Or they are financially secure and don't want to support deadbeats who failed to save and invest…

UTExan said:

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Or they are financially secure and don't want to support deadbeats who failed to save and invest…

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Pissing in the wind likely doesn't help their ROI.

Again, the economy is built around people spending money they don't have. Trying to fix that problem is a fool's errand.

Proposition Joe said:

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UTExan said:

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Or they are financially secure and don't want to support deadbeats who failed to save and invest…

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Pissing in the wind likely doesn't help their ROI.

Again, the economy is built around people spending money they don't have. Trying to fix that problem is a fool's errand.

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Yep, and I am almost at the point that employers force their workforce to save and invest as a condition of employment or the government does. I am not a fan of coercion but failure to save/invest because of poor lifestyle choices cannot be rewarded.
People with severe budgetary constraints due to health issues? Federal subsidies dumped into individual savings accounts either through tax breaks or direct payments into those accounts. I want people to have zero excuse to not save unless they are mentally incompetent or ill.

I'm sorry to be a Jones that yall feel obligated to keep up with

A surprising number of people would be in panic mode if they had to come up with $1,000 for an "emergency."

My CPA told me once that she dreaded working with clients from a fancy neighborhood near us (multi-million dollar homes back in 2000 or so) because in her experience, they spent every dime they made and she would have to chase them for months for her fee.

I agree with the earlier poster who said tough times will make you paranoid about spending money. I've been through three layoffs and a business bust-up in my career and while I was fortunate to come out okay, it definitely makes you wary about protecting your money. Those were nerve-wracking times.

I'm guessing your CPA friend isn't at the top of the CPA list then. Rich people are a CPAs cash cow. It's the middle class who couldn't even get the loan for a multimillion dollar house that want their tax returns done as cheaply as possible.

I'm convinced there are multitudes of people who don't know any better. They've had no examples ahead of them and have no concept of saving - it's just credit cards and loans to them. Their parents are still working at 70 and that's the way they think things are.

After expenses and investments in real estate and equities, I have no money left over. Would this be considered living paycheck to paycheck? It sure feels like it.

I don't feel like I live paycheck to paycheck at 40. I definitely have in the past.

Proposition Joe said:

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UTExan said:

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Or they are financially secure and don't want to support deadbeats who failed to save and invest…

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Pissing in the wind likely doesn't help their ROI.

Again, the economy is built around people spending money they don't have. Trying to fix that problem is a fool's errand.

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Right, but you win when you save but others spend. Best of both worlds.

UTExan said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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UTExan said:

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Or they are financially secure and don't want to support deadbeats who failed to save and invest…

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Pissing in the wind likely doesn't help their ROI.

Again, the economy is built around people spending money they don't have. Trying to fix that problem is a fool's errand.

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Yep, and I am almost at the point that employers force their workforce to save and invest as a condition of employment or the government does. I am not a fan of coercion but failure to save/invest because of poor lifestyle choices cannot be rewarded.
People with severe budgetary constraints due to health issues? Federal subsidies dumped into individual savings accounts either through tax breaks or direct payments into those accounts. I want people to have zero excuse to not save unless they are mentally incompetent or ill.

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I think there must be a rule that at least 10% of all paychecks are sent to the Govt like a tax and put in a market index fund like S&P or DOW indexed fund. Some will ask who the hell gave the Government the right but then they take away medicare and SS from my paycheck, they can take this also.
Of course for those who have a 401k and invest, this would not apply.

Any other ideas?

B-1 83 said:

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I'm convinced there are multitudes of people who don't know any better. They've had no examples ahead of them and have no concept of saving - it's just credit cards and loans to them. Their parents are still working at 70 and that's the way they think things are.

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I think you are right. No role models. And some people think we are Americans, we can do whatever the hell we want, you can't stop me! all that arrogance goes away when they get old.

Saving must be forced by law.

General Jack D. Ripper said:

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After expenses and investments in real estate and equities, I have no money left over. Would this be considered living paycheck to paycheck? It sure feels like it.

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No, but then you can always sell your investments and equities and have cash. So no.
I am in a similar situation, I don't have a lot in my checking acc, it's all in some investment so at times it does feel a bit tight and P2P-ish.

ac04 said:

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i have HUNDREDS of dollars invested in what is known as the "money market" most of you would not understand

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do you have a podcast or well-produced youtube channel I can subscribe to?

Y'all ever seen a hearse pulling a U-Haul? Life is for the living baby.

infinity ag said:

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I want to thank everyone on GB for an awesome discussion here today!

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Class act

ac04 said:

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i have HUNDREDS of dollars invested in what is known as the "money market" most of you would not understand

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What's a money market? I put hundreds of dollars in something called Bitcoin back in 2013 and haven't checked on it for awhile. Is the money market better?

FIDO*98* said:

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I'm guessing your CPA friend isn't at the top of the CPA list then. Rich people are a CPAs cash cow. It's the middle class who couldn't even get the loan for a multimillion dollar house that want their tax returns done as cheaply as possible.

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It wasn't the revenue that was an issue. It was getting them to pay their bill.

They are high income but cash poor. Spending every dime they make.

I think you also have to have balance. What's the point of saving every dime, maxing out retirement accounts, and paying off all your debt if you never enjoy your money. Never drive a fun car, never take big vacations, never eat out at fancy restaurants. Live a miserly existence and then keel over dead a year after you retire. Enjoy today and prepare to enjoy tomorrow, including a tomorrow 40-50 years from now. Balance.

EclipseAg said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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I'm guessing your CPA friend isn't at the top of the CPA list then. Rich people are a CPAs cash cow. It's the middle class who couldn't even get the loan for a multimillion dollar house that want their tax returns done as cheaply as possible.

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It wasn't the revenue that was an issue. It was getting them to pay their bill.

They are high income but cash poor. Spending every dime they make.

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It all comes down to spending. The key is to live within one's means. If you make 40k, have a lifestyle that fits within that. If you make 400k, don't lead the life of someone who makes 4 Million. It's all relative and it is better to be conservative and forego some luxuries you think you deserve.

Life is short, yes, but it is long too. It is especially long when you are 75 and homeless. Death just won't come. Act now.

I am paranoid about these things as I know I have no backup in case I screwed up so this has helped me prepare.

There is spending for now and spending for when you cannot earn and are old. Both need to be kept in mind.

It is a balancing act. Simply saving and not enjoying one's today is also not good.

Serious Lee said:

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85 yr old single woman across the street from me has one of the nicest homes in the neighborhood, probably over 5K sq ft. husband left her the house in the divorce 30 years ago but no money. she hasnt worked in 40 years, quit paying property taxes 20 years ago. has charitable organizations doing her lawn/landscaping. doesnt seem to have an ounce of shame either. some people just know how to get by.

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Need the blueprint on this strategy!

Most people don't understand compound interest and how powerful it is for savings and also are not willing to sacrifice any of now for later.

They keep thinking they can always save later and keep pushing it off but don't realize how much more they would have to save vs starting early. If you wait till 35 instead of starting at 25, you'll have to save over 2x per year to get to the same point. If you want till 45 and you're looking at 5x.

Simply starting early will give you the option to spend more of your money through out your life. A bit of frugality in your 20s will give you a lot more spending power in your 30s and 40s as your salary goes up.

Building wealth is about creating the biggest gap between what you earn and what you spend.

That's why we hear of people earning $40k who have saved millions. And people earning $400k who are broke.

That being said, you also need to live. So the key is cutting out those silly expenses that don't substantially add to quality of life

This will be different for different people. For me, it's brewing my own coffee vs the $5 Starbucks. It's carrying my own lunch to work vs going out to eat. It's driving a nice Honda Accord Sport vs. a Brodozer truck.

Quote:

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It's driving a nice Honda Accord Sport vs. a Brodozer truck.

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sorry but this example doesn't fit with the others.

Some people use the capabilities of trucks. Your accord sport isn't pulling our camping trailer, and I've used the bed of my truck so many times over the years I can't even count. Yard projects, house projects, etc.

This year alone, I bet I've done 20 loads of stuff.. rocks, mulch, concrete bags, lumber, etc.

Having said that, it's a stock F150 FX4 powerboost. I don't know the parameters of your terminology.

I've always been pretty good at living within the means. My wife was a stay-at-home mom for 20 years. We had one kid (tried for others but no luck). I was anal about no debt early on other than house/cars. I didn't make anywhere near 6 figures, and we didn't eat sandwiches either. We went on vacations every year, I was able to save enough to where my daughter will graduate debt free in a year. She goes to Lamar and lives at home. I don't invest, but will have a nice retirement in about 6 years if we elect the right president. Retirement might be a foreign concept if we don't.

No bragging here, just say all that to say, I was constantly evaluating our household budget and finding ways not go overboard with stuff. Thanks to youtube, I do 90% of all house and car maintenance/repairs myself. Always shopping for lower insurance premiums. I've found that there are always clever ways to cut back without sacrificing too much.

Which is why I prefaced my comments with "it depends on the individual".

You gotta admit that half the brodozers out there haven't had anything heavier than a bag of groceries in the back.

fc2112 said:

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Which is why I prefaced my comments with "it depends on the individual".

You gotta admit that half the brodozers out there haven't had anything heavier than a bag of groceries in the back.

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maybe.. but just like half the sports cars out there have never been on a track.. Have you taken your accord sport to a track?

Only one thing in the vehicle world is for sure, nearly every mini van out there has toted around some kids.

People make to many payments.

saw em off said:

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I've always been pretty good at living within the means. My wife was a stay-at-home mom for 20 years. We had one kid (tried for others but no luck). I was anal about no debt early on other than house/cars. I didn't make anywhere near 6 figures, and we didn't eat sandwiches either. We went on vacations every year, I was able to save enough to where my daughter will graduate debt free in a year. She goes to Lamar and lives at home. I don't invest, but will have a nice retirement in about 6 years if we elect the right president. Retirement might be a foreign concept if we don't.

No bragging here, just say all that to say, I was constantly evaluating our household budget and finding ways not go overboard with stuff. Thanks to youtube, I do 90% of all house and car maintenance/repairs myself. Always shopping for lower insurance premiums. I've found that there are always clever ways to cut back without sacrificing too much.

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Investing in the market is pretty much agnostic when it comes to presidential candidates except for Biden's stupidity over energy policy early on. The parties depend on a healthy economy to maintain legitimacy and if investors don't prosper, they don't invest or find alternative venues in which to park their money, which means the economy spirals down. The stupidity of people like Harris' advisor who wanted to tax unrealized capital gains quickly earned rebukes from almost every media source, shutting that down quickly, because the crazy anti capitalist and antisemitic Left will never be allowed to take power for long.

great thread.

I think a big aspect is how you were raised and what you were taught growing up. I have several friends who struggle big time trying to keep up with the Jones'. I'd bet everything I own that if they were forced to come up with $10k on the spot they'd have no way of doing it. Living beyond people means is the biggest thing. Too much house, stupid car payments, etc. It doesn't help our friends that a large majority of all of our family friends come from family money and they just don't understand why some people have it different than others.

Luckily I was raised by two hard working parents who saved, invest well, and did smart things. Never took any big vacations, etc but we lived comfortably and I had everything I needed. It's resonated with me. My wife gets pissed when I tell her NO, we arent going to get new couches, remodel this or that, etc. She gets pissed, but down the road when a random expense comes up, or when we get invited to do something where we need a few $ she appreciates me keeping us in our lane and not living outside our means.

Again, a lot goes back to being mentally strong and not worrying about projecting an image, when in reality the people who you're trying to impress either don't give a ****, or are struggling themselves. social media has made this problem even bigger for many. Luckily for me I'm comfortable in my own skin and don't really give a **** what others think. We damn sure are far from rich, but we are comfortable for what we have. Will we ever get to fully retire and live on the 18th green? No, but hopefully one of my kids will be rich and they can help pay our bills. Fingers crossed.

vin1041 said:

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People make to many payments.

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agreed 100%. The good thing about people though who choose to finance tons of boats, cars, UTV's etc is that I dont have to buy one. I can just milk them having it for the time being since they then feel obligated to use them since they are paying for it.

Excellent comments. Those of us raised by parents who experienced the Great Depression first hand benefited greatly from their frugality and fear of economic privation.
Combining their fear of want and an education in the market has created enormous surplus wealth in this country.