Am I being overly optimistic, or is there room to reboot the continuity while salvaging the current Wonder Woman and Aquaman movies?
*** DC Extended Universe ***
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Last: 9 mo ago by TCTTS
No. More. Shared. Universe.
Please.
Just let Wonder Woman and the current slate (Aquaman, Shazam!, Birds of Prey, Flash, etc.) run their course as individual movies that kind of wink at each other every so often. Then, by 2021 or so the "DCEU" will finally die off and this failed experiment can go away forever.
Batman and Superman, however, each desperately need to be their own "thing" in their own, separate universes. Batman as part of a team just doesn't feel right, and Superman is too powerful compared to all the other heroes to the point that it basically renders the rest of the team somewhat pointless.
If I were in charge, I'd...
1) Let Matt Reeves do his thing with Batman for a couple movies, if not more. Then follow that iteration up with some kind of Batman Beyond take for two or three movies, and we're covered for the next decade or more, easily.
2) Figure out a way to reimagine Superman and relaunch that franchise in 2022 or 2023 or so. I'm talking keeping the character's basic essence/story, but really reimagining him for modern times. Maybe he's not quite as powerful? Lose/rethink the Clark disguise? Rethink the purpose of The Daily Planet as it relates to why Clark works there? Does he even need to work there anymore? Embrace the Krypton angle/lore ala J.J. Abrams' take from way back when? Another thing the movies have never done is explore the fact that he is essentially going to live forever/doesn't age. What if we kick off the franchise in the '50s and every new movie is a new era? Kind of like what Wonder Woman is doing? I'm in complete agreement that the character as-is is pretty dull. But there are SO MANY ways to tweak his character/story that could absolutely make him feel fresh and exciting again.
Please.
Just let Wonder Woman and the current slate (Aquaman, Shazam!, Birds of Prey, Flash, etc.) run their course as individual movies that kind of wink at each other every so often. Then, by 2021 or so the "DCEU" will finally die off and this failed experiment can go away forever.
Batman and Superman, however, each desperately need to be their own "thing" in their own, separate universes. Batman as part of a team just doesn't feel right, and Superman is too powerful compared to all the other heroes to the point that it basically renders the rest of the team somewhat pointless.
If I were in charge, I'd...
1) Let Matt Reeves do his thing with Batman for a couple movies, if not more. Then follow that iteration up with some kind of Batman Beyond take for two or three movies, and we're covered for the next decade or more, easily.
2) Figure out a way to reimagine Superman and relaunch that franchise in 2022 or 2023 or so. I'm talking keeping the character's basic essence/story, but really reimagining him for modern times. Maybe he's not quite as powerful? Lose/rethink the Clark disguise? Rethink the purpose of The Daily Planet as it relates to why Clark works there? Does he even need to work there anymore? Embrace the Krypton angle/lore ala J.J. Abrams' take from way back when? Another thing the movies have never done is explore the fact that he is essentially going to live forever/doesn't age. What if we kick off the franchise in the '50s and every new movie is a new era? Kind of like what Wonder Woman is doing? I'm in complete agreement that the character as-is is pretty dull. But there are SO MANY ways to tweak his character/story that could absolutely make him feel fresh and exciting again.
The most intriguing elements of Superman is during his adolescence. The times he's learning or struggling to discover his abilities. Hate to bring up Smallville, but I thought they did some good things in terms of showcasing WHY Clark felt himself an outsider (other than the obvious alien aspect):
- He couldn't play sports for risk of showing his abilities or hurting others
- As a baby, the Kents had to keep him away from other children because he couldn't control his tantrums
- His heat vision was discovered....during an 'intimate' moment of passion (thus adding to his reluctance to date) and feeling isolated from the opposite sex
But even those are just showcasing some of the downsides of his abilities. Filmmakers could have had some real fun with him discovering super speed or flight. (Hell, imagine the fun x-ray vision coulda been?)
Basically, the fully formed Superman we've seen over and over is a generic, trope-y hero...but that doesn't mean his journey to become Superman has to be.
- He couldn't play sports for risk of showing his abilities or hurting others
- As a baby, the Kents had to keep him away from other children because he couldn't control his tantrums
- His heat vision was discovered....during an 'intimate' moment of passion (thus adding to his reluctance to date) and feeling isolated from the opposite sex
But even those are just showcasing some of the downsides of his abilities. Filmmakers could have had some real fun with him discovering super speed or flight. (Hell, imagine the fun x-ray vision coulda been?)
Basically, the fully formed Superman we've seen over and over is a generic, trope-y hero...but that doesn't mean his journey to become Superman has to be.
The best Superman stories are introspective, which don't always make awesome movies. But dealing with questions like what Superman does about a cult that grows around him, or what does he do when an evil man like Luthor becomes president are always interesting.
What is his goal? To elevate mankind or let it grow on its own? He's a man who can do anything... would he cure cancer if he could? Use his technology to revive the dead, or feed whole continents of people?
But a Superman like this needs to be curated and grown with care. He needs to start out snagging bank robbers and plucking cats from trees and develop into the big questions.
So basically, that will never happen.
What is his goal? To elevate mankind or let it grow on its own? He's a man who can do anything... would he cure cancer if he could? Use his technology to revive the dead, or feed whole continents of people?
But a Superman like this needs to be curated and grown with care. He needs to start out snagging bank robbers and plucking cats from trees and develop into the big questions.
So basically, that will never happen.
lol i think there's a pretty funny comic about precisely this. The basic gist is that if Superman was really as altruistic as he made it seem, he has the capacity to create an infinitite supply of renewable energy. All we have to do is harness him into a generator and let him fly around in circles. He doesn't need food or water, never gets tired, and can live forever. All he has to do is essentially sacrifice his own life and he'll save billions.Quote:
What is his goal? To elevate mankind or let it grow on its own? He's a man who can do anything... would he cure cancer if he could? Use his technology to revive the dead, or feed whole continents of people?
This goes back to the idea I've always had to make Superman modern day: set him in a vague 50/60s time period, play up Metropolis as a super art deco "modern" city with some cool bits of anachronistic tech, and let him be who he is.TCTTS said:
2) Figure out a way to reimagine Superman and relaunch that franchise in 2022 or 2023 or so. I'm talking keeping the character's basic essence/story, but really reimagining him for modern times. Maybe he's not quite as powerful? Lose/rethink the Clark disguise? Rethink the purpose of The Daily Planet as it relates to why Clark works there? Does he even need to work there anymore? Embrace the Krypton angle/lore ala J.J. Abrams' take from way back when? Another thing the movies have never done is explore the fact that he is essentially going to live forever/doesn't age. What if we kick off the franchise in the '50s and every new movie is a new era? Kind of like what Wonder Woman is doing? I'm in complete agreement that the character as-is is pretty dull. But there are SO MANY ways to tweak his character/story that could absolutely make him feel fresh and exciting again.
I've always thought this short did a great job capturing that sort of feel:
The age thing is interesting. Have the comics ever done anything with Lois aging/dying while Supes has to live on, kinda like Cap and Peggy?
I just did a rewatch of Mad Men and had this exact thought. Jon Hamm as Batman makes way too much sense.
What was even crazier was seeing Don Draper at his most vulnerable and thinking about The Martha scene. I don't have so much a problem with the connection between mothers as much as the execution of the scene. I think Hamm could have made it less ridiculous. Jon Hamm played a broken man so damn well in Mad Men that he could have helped that scene.
What was even crazier was seeing Don Draper at his most vulnerable and thinking about The Martha scene. I don't have so much a problem with the connection between mothers as much as the execution of the scene. I think Hamm could have made it less ridiculous. Jon Hamm played a broken man so damn well in Mad Men that he could have helped that scene.
Man, how epic would it be if DC did an injustice story over the course of 6-10 movies.
M.C. Swag said:lol i think there's a pretty funny comic about precisely this. The basic gist is that if Superman was really as altruistic as he made it seem, he has the capacity to create an infinitite supply of renewable energy. All we have to do is harness him into a generator and let him fly around in circles. He doesn't need food or water, never gets tired, and can live forever. All he has to do is essentially sacrifice his own life and he'll save billions.Quote:
What is his goal? To elevate mankind or let it grow on its own? He's a man who can do anything... would he cure cancer if he could? Use his technology to revive the dead, or feed whole continents of people?
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-07-13
I just don't see Jon Hamm as Batman at all. I get that Don Draper had a very Bruce Wayne vibe... but it just doesn't make sense to me personally. And I love Jon Hamm.
Sex Panther said:
I just don't see Jon Hamm as Batman at all. I get that Don Draper had a very Bruce Wayne vibe... but it just doesn't make sense to me personally. And I love Jon Hamm.
Completely agree. When I think Jon Hamm I don't think "action movie star" in the sense of fight scenes and using a bat-a-whatever to repel to the top of buildings.
Didn't we think the same thing about Michael Keaton?FL_Ag1998 said:Sex Panther said:
I just don't see Jon Hamm as Batman at all. I get that Don Draper had a very Bruce Wayne vibe... but it just doesn't make sense to me personally. And I love Jon Hamm.
Completely agree. When I think Jon Hamm I don't think "action movie star" in the sense of fight scenes and using a bat-a-whatever to repel to the top of buildings.
You guys are pretty much describing Superman Returns. It has that vague 60s feeling and art style. Of course it also had Superman being a deadbeat dad and fighting a mountain.
DP
I think Superman is fine. Some of y'all's ideas sound like Amazing Spider-Man - if DC tried it and it failed, everyone would be saying "you strayed from the comics! What were you thinking!"
I think this version of Supes was a bust for a few basic reasons. 1) Wooden acting. 2) Zero chemistry with Lois. 3) Bad Lex Luthor. 4) Three big grey humanoid villains in a row that he can just trade punches with.
Consider that he had less lines in BvS than Spider-Man had in Civil War. No wonder nobody connected to this version. Add to that the head-scratching decisions, like having him just stand there on fire, moping, in that courtroom scene. And then instead of explaining himself to people he just flies off. What a jackass.
I don't know much about his rogue's gallery, but surely there's someone in there that could make an interesting foil. A cosmic threat, or maybe an intellectual threat that you can't just punch away. Zod was good except that it was Kryptonians vs Kryptonians - that whole origin clone villain problem.
Somehow, after all these Superman films, we've basically just seen Luthor, Zod, and two big grey CGI punchy men (Doomsday and Steppenwolf). Give us something fresh.
I think a good comparison is Captain America. Without removing his powers, origins, setting or iconic look, they've managed to put him in situations where he was a perfect fit. Good performances, unique action, good chemistry with costars, and a decent variety of opponents. But he still keeps that moral compass.
A more likeable actor, in situations that challenge him (without breaking what we love about the character), and better / more unique opposition, and I think he's good to go. Maybe a cosmic threat, or someone who is striking multiple places at once and attacking civilians, or something that stretches the character besides one-trick Lex and punchy CGI villain.
I think this version of Supes was a bust for a few basic reasons. 1) Wooden acting. 2) Zero chemistry with Lois. 3) Bad Lex Luthor. 4) Three big grey humanoid villains in a row that he can just trade punches with.
Consider that he had less lines in BvS than Spider-Man had in Civil War. No wonder nobody connected to this version. Add to that the head-scratching decisions, like having him just stand there on fire, moping, in that courtroom scene. And then instead of explaining himself to people he just flies off. What a jackass.
I don't know much about his rogue's gallery, but surely there's someone in there that could make an interesting foil. A cosmic threat, or maybe an intellectual threat that you can't just punch away. Zod was good except that it was Kryptonians vs Kryptonians - that whole origin clone villain problem.
Somehow, after all these Superman films, we've basically just seen Luthor, Zod, and two big grey CGI punchy men (Doomsday and Steppenwolf). Give us something fresh.
I think a good comparison is Captain America. Without removing his powers, origins, setting or iconic look, they've managed to put him in situations where he was a perfect fit. Good performances, unique action, good chemistry with costars, and a decent variety of opponents. But he still keeps that moral compass.
A more likeable actor, in situations that challenge him (without breaking what we love about the character), and better / more unique opposition, and I think he's good to go. Maybe a cosmic threat, or someone who is striking multiple places at once and attacking civilians, or something that stretches the character besides one-trick Lex and punchy CGI villain.
DC is screwed. They are never going to catch Marvel now. What a bunch of idiots.
i love jon hamm too and a couple of weeks ago, i'd have agreed with you. but i recently watched baby driver (finally) and that was a role i wouldn't have pegged him for either and i thought he was great.Sex Panther said:
I just don't see Jon Hamm as Batman at all. I get that Don Draper had a very Bruce Wayne vibe... but it just doesn't make sense to me personally. And I love Jon Hamm.
The 90s tv show with Dean Cain did an episode on this. Superman discovered he wasn't aging and he had the discussion with Lois about it and everything was really sad. But then of course, the random bad guy of the week devised some machine that somehow 'sapped' superman of his immortality(?) and basically made him a normal human (from an aging perspective). The end was really silly but the lead up to realization of 'oh my god, i'm going to outlive everyone i know' was truly fascinating.MooreTrucker said:
The age thing is interesting. Have the comics ever done anything with Lois aging/dying while Supes has to live on, kinda like Cap and Peggy?
Ah, Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman
Two words: Teri Hatcher.
Two words: Teri Hatcher.
they were never going to catch Marvel.Hulla Baller said:
DC is screwed. They are never going to catch Marvel now. What a bunch of idiots.
MooreTrucker said:
MooreTrucker said:Didn't we think the same thing about Michael Keaton?FL_Ag1998 said:Sex Panther said:
I just don't see Jon Hamm as Batman at all. I get that Don Draper had a very Bruce Wayne vibe... but it just doesn't make sense to me personally. And I love Jon Hamm.
Completely agree. When I think Jon Hamm I don't think "action movie star" in the sense of fight scenes and using a bat-a-whatever to repel to the top of buildings.
I still do. Never liked him as Batman.
I think Cavill is good...
Keaton is the best live action Batman.
Bruce Almighty said:
Keaton is the best live action Batman.
He made a great Bruce Wayne as well.
https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/joaquin-phoenix-joker-photo-724860/
Video of the above picture within the Rolling Stone article.
Video of the above picture within the Rolling Stone article.
who?
Not seeing anything. What was it?
He's actually in The Dark Knight Rises. He's the congressman toward the beginning, at Wayne Manor, who hits on Anne Hathaway. She then leaves with him and kidnaps him.
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