I almost feel like Jesse has the "purest" heart

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People dislike Hank?

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Try to forget what you know about the characters now, and remember back to the very first 3 or 4 episodes. Hank was the obnoxious, overbearing brother-in-law. Also, he was quick with a racial joke/slur. I'm surprised he didn't give Walt a noogie.

He started out the show as a version of the loudmouth drunk at the party that loves the sound of his own voice and makes you want to leave at the first opportunity.

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I almost feel like Jesse has the "purest" heart

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I think this is very deliberate. In the pilot, Walter was seemingly good and Jesse was the drug dealing junkie with no conscience.

Flash forward a year and 3 months, and they've completely flipped. Jesse seems to be the moral center of the show, or at least the moral center of Walt's crew. Walt has gone completely off the rails.

http://www.amctv.com/breaking-bad/videos/on-the-set-of-the-final-8-episodes-breaking-bad

First video released that I've seen

Need help with link as I'm on mobile

Link is fine. Posted that on another thread a few days ago. Can't wait for the last 8 episodes; probably my most anticipated season of any show of all time. (And I was a huge Lostie. Ok, maybe it's tied with Lost Season 6.)

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walt's killed many people now, become a complete megalomaniac and put his family in immense danger, but somehow Skyler's the bad guy.

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She knew exactly what she was doing. His actions justified hers? No. She could have just taken those divorce papers and walked. But she fell into the same trap of "want" and she became no better. Moral ambiguity I know, but at least Walt had good intentions. And what danger were they in exactly? She was never really supportive of Walt.

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Prior to that, she was a good a wife as one could hope for.

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If you think a breakfast cook, selfish emotional weakling, and nagger make a good wife, then yes Id agree. She overstepped her boundaries and didnt respect Walt. Forcing him into making medical decisions he didnt want to make as well as going to Elliot and Gretchen without his consent. If that makes a good wife, then count me out. She continued to try and ramrod her way into things once she found out about the drugs, and she quickly became way in over her head. She was throwing around $3800 in deposits when Walt brings in another 275k. Same thing next week.

She is licking her chops at that drug money.

And Hank isnt good at his core either. Who self respecting defender of the law gets down and takes pics with a guy that has had his arm ripped off? Hes a poon and much bigger in his mind that what he really is. His moping around was proof that hes just as much an egomaniac and not as macho as he wants to think he is. When he beat Jesse after the call that Marie was in the hospital, he lost it. Put it in context. He did what everyone hates about peace officers...he hid behind his badge and abused its power. He shuold have been fired after beating Jesse. He let it get personal.

And yes, I hate Hank for how he treated Marie during recovery. The way Skyler treated Walt is nowhere the same as how Marie coddled Hank. If I were Marie I would have let him sit in his own sheyt for a few days to think about how he was treating me. The whole fritos and ch ch ch chitos thing really got under my skin.

I got the distinct impression that Skyler ALWAYS dominated Walt. She was the alpha dog, and Walt was just this sad, tired little school teacher that tucked his tail between his legs at every opportunity.

Through Walt's transformation into Heisenberg, he has had to make himself comfortable in becoming an Alpha personality. So much to the point that he is now THE alpha on the show. Look at the personalities of who he's eliminated...

The interesting thing is that Walt used to pretend to be Heisenberg when he was around the drug side of his life. Now he has to pretend to be Walt because his default personality is Heisenberg. And it seems to me that he started running in to problems with Skyler when she realized that she couldn't push him around anymore.

I think she may hate the idea of the drug game, but really what she hates is the fact that her husband has a backbone now.

^totally agree

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The way Skyler treated Walt is nowhere the same as how Marie coddled Hank.

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I think I also kind of hated Skyler for the way she treated Walt early. When she found out he had cancer, she got pissed at him. Then when he was being squirrely about treatments, she gives him the cold shoulder and silent treatment. Meanwhile, the guy --as far as she knows-- has received a death sentence and is processing it. So what does she do? She goes back to work and then bangs Ted Beneke.

I'm not sure what our timeline is for this entire show, but I think it's only like a year and a half for all the seasons combined. So within 12 months of her husband getting terminal cancer, she's jilted Walt and started sexing up her old boss?

Reminds me of Castaway. Hanks is on the island for 4 years, and he gets off to find that his then soon-to-be fiance has married and has a 2 year old kid or something? How long did you wait to start banging the dentist there, Helen?

You didnt pay much attention to Castaway, did you?

He was dead. For 7 years.

No survivors. And they werent even engaged.

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He was dead. For 7 years.

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(1)

1500 / 365 = 4.10 years, plus however long he floated on the ocean, which I doubt very much was another 3 years.

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No survivors. And they werent even engaged.

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(2) I specifically said "soon-to-be" fiance, as in Chuck had the ring in the glove box of the jeep and he mad her sit on it until he got back.

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I think I also kind of hated Skyler for the way she treated Walt early. When she found out he had cancer, she got pissed at him. Then when he was being squirrely about treatments, she gives him the cold shoulder and silent treatment. Meanwhile, the guy --as far as she knows-- has received a death sentence and is processing it. So what does she do? She goes back to work and then bangs Ted Beneke.

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I think you're messing up the timeline pretty well. She ****ed Ted after she found out about all of Walt's lies. she went back to work because she thought their finances were strained (hence walt jr's fundraising website) and meanwhile, he's constantly lying to her about what he's doing.

she was no doubt domineering and flawed, but I would bet you that if you asked the average viewer (at least on here), which character do you hate the most, Skyler would come out on top. That simply doesn't make sense to me, if we're judging this on any kind of moral grounds.

what I really think is happening is that the majority of the posters on here are men. many who are already predisposed to not like female characters (or those characters have a higher bar set to be "good" characters). take a look at many of the "great" shows of the past decade. most have female characters that are the most hated on the show, meanwhile, those shows are filled with contemptible characters, morally or otherwise. but somehow the female characters end up most hated. maybe it's bad writing (I definitely think that's part of it since most head writers are male and often times, women are placed as the antagonist to the main character) but I'd still argue there's a perception bias where female characters are already starting with a strike or two against them.

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She knew exactly what she was doing. His actions justified hers? No. She could have just taken those divorce papers and walked. But she fell into the same trap of "want" and she became no better. Moral ambiguity I know, but at least Walt had good intentions. And what danger were they in exactly? She was never really supportive of Walt.

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interesting that you neglect to mention that when skyler asked for a divorce, marie/hank as well as walt jr. treated her like **** because they thought she was the one who was the cause of it all, when in fact it was walt that had been lying to her and engaging in illegal activity that put their entire family at risk. so yeah, only after all that did she strike back at walt with ted and eventually determine she didn't have a way out so was going to at least take some control back. it was either that or tell her brother-in-law, the DEA agent, and her son that Walt was a meth distributor. What exactly would you have done?

LOL at you guys. You're playing "who's better, who's worse". Like real people, some days he's better, some days she is.

They're both worse people than anyone I'd like to have in my life, so what difference is it which one is MORE bad?

I feel like I need to address the situation wherein "Doug Christie" stands up in defense of the domineering, alpha female personality. That is too awesome to overlook.

Unless you actually are the real Doug Christie, in which case I should tell you that I hated you and the Sacramento Kings from about 2000 until 2005. Also, good luck with your foray into the world of pornography. (Link SFW)

touche

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what I really think is happening is that the majority of the posters on here are men. many who are already predisposed to not like female characters (or those characters have a higher bar set to be "good" characters). take a look at many of the "great" shows of the past decade. most have female characters that are the most hated on the show, meanwhile, those shows are filled with contemptible characters, morally or otherwise. but somehow the female characters end up most hated. maybe it's bad writing (I definitely think that's part of it since most head writers are male and often times, women are placed as the antagonist to the main character) but I'd still argue there's a perception bias where female characters are already starting with a strike or two against them.

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Ive introduced the show to at least 5 females and on their own they came back within 3 episodes and said they hated Skyler. I told them the first several episodes were slow because of character development, so they were focused on that. I cant wait til they get through all 4 seasons on netflix.

Again...so we are justifying her actions?

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interesting that you neglect to mention that when skyler asked for a divorce, marie/hank as well as walt jr. treated her like **** because they thought she was the one who was the cause of it all, when in fact it was walt that had been lying to her and engaging in illegal activity that put their entire family at risk. so yeah, only after all that did she strike back at walt with ted and eventually determine she didn't have a way out so was going to at least take some control back. it was either that or tell her brother-in-law, the DEA agent, and her son that Walt was a meth distributor. What exactly would you have done?

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Again, she could have taken the papers and walked. If she were all self righteous about it, why NOT turn Walt in if she really had a sense of moral center and was concerned about her safety and that of her children? Why would preserving an image of a dying man be all that important at that point? She didnt really want the divorce to begin with, it was just a threat. And she used the "family" front as leverage to take that dirty money and pay for Hanks therapy. So I guess when she faced the same option of having anything to do with that dirty money, she made the same decision Walt did. Hmmmm....

Rocky, Methinks you haven't read ASOIAF. Joffery is PLENTY evil all on his own.

IS IT JULY YET?! READY TO SEE HOW THIS ENDS!

And about that beech Skyler, why is she so accepting and willing to work with Ted Beneke who cooks his books and not Walt? She helps Beneke cook his books and indulges his law breaking, yet condemns Walt, her own husband, of his law breaking.

I've begun to wonder whether Walt actually cares for/loves his family. I've always gotten the impression that his care is genuine. However, when I consider the possibility that Walt's attitude is purely possessive and that his care for his family is only a result of a sense of ownership, I have a lot of difficulty finding evidence against this view. It seems like you could explain all of the actions that Walt takes on his family's behalf with this viewpoint, though this is not necessarily the viewpoint that I want to take. I'm wondering if any of you can build a case against it.

When the ******bags are making fun of Walt Jr in the pilot.

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I've begun to wonder whether Walt actually cares for/loves his family. I've always gotten the impression that his care is genuine. However, when I consider the possibility that Walt's attitude is purely possessive and that his care for his family is only a result of a sense of ownership, I have a lot of difficulty finding evidence against this view. It seems like you could explain all of the actions that Walt takes on his family's behalf with this viewpoint, though this is not necessarily the viewpoint that I want to take. I'm wondering if any of you can build a case against it.

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I think Skylar was his rebound girl from the woman he lost when he left Grey matter.

They got married, had a kid and next think he knows he is stuck in suberbia as a high school teacher with no life savings, no future, a kid with a debilitating disability and a wife that is only partly there. Add on the cancer and he is a defeated man.

Once he becomes a drug kingpin I think he regains the confidence he had in his heyday and he sees his family as a means to further his own ends. The reason he doesn't let Skylar leave is for his benefit, not hers. He lets Walt Jr. run his site, for his benefit even though he knows it will humiliate Walt Jr. when the truth comes out.

I think Walt believes he got stuck with his family because of the things that happened to him, not because that is what he wanted. He cares for his family so long as they benefit him.

I think he would sell anybody on that show out in a heartbeat, except for Jesse. i think he sees the "son he never had" in Jesse. A kid that cares about what Walt does, that needs Walt. Jesse is somebody that Walt isn't a burden on.

Walt burdens his family with his career, his life and (before) his disease. He probbaly feels like his family didn't appreciate him.

Anyways, that is my take on it.

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Ive introduced the show to at least 5 females and on their own they came back within 3 episodes and said they hated Skyler. I told them the first several episodes were slow because of character development, so they were focused on that.

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Ummm... no one hates women like women hate women.

But really, I hated Skylar from the beginning as well. However, I also hated Walt from being such a spineless guy. He never stood up for himself at the beginning and it was very annoying.

Lestat and others, I disagree that Walt doesn't care for his family except for his own ends. In the first few episodes, I think the sole reason for what he's doing was for his family and for his family alone.

Now, when he starts making good money and realizes he can make a lot more, that's when pride kicks in and he wants to keep going. But in the beginning, I think he was a good man, albeit a massive beta.

But y'all are being way too harsh on Walt, IMO. Is he a good person anymore? Not even close. Does he care about his family? (His children, really.) Absolutely, no question.

[This message has been edited by sharkenleo (edited 3/14/2013 11:35a).]

Shark,

You make valid points.

I look back to when Walts former partners offered him money to cover the cancer treatments and he choose not to accept it and instead pursued drug dealing.

I think part of the reason he decided to go the drug route is because he was massively unhappy with his life and he felt like he was under achieving in everything he did.

He went from working with a nobel winner to being spurned by the woman of his dreams to marrying a waitress and having a son with MS (nothing wrong in real life with either of those things).

I don't think Walt married for love (just based off of what I have seen) and while I think he cares about Walt Jr and possibly used to care for Skylar, I think he would sell them both out in a heart beat.

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When the ******bags are making fun of Walt Jr in the pilot.

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That was my first thought. I feel like that could still be explained as more of a possessive/territorial reaction though. The other would be his desperate video message to Walt Jr. and Skyler (also in the pilot). That emotion is probably genuine.

There's definitely a considerable level of ambiguity, though. Walt's pride/territorial nature is definitely a major factor in his relationships with Skyler and Jr. I think that this aspect is more apparent than genuine love, though I do think that there is that as well.

Skyler, yes. But why would he sell out his son? When Skyler is packing her bags and going to Maries, Walt starts holding Hollys hand. I think his love for his kids is real.

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Skyler, yes. But why would he sell out his son? When Skyler is packing her bags and going to Maries, Walt starts holding Hollys hand. I think his love for his kids is real.

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I completely forgot about his daughter.

No, i don't think he would sell her out. To a degree, i don't think he would sell out Walt Jr either. but,I do think he is more willing to use Walt Jr. as a pawn to manipulate Skylar (and likely Hank, when he realizes Hank has cuaght his scent).

Lestat, honest question, do you have kids?

I believe that the characters on this show are as "real" as it gets. And while you may grow to have a love/hate relationship with your spouse, you won't ever hate your kids (unless you are a complete psycho, which Walt is not).

Yes,I do have kids. It really isn't relevent to the conversation though.

Have you ever been a drug dealer?

I never said I think Walt hates his kids. I said he would "sell them out", which means use them to his advantage.

I think that if it came down to saving his skin or saving Walt Jr's skin, he would save his own hide.

I don't think he would do the same for his daughter and I am willing to bet that plays into the "innocence" theme in the show. He believes his daughter is still innocent. I don't think he feels the same way about Walt Jr.

Again, just my opinion about a fictionalized TV show.

I think it is absolutely relevant because of the "realness" of the characters. I think Walt would have a VERY hard time selling out Skylar, in spite of their rocky relationship, and would absolutely NOT sell out Walt Jr or the baby.

Now, an interesting situation will be if he has to choose between Jesse or Walt Jr...not sure if they'll go there or not.

Walt would NOT sellout his kids. To say so is completely ungrounded and a horrible argument, imo.

I think he loves his family in the normal range of how much most "normal" men love their families. (i.e. Some more, some less but most are somewhere between X and Y.)

I think he got into cooking meth out of an honest desire to leave them comfortable. But, once he figured out he was GREAT at it, not just adequate, he began to get attached to that and to self-identify himself as the amazing Heisenberg! Most of his choices after the first few have been to grow/glorify Heisenberg rather than to do anything in particular for his family. He (his ego) now aspires to personal greatness, which he can only achieve as Heisenberg.

He has now corrupted Skyler to his way of thinking (or at least to his course of action), so he's that much freer to pursue his dream.