it just scrambled his mind.

---

I can vouch for this. A full-grown stallion could take your head off. I grew up raising horses and had a yearling knock a bunch of my back molars out when I was in high school.

---

In the books there are second hand reports that Wylis (Hodor) goes down into the crypts beneath Winterfell and loses the ability to say anything but Hodor afterwards. Lots of speculation on what he saw down there that could have had that effect on him.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Other thoughts: Ned doesn't seem like the type to put such a bad beat down on someone to the point of loss of speech.

---

No, he's not the type. At least Adult Ned isn't. Could this be a life-altering formative event for Ned? Maybe it's a tragic accident. Maybe Benjen does it. Somebody is going to ring his bell hard and that will result in his condition.

---

My guess is if we see it in the book it will be Robert. Who knows about the show, but that seems like something Robert would do.

It is also possible Hodor gets hurt in some sort of accident. Maybe he is in the wrong place when the sister runs off or something with the tower of joy.

---

If he is a stable-boy, it's very likely that a horse simply kicked him in the head or something. It could kill someone smaller, but for him it just scrambled his mind.

---

I can vouch for this. A full-grown stallion could take your head off. I grew up raising horses and had a yearling knock a bunch of my back molars out when I was in high school.

---

In the books there are second hand reports that Wylis (Hodor) goes down into the crypts beneath Winterfell and loses the ability to say anything but Hodor afterwards. Lots of speculation on what he saw down there that could have had that effect on him.

---

*Cough Ice Dragon*

I think the focus on her hands showed her hands aging.

I also think I saw his scars narrow then open again, but I was watching in barely HD with poor lighting.

I actually thought I saw one of the wounds near his waist close a bit, but I think it was my imagination.

As to bring being different, it's all but guaranteed he'll change somehow. Martin has basically said this in an interview he talked about Cat and Beric. The question is, how will Jon be different?

gift of Frey Pie from the Umbers maybe?

The other thing I think might happen, is they find the red witch dead, as a final act of failure on her part.

But that act brought Jon back.

Do we have any evidence that she is alive after this episode?

Great episode. Lots of things setting up nicely.

I would bet that this is the beginning of the end for Ramsey. I wouldn't even be surprised if the Karstarcks are now backing him publicly while starting to look for other options. The "gift' could well be a setup. I think Roose's "mad dog" comment was foreshadowing. There's no way what happened to Walda will stay a secret and that could effect Frey loyalty too. And the previously mention that "the North has long memories" illustrates why the Karstarks hate the Starks, but also serves to remind the viewer that the Boltons have betrayed the North overall far worse.

Hodor - that really seemed like foreshadowing that Hodor's mental demise has something to do with the Starks - yes, obviously a horse could kick him, or he could fall down the stairs, but that whole scene and afterward with Bran and Hodor's "conversation" really made me think he would be hurt - either by or in the service of the Starks. My own WAG is that it's somehow related to Lyanna's running off with Rhaegor, maybe Hodor tries to stop her or help her and gets hurt.

Jon coming back - yes! And also boo, since he probably won't be Jon anymore but some type of UnJon. Very curious to see if he tries to wreck shop on his betrayers or focus on the Walkers.

Who makes up that? Jon, Ramsay, and Little Finger?

quote:

---

The other thing I think might happen, is they find the red witch dead, as a final act of failure on her part.

But that act brought Jon back.

Do we have any evidence that she is alive after this episode?

---

Do you have any evidence that she isn't?

quote:

---

Who makes up that? Jon, Ramsay, and Little Finger?

---

Littlefinger isn't a *******, at least not by birth

quote:

---

quote:

---

Who makes up that? Jon, Ramsay, and Little Finger?

---

Dude

---

I want to see it WWE style. Ramsay and Jon going at it in the ring, then someone plays Gendry's music and he comes running in while Jim Ross yell BAH GAWD!

quote:

---

quote:

---

Who makes up that? Jon, Ramsay, and Little Finger?

---

Dude

---

Does Arya end up with this guy again? What's his name again? I can't figure out what Arya's future role could be at this point unless it's to be a badass killer of white walkers or maybe she finishes killing everyone who wronged her but that doesn't fit with the girl with no name stuff....but I'm not a book reader so....

We're all kind of in the same boat with Arya. My personal opinion is that she eventually gets back to Westeros and becomes a Stark again, or maybe that is my hope. If she fully gives up her past life to be a faceless assassin, then what will have been the point?

Does Davos know that Melisandre ordered Shireen burned at the stake? Does it matter either way - has he moved on from Stannis to his next chosen leader? Will he become a true believer in the Lord of Light? The Apostle Davos?

quote:

---

re: changes in Jon...i think one thing that seemed to change with Beric (from what I recall of those scenes) is every time he was brought back, his general motivations were more and more singular and purpose-driven (kill Gregor and his goons).

jon may finally quit ****ing around in his second life

---

And hopefully have more sex.

quote:

---

We're all kind of in the same boat with Arya. My personal opinion is that she eventually gets back to Westeros and becomes a Stark again, or maybe that is my hope. If she fully gives up her past life to be a faceless assassin, then what will have been the point?

---

I'm bored with the whole Arya story. Give the girl her damn eyes back and be on her way. She hasn't seen one of her family members all this time.

Also, I'm not convinced the hound is dead. Remember he said unless someone comes along I'm dead? I have a feeling someone came along. But will see.

Manderly saying Rickon was on Skagos seemed important to me after reading A World of Ice and Firse. It mentions the Skagosi use obsidian weapons. Seemed like they might show up and help in a big way late in the books. I don't think the show will go that direction

I hope Arya bumps into Gendry somehow, and that's what eventually takes her back to being Arya Stark

quote:

---

Also, I'm not convinced the hound is dead. Remember he said unless someone comes along I'm dead? I have a feeling someone came along. But will see.

---

The prevailing theory here is that he's the gravedigger at the Quiet Isles when Brienne and Pod happen upon it in the book, and that at some point he'll be the one who takes out FrankenGregor

I think I saw an article that the Septon from that sequence (Meribald, I think?) was cast, so we may see him again this season

A certain new actor gave out a major spoiler about that theory in an interview. When the fan base got mad, he said, "What's the big deal? "It's just t!ts and dragons."