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http://screencrush.com/suicide-squad-reshoots-fun/

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Eventually, after soaking up the sun's radiation for a few more decades, he'll be the living god we see now, but the stories are all about him growing into that.

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this late in the game major reshoots is not a good sign. i was hoping this movie was already fun enough.


ugh

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this late in the game major reshoots is not a good sign. i was hoping this movie was already fun enough.


ugh

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Well after BvS I can't say I blame them for being a little more fearful and critical, but I just don't trust them enough not to completely **** it up.

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Either way, I'm afraid no one's going to want to see Superman again for a long while. So maybe wait and reboot him again in 2025 or something. I don't know.

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I've actually been thinking about this lately and Superman needs a massive conceptual reboot anyway. The whole Clark Kent glasses disguise / working-at-newspaper thing is just beyond dated at this point, and from what I've read, BvS only helps support my point. I don't know what the answer is, but the only way audiences come back for a solo Superman outing or franchise again in the next decade or so is if it's something really new and fresh. I'm not saying reinvent that character by any means, but I feel like there's definitely an opportunity to play with the basic Clark Kent / Superman dynamic, while also potentially keeping Krypton around, tweaking the Ma & Pa Kent thing a bit, etc., updating the story more for modern times, etc.

Then again, I also have a feeling that a decade from now Hollywood is going to be mostly done with superhero movies altogether...

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I've long been a proponent of just changing Superman for the big screen. Powers dialed waaaaaaay back. Definitely no super breath or whatever that is, no mind erasing kisses, no total invulnerability, and I think you could even lose x-ray and heat vision. Seriously, how dated is x-ray vision as a superpower?

You make him succeed by putting him in a continuum. You say his powers manifest at puberty and start telling his story when his powers are pretty basic. He's really strong and fast. Maybe he can fly. He's tough, but can still be hurt. Eventually, after soaking up the sun's radiation for a few more decades, he'll be the living god we see now, but the stories are all about him growing into that.

A Superman who starts as sort of a Captain America level hero, trying to do the right thing with his "gifts" and has to rely on his wits as much as his strength is compelling. He can be outclassed physically. He can be marginalized. He can lose even if the threat isn't something like Darkseid.

And, that sort of Superman might even need the help of a Justice League.

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We can agree to disagree, but I'm pretty sure the massive majority feels the same as I do. Superman's power is a detriment to his character and the stories that can be told. That's true in the comics, but especially other media. Superman is constantly being nerfed so other characters can shine or so villains can be a threat. That's the whole reason Kryptonite even exists.

There are certainly threats out there that can take down Superman, and require the help of other supers. But, those sorts of cosmic level stories are not very accessible, especially when you're talking about a 2 hour movie. A story about a fight between Superman and the Anti-Monitor lacks elements that allow people to connect with the story. A conflict between two godlike beings is boring.

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Although luckily they did a bad enough job explaining wtf actually happened in that flash scene that maybe they can walk that back still.

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Although luckily they did a bad enough job explaining wtf actually happened in that flash scene that maybe they can walk that back still.

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I think part of the complaint of Superman's power level (and potentially that of other DC heroes) is that it isn't relatable to the rest of us. That's why Batman and IronMan are so popular - they're regular guys who are really smart / really well trained, but they bleed and hurt like the rest of us. DC heroes can only seemingly be killed by other DC heroes or DC super villains. Marvel has kept the power level of many of its heroes vague so they seem more relatable. Captain America gets put in the hospital, Iron Man suffers from PTSD, Quicksilver basically gets offed by a henchman, Hulk is a loose cannon who can't control his rage, Falcon is just a regular soldier with a jet pack, and so on. We can almost picture ourselves being useful if caught in a scrap with the Marvel heroes. If the DC heroes get in a fight around us, we're utterly useless (and superman won't hesitate to punch someone through our building).

Another interesting difference between DC movie heroes and Marvel movie heroes is the DC heroes still appear to be maintaining alter egos and secret identities. Ant Man is probably the only current marvel hero with a secret identity (though I imagine that will change with Spider-Man entering the picture)

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Although luckily they did a bad enough job explaining wtf actually happened in that flash scene that maybe they can walk that back still.

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I showed my wife the article TCTTS posted on the other thread, and she had absolutely no idea that was Flash when he showed up in the film.

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Although luckily they did a bad enough job explaining wtf actually happened in that flash scene that maybe they can walk that back still.

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I showed my wife the article TCTTS posted on the other thread, and she had absolutely no idea that was Flash when he showed up in the film.

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That's why Batman and IronMan are so popular - they're regular guys who are really smart / really well trained, but they bleed and hurt like the rest of us.

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And yet Batman and Iron Man are just as fantastical as Superman. Batman is an expert in all forms of combat including hand-to-hand, firearms, vehicular, airplane, etc. He's the best detective in the world, is a guy who invents Tech on the fly that has never been seen before and also violates physics, is an expert at virtually all sciences, is an Olympian level athlete, etc, in addition to being a billionaire and owner of a multi-national corporation. And you call this relatable? He's just as ridiculously exaggerated as Superman. Same thing with Tony Stark. To be just one of the things Batman is would require a lifetime of dedication and even then it would only be a maybe, yet he is all of it and more.

I'm not saying Batman is a bad character because I like Batman, I just think calling him relatable and Superman not is insane.

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Although luckily they did a bad enough job explaining wtf actually happened in that flash scene that maybe they can walk that back still.

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I showed my wife the article TCTTS posted on the other thread, and she had absolutely no idea that was Flash when he showed up in the film.

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It was a Flashpoint reference. The WB essentially made a movie for DC Comics fans who knew a lot about the comics. Hopefully the extended version explains these scenes a lot better.

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I think part of the complaint of Superman's power level (and potentially that of other DC heroes) is that it isn't relatable to the rest of us. That's why Batman and IronMan are so popular - they're regular guys who are really smart / really well trained, but they bleed and hurt like the rest of us. DC heroes can only seemingly be killed by other DC heroes or DC super villains. Marvel has kept the power level of many of its heroes vague so they seem more relatable. Captain America gets put in the hospital, Iron Man suffers from PTSD, Quicksilver basically gets offed by a henchman, Hulk is a loose cannon who can't control his rage, Falcon is just a regular soldier with a jet pack, and so on. We can almost picture ourselves being useful if caught in a scrap with the Marvel heroes. If the DC heroes get in a fight around us, we're utterly useless (and superman won't hesitate to punch someone through our building).

Another interesting difference between DC movie heroes and Marvel movie heroes is the DC heroes still appear to be maintaining alter egos and secret identities. Ant Man is probably the only current marvel hero with a secret identity (though I imagine that will change with Spider-Man entering the picture)

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And yet Batman and Iron Man are just as fantastical as Superman. Batman is an expert in all forms of combat including hand-to-hand, firearms, vehicular, airplane, etc. He's the best detective in the world, is a guy who invents Tech on the fly that has never been seen before and also violates physics, is an expert at virtually all sciences, is an Olympian level athlete, etc, in addition to being a billionaire and owner of a multi-national corporation. And you call this relatable? He's just as ridiculously exaggerated as Superman. Same thing with Tony Stark. To be just one of the things Batman is would require a lifetime of dedication and even then it would only be a maybe, yet he is all of it and more.

I'm not saying Batman is a bad character because I like Batman, I just think calling him relatable and Superman not is insane.

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And yet, while Batman is all those things in the comics, for the best film depictions, weren't many of those extraordinary traits dialed way back? And a better fit for the big screen for it? That's what we're talking about here.

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Dude, at some point you just have to admit they didn't make a good movie.

There's nothing wrong with liking it, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But this film is riddled with plot holes, inconsistencies, and badly motivated characters

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God it irks me we still haven't seen Batman in movies as a Sherlock rivaling detective much less the galactic level intellect he's supposed to be. One of the main reasons that I love Nolans batfilms but have major issues with his bat.

I get what Vander is saying though. Depowering would work but man there's gotta be a way to not settle for that with competent writing. If they can make a talking racoon beloved they can make an invulnerable God likable and enthralling.

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Dude, at some point you just have to admit they didn't make a good movie.

There's nothing wrong with liking it, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But this film is riddled with plot holes, inconsistencies, and badly motivated characters

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I wasn't talking about the movie and have said nothing about the movie at all in this conversation. I gave the movie a B- on the review thread. It was good, but had some significant issues as you said. All I was talking about here was just that Batman as a character is as insanely overexaggerated and unrealistic as Superman.

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They don't show all of those things because they literally can't, not because they don't want to. It would be a 5 hour long movie in order to properly display everything that Batman is an expert at. Same thing with Superman's powers, which is why we didn't see him use his x-ray vision, cold breath, telescopic vision, etc. These guys can do way too much for any movie or series of movies to show.

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