GiveEmHellBill,
Do you have a brother named Greg?
Do you have a brother named Greg?
Whats a Mason?
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Last: 21 yr ago by
Except the Freemasons aren't the oldest fraternity. They are however the largest one.
Kappa Sigma has been around much longer than the Freemasons (it has been in existance since 1400 when it was founded in Bologna, Italy).
There are numerous other college fraternities that have been around much longer than the Freemasons.
Kappa Sigma has been around much longer than the Freemasons (it has been in existance since 1400 when it was founded in Bologna, Italy).
There are numerous other college fraternities that have been around much longer than the Freemasons.
my grandfather was one
Vander, the Kappa Sigma website says it was established in 1869.
If you count the Regius or Halliwell manuscripts Freemasonry can show existance to the 13th Century.
If you count the Regius or Halliwell manuscripts Freemasonry can show existance to the 13th Century.
Vander- Look up a document called the Regius manuscript, Proof that Masonry predates 1400
1717 was the year that premier english Grand Lodge was established
1717 was the year that premier english Grand Lodge was established
MM here... Cedar Creek #300 in good ol' Kurten, Texas.
On the list of Texas A&M Freemasons people should not forget: MG Earl Rudder or LTG James Hollingsworth.
MM also. Slidell Lodge #311. Slidell, Louisiana.
The Masonic organizations have been a part of my family for several generations - Masons, Eastern Star, Rainbows, Demolays. My father was a dedicated Mason. I believe he would have ranked the important things in his life as God, his family and his Masonic family. His faith was evident in his everyday life, and his service through the Masons was a wonderful gift. Bob, I am very aware of the importance and honor of being a Grand Cross of Color member. Congratulations and thank you for the hard work I know you did to earn it.
I have an uncle who is a mason. Every once in a while when I was growing up, we would go to watch some promotion ceremony or whatever that he was in.
One of the things I noticed was that the wives and other women related to these masons sure were treated like second-class citizens. In other words, the women were all 'expected' to congregate in the kitchen and take care of the food, etc. while the 'men' talked and took care of business in the other room.
Most of these guys were pretty old so one could chalk it up to just the culture often found with older people where women are kitchen dwellers. However, I have heard from others over the years that they kind of observed what I did too. Any thoughts?
One of the things I noticed was that the wives and other women related to these masons sure were treated like second-class citizens. In other words, the women were all 'expected' to congregate in the kitchen and take care of the food, etc. while the 'men' talked and took care of business in the other room.
Most of these guys were pretty old so one could chalk it up to just the culture often found with older people where women are kitchen dwellers. However, I have heard from others over the years that they kind of observed what I did too. Any thoughts?
At the risk of inviting him to ttt it: http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=12&topic_id=229616
Derivative of Knights Templar but many years, beliefs, and functions later....
quote:
One of the things I noticed was that the wives and other women related to these masons sure were treated like second-class citizens. In other words, the women were all 'expected' to congregate in the kitchen and take care of the food, etc. while the 'men' talked and took care of business in the other room.
Where do you get "second-class citizens" from that? It's pretty common at any big gathering for the woman to take care of the food and stuff.
We do it at our family reunions and I certainly don't feel like a second class citizen. I did it for years at Masonic events. I also did it for years at Eastern Star and Rainbow events which are female orgnanizations -- and there was usually a Mason or two in the kitchen washing dishes or helping with food right along with us. Of course, that was the ones who weren't out where the event was held setting up/taking down chairs, tables, and any other heavy thing that had to be moved around.
I think the Masons are a crappy organization because they let my selfish, arrogant, a-hole brother-in-law into their organization.
The only thing good about them is that Fred Flintstone was something like a Mason.
The only thing good about them is that Fred Flintstone was something like a Mason.
Civil, are you a man? Were you in the kitchen?
they may be all lovey dovey do-gooders, but their rituals are WEIRD. I've had to recreate some of their teaching/study materials and that stuff was just WEIRD.
Kappa Sigma has not been around longer than Freemasonry. Lay off the roids, man.
i must say the new medicine seems to be working extremely well.
It sounds like Civil just doesn't understand the benefits or responsibilities of being in the kitchen.
To be invited to work in the kitchen is a step to adulthood for a girl. Otherwise you are out setting the table or playing with the "little kids". You get to listen to gossip and the jokes and eventually you may be allowed to speak.
In the kitchen, you get to see the food first, sample it, and you get the recipes. You also get to brag on other's cooking and listen to people brag on yours, or bask in the glory of Aunt Odessa's famous chocolate pie that she passed the recipe on to you, but you "don't do it quite as well as she used to". Aunt Odessa may have died 50 years ago, which makes the compliment even greater.
If you are an adult woman not being allowed to be in the kitchen is being told in a subtle and not so subtle way, you aren't responsible or trust worthy. If you are an older woman, being exiled out to the living room is being told you are a "dying elephant". Unless of course you are supervising the little kids or the girls putting silverware on the table. (you are still a dying elephant but at least it is dignified) When you see a woman saying she is too tired to be in the kitchen, she is sending a very strong an troubling signal.
As a man, you may learn or hear more than you ever wanted to know. This is why the men that are in the kitchen are the "old experienced husband types", their hearing aids don't work well or they are as deaf as a post. If you can hear, you don't repeat a word, even to your wife, mother, sister, daughter... I think they allow repeating things to your widow, but I am not sure.
To be invited to work in the kitchen is a step to adulthood for a girl. Otherwise you are out setting the table or playing with the "little kids". You get to listen to gossip and the jokes and eventually you may be allowed to speak.
In the kitchen, you get to see the food first, sample it, and you get the recipes. You also get to brag on other's cooking and listen to people brag on yours, or bask in the glory of Aunt Odessa's famous chocolate pie that she passed the recipe on to you, but you "don't do it quite as well as she used to". Aunt Odessa may have died 50 years ago, which makes the compliment even greater.
If you are an adult woman not being allowed to be in the kitchen is being told in a subtle and not so subtle way, you aren't responsible or trust worthy. If you are an older woman, being exiled out to the living room is being told you are a "dying elephant". Unless of course you are supervising the little kids or the girls putting silverware on the table. (you are still a dying elephant but at least it is dignified) When you see a woman saying she is too tired to be in the kitchen, she is sending a very strong an troubling signal.
As a man, you may learn or hear more than you ever wanted to know. This is why the men that are in the kitchen are the "old experienced husband types", their hearing aids don't work well or they are as deaf as a post. If you can hear, you don't repeat a word, even to your wife, mother, sister, daughter... I think they allow repeating things to your widow, but I am not sure.
^ o.k. that was WEIRD (kitchen = acceptance as a good wife/woman. glad to know my worth is judged by my placement in the room of a house), but it doesn't even come close to the WEIRD stuff that goes on in those meeting sometimes. did i mention they are WEIRD.
And you've been to how many?
quote:
To be invited to work in the kitchen is a step to adulthood for a girl.
Yep, I think my observations were just validated. Welcome to 1953.
Yes, I am a man (happily married) who was actually in a fraternity while at A&M (loved it to), but to be honest, perpetuating that 'separation' type of mindset and being actively engaged it in beyond the college years is really unconscionable to me at this point in my life.
I'm not saying don't be a mason - they're a private organization so they can do whatever they want within the law of the land. However, it does seem that many of the associated attitudes are similar to the quote above - that women have a 'place' and in other words, there is nothing wrong with inequity.
Based on the comments of this thread, I suppose that I am now taking more of an issue with child raising but I won't get into that. I will say that I think it's very unfortunate that females are still being indoctrinated by individuals with these types of 'separate but equal' mindsets though - very unfortunate. And the really sad part is, it's not just men who do it, it's women too.
You know Civil, for a person who claims to come from a family that allows 5 year olds (very pre-1950s) to hunt, you seem pretty much out of the loop in your family.
Tell me, have they allowed you to touch raw meat yet, let alone get near the BBQ pit?
Tell me, have they allowed you to touch raw meat yet, let alone get near the BBQ pit?
Wordsworth...
Where and why did you do this? Did they ask you to? Do you work for a publishing company?
quote:
their rituals are WEIRD. I've had to recreate some of their teaching/study materials and that stuff was just WEIRD.
Where and why did you do this? Did they ask you to? Do you work for a publishing company?
No, I just choose to think that putting a Barbie doll and Easy-Bake Oven in the hands of a girl and dropping the attitude on her that the kitchen is her 'priveledge,' in many ways precludes her from several aspirations in life.
There are many in my family, my mother included, who think there's nothing wrong with this perspective - that women have their role and that men have another that is different. Since you mentioned it, my brother and I were taken hunting at a certain age but my sister was never was. Why? Because my grandfather and dad never bothered to consider that she might actually want to be included. Ironically, my sister is now a lawyer and I'm shocked really (obviously damn proud though) that that ever happened given the attitude of my mother and many in my family.
Interestingly, my wife, whose family as a whole is incredibly traditional, is one of the most girly people I know when it comes to woman things, but she has killed more deer than me and all the guys I know combined. She's also a hell of a civil engineer and community leader. Why? Her dad chose not to exclude her in such ways when she was growing up. She's a great cook - likes to do it too, which is good because I like to eat - and she will often hang out in the kitchen, but she in no way sees it has her 'place'.
As for being out of the loop, I guess the meaning in that is rather subjective. If being out of the loop means not treating a women like second-class citizens, directly or indirectly, then I only see that as a good thing. I'm just disappointed that someone would want to promote something otherwise.
There are many in my family, my mother included, who think there's nothing wrong with this perspective - that women have their role and that men have another that is different. Since you mentioned it, my brother and I were taken hunting at a certain age but my sister was never was. Why? Because my grandfather and dad never bothered to consider that she might actually want to be included. Ironically, my sister is now a lawyer and I'm shocked really (obviously damn proud though) that that ever happened given the attitude of my mother and many in my family.
Interestingly, my wife, whose family as a whole is incredibly traditional, is one of the most girly people I know when it comes to woman things, but she has killed more deer than me and all the guys I know combined. She's also a hell of a civil engineer and community leader. Why? Her dad chose not to exclude her in such ways when she was growing up. She's a great cook - likes to do it too, which is good because I like to eat - and she will often hang out in the kitchen, but she in no way sees it has her 'place'.
As for being out of the loop, I guess the meaning in that is rather subjective. If being out of the loop means not treating a women like second-class citizens, directly or indirectly, then I only see that as a good thing. I'm just disappointed that someone would want to promote something otherwise.
Civil
How progressive of you.
My Mother graduated Summa Cum Laude from TSCW with a BS in Chemistry and a BA in Latin. She was an editor and publisher of a weekly newspaper until her death at age 39 (Colon Cancer). Her mother and grandmother ran the kitchen on all family events and my Mother loved the kitchen. She also played catcher on a Little League (boy) team in Ft. Smith, Ark in the late '30s and early 40s and was a Rainbow Girl there. Her father never took either her or her brother fishing or hunting. Even though he was an avid fisherman.
My Father's Mother with a degree in Teaching for J.C. Tarleton Teacher's College, 1920, was the town's Postmistress for 3 years, and the editor and publisher of the weekly newspaper mentioned above after her husband died. She later became the wife of a Baptist Pastor and a 60 year member of the Eastern Star, was happiest in the kitchen (even if she couldn't cook). Her daughter later became a successful real estate agent in Rockport and her daughters (my cousins) consist of a very successful lawyer now located in Austin (and her son was a Mascot Corporal), another is teacher in Rockport and real estate agent and the youngest daughter is the wife of a football coach in a Class A school in north Texas and last I talked to her had a Radio Shack store.
My wife has a degree in Biology and a minor is Chemistry Cum Laude) from A&M and is a Medical Technologist, (lead Tech).
Working in the kitchen or having a family where girls are raised as girls (and being a girl is a lot harder than it looks), doesn't mean they are expected to be barefoot and pregnant their entire lives or they are second class citizens.
I guess you are embarassed that having to kill something was a "rite of passage" to manhood for you.
How progressive of you.
My Mother graduated Summa Cum Laude from TSCW with a BS in Chemistry and a BA in Latin. She was an editor and publisher of a weekly newspaper until her death at age 39 (Colon Cancer). Her mother and grandmother ran the kitchen on all family events and my Mother loved the kitchen. She also played catcher on a Little League (boy) team in Ft. Smith, Ark in the late '30s and early 40s and was a Rainbow Girl there. Her father never took either her or her brother fishing or hunting. Even though he was an avid fisherman.
My Father's Mother with a degree in Teaching for J.C. Tarleton Teacher's College, 1920, was the town's Postmistress for 3 years, and the editor and publisher of the weekly newspaper mentioned above after her husband died. She later became the wife of a Baptist Pastor and a 60 year member of the Eastern Star, was happiest in the kitchen (even if she couldn't cook). Her daughter later became a successful real estate agent in Rockport and her daughters (my cousins) consist of a very successful lawyer now located in Austin (and her son was a Mascot Corporal), another is teacher in Rockport and real estate agent and the youngest daughter is the wife of a football coach in a Class A school in north Texas and last I talked to her had a Radio Shack store.
My wife has a degree in Biology and a minor is Chemistry Cum Laude) from A&M and is a Medical Technologist, (lead Tech).
Working in the kitchen or having a family where girls are raised as girls (and being a girl is a lot harder than it looks), doesn't mean they are expected to be barefoot and pregnant their entire lives or they are second class citizens.
I guess you are embarassed that having to kill something was a "rite of passage" to manhood for you.
No embarrassment here, I still have those first 4-pts mounted at my parents house.
I agree with your point that it is very difficult for girls to grow up. In a very real sense, they're expected to be able to function in two worlds at a much higher level if they choose to live in those two worlds.
For example, my wife spoke at a women in engineering conference and there was another woman speaker (very successful, smart, cordial, attractive - was a well-known CEO or something) but she had chosen not to have children and have a career instead - she was married though. No big deal right? Wrong. My wife said many of the women at her table went nuts under their breaths when they found that out. That part came at the end the women's speech and up until that part she was admired and a role model. When she mentioned that, my wife said the women immediately began to go into 'she is a failure' mode.
It sounds like your family is quite successful, something to be very proud of. My family background, along with my wife's, is pretty different than this. For example, I was the first person in my relatively immediate family to go to college - I'll be the first one that I know of in the entire history of my family to get a PhD, but I digress.
I suppose that I've just encountered too many women (so many at A&M too) who don't think they're good/smart/talented enough to aspire or participate in the same things as a man. I'm an engineer and not an education/psychology major, but I have to feel that much of this is caused by separating and identifying females with certain types of things/activities and not others, while they are growing up.
[This message has been edited by Civil (edited 7/16/2004 6:31p).]
I agree with your point that it is very difficult for girls to grow up. In a very real sense, they're expected to be able to function in two worlds at a much higher level if they choose to live in those two worlds.
For example, my wife spoke at a women in engineering conference and there was another woman speaker (very successful, smart, cordial, attractive - was a well-known CEO or something) but she had chosen not to have children and have a career instead - she was married though. No big deal right? Wrong. My wife said many of the women at her table went nuts under their breaths when they found that out. That part came at the end the women's speech and up until that part she was admired and a role model. When she mentioned that, my wife said the women immediately began to go into 'she is a failure' mode.
It sounds like your family is quite successful, something to be very proud of. My family background, along with my wife's, is pretty different than this. For example, I was the first person in my relatively immediate family to go to college - I'll be the first one that I know of in the entire history of my family to get a PhD, but I digress.
I suppose that I've just encountered too many women (so many at A&M too) who don't think they're good/smart/talented enough to aspire or participate in the same things as a man. I'm an engineer and not an education/psychology major, but I have to feel that much of this is caused by separating and identifying females with certain types of things/activities and not others, while they are growing up.
[This message has been edited by Civil (edited 7/16/2004 6:31p).]
The point of this thread has turned (?)....
I'm not sure that the masons have to believe in God, but believe in A god. I could be wrong on that...
The freemasons protect the bloodline of Jesus along with a secret order of Catholic priests.
Add George Washington and most of the founding fathers.
quote:
I'm not sure that the masons have to believe in God, but believe in A god. I could be wrong on that...
??????
Whats the difference between "God" and "A God?"
I'm reading a book called "The Second Messiah" right now. Pretty interesting. Anyhow, its mostly about the Knights Templar which, from what I know, Freemasons are a derivative of. The Knights Templar believed in Jesus as a prophet not a divine being. They believed in God, but just didn't believe in the Trinity as Christians do.
Bob75, Kappa Sigma was founded in 1869 in the US, but it had been in existence for a long time in Bologna, Italy (since 1400).
I've been looking online and I've seen nothing that would indicate Freemasonry in its present form existed before 1717. Oh there is lots of information that says many different secret societies probably folded and formed the Freemasons but the Freemasons were only formed in 1717.
Yet I can easily find information about other fraternities that have been around much longer than that.
I've been looking online and I've seen nothing that would indicate Freemasonry in its present form existed before 1717. Oh there is lots of information that says many different secret societies probably folded and formed the Freemasons but the Freemasons were only formed in 1717.
Yet I can easily find information about other fraternities that have been around much longer than that.
quote:
but the Freemasons were only formed in 1717.
1717 is simply when the first grand lodge of England was formed (not when Freemasonry was formed). Freemasons were around long before that date, that is just when several lodges in England got together and formed a grand lodge.
You are claiming that your fraternity didnt come to the US until the 1800s, and that it did exist in Italy for some time before then. Well, this is kind of the same thing. Freemasonry existed in Scotland, England, and Ireland for a long time before several lodges got organized in England in 1717.
[This message has been edited by Aggie99 (edited 7/17/2004 12:25p).]
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