Yettanudder tipping thread.
So basically these greedy business owners want to enrich themselves (which is not wrong) but very cleverly are trying to make their customers pay for their overhead. We have many foolish customers incl some on this board who give multiple reasons about why customers must pay.

Nowadays many places don't even have many people working and is largely self-serve but they still want to be tipped!

Ha. I am shameless so I just say no and move on. Emotional blackmail doesn't work on me. I don't believe in tipping as a regular thing anyway. It's not my problem if you cannot pay your wait staff. Increase prices if you want or go out of business. America is a capitalist country.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tipping-self-checkout-restaurants-airports-c3e09f7
Tipping at Self-Checkout Has Customers Crying 'Emotional Blackmail'
By Rachel Wolfe

May 8, 2023 5:30 am ET

Quote:

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Zero interaction with employees during a transaction no longer guarantees freedom from the moral quandary of how much to tip.
Prompts to leave 20% at self-checkout machines at airports, stadiums, cookie shops and cafes across the country are rankling consumers already inundated by the proliferation of tip screens. Business owners say the automated cues can significantly increase gratuities and boost staff pay. But the unmanned prompts are leading more customers to question what, exactly, the tips are for.

"They're cutting labor costs by doing self-checkout. So what's the point of asking for a tip? And where is it going?" says I****a Jamar, a senior at American University in Washington, D.C., who has noticed more self-serve tip cues at restaurants she frequents.
Tipping researchers and labor advocates say so-called tip creep is a way for employers to put the onus for employee pay onto consumers, rather than raising wages themselves. Companies say tips are an optional thanks for a job well done.

Businesses "are taking advantage of an opportunity," says William Michael Lynn, who studies consumer behavior and tip culture as a professor at Cornell University's Nolan School of Hotel Administration. "Who wouldn't want to get extra money at very little cost if you could?"

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infinity ag said:

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Yettanudder tipping thread.
So basically these greedy business owners want to enrich themselves (which is not wrong) but very cleverly are trying to make their customers pay for their overhead. We have many foolish customers incl some on this board who give multiple reasons about why customers must pay.

Nowadays many places don't even have many people working and is largely self-serve but they still want to be tipped!

Ha. I am shameless so I just say no and move on. Emotional blackmail doesn't work on me. I don't believe in tipping as a regular thing anyway. It's not my problem if you cannot pay your wait staff. Increase prices if you want or go out of business. America is a capitalist country.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tipping-self-checkout-restaurants-airports-c3e09f7
Tipping at Self-Checkout Has Customers Crying 'Emotional Blackmail'
By Rachel Wolfe

May 8, 2023 5:30 am ET

Quote:

---

Zero interaction with employees during a transaction no longer guarantees freedom from the moral quandary of how much to tip.
Prompts to leave 20% at self-checkout machines at airports, stadiums, cookie shops and cafes across the country are rankling consumers already inundated by the proliferation of tip screens. Business owners say the automated cues can significantly increase gratuities and boost staff pay. But the unmanned prompts are leading more customers to question what, exactly, the tips are for.

"They're cutting labor costs by doing self-checkout. So what's the point of asking for a tip? And where is it going?" says I****a Jamar, a senior at American University in Washington, D.C., who has noticed more self-serve tip cues at restaurants she frequents.
Tipping researchers and labor advocates say so-called tip creep is a way for employers to put the onus for employee pay onto consumers, rather than raising wages themselves. Companies say tips are an optional thanks for a job well done.

Businesses "are taking advantage of an opportunity," says William Michael Lynn, who studies consumer behavior and tip culture as a professor at Cornell University's Nolan School of Hotel Administration. "Who wouldn't want to get extra money at very little cost if you could?"

---

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the ONLY time I tip at a checkout where im not being actually served and waited on is small local owned places that are near where I live….and that's only one or two places…at most

Wife and I went to one of our local establishments out close to the horseshoe the other day and left a 20% tip. They brought everyone other tables food to them, but when our turn came, my number was called to walk up and pick it up. After that, they had the honor of bussing their own table. I hope the wind didn't scatter the trash around.

Along these lines, wife and I went to a local brewery in our town, had some beers and an appetizer. Swipe the card on their little ipad thingy, and it auto populated a few tip options, 20%, 18% etc.

I chose 20%, and then after we left I realized we bought some merch as well.. a $35 hat. So of the $100 tab and the 20% suggested tip of $20, $7 of that is being calculated off a hat.

Had I noticed it before I completed the transaction, I would have tipped on only the $65 worth of food and drink, and not on the added merch. No reason why they really deserve another $7 for me picking a hat off the rack.

I guess I don't blame the system they use, I doubt they've really thought about it. But you never know, maybe they know they can program the tip suggestions to only be on food/drink, and simply chose to ignore it.

You know you about to get screwed when the iPad comes out.

The other trick is the tip is on the food cost. NOT on the tax.
So if your bill is $100 after $10 tax, you pay your 20% on the $90, not on the $10.

I have seen places that calculate on the entire amount. Crooks.

infinity ag said:

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The other trick is the tip is on the food cost. NOT on the tax.
So if your bill is $100 after $10 tax, you pay your 20% on the $90, not on the $10.

I have seen places that calculate on the entire amount. Crooks.

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This is only a ~1.6% difference..
40 cents on a $25 lunch.

62strat said:

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infinity ag said:

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The other trick is the tip is on the food cost. NOT on the tax.
So if your bill is $100 after $10 tax, you pay your 20% on the $90, not on the $10.

I have seen places that calculate on the entire amount. Crooks.

---

This is only a ~1.6% difference..
40 cents on a $25 lunch.

---

LOOK AT ME. I FREQUENT FINE DINING ESTABLISHMENTS FOR LUNCH!

NoahAg said:

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62strat said:

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infinity ag said:

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The other trick is the tip is on the food cost. NOT on the tax.
So if your bill is $100 after $10 tax, you pay your 20% on the $90, not on the $10.

I have seen places that calculate on the entire amount. Crooks.

---

This is only a ~1.6% difference..
40 cents on a $25 lunch.

---

LOOK AT ME. I FREQUENT FINE DINING ESTABLISHMENTS FOR LUNCH!

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First of all, who said that is for one person..
Second of all, that is hardly fine dining even if one person.
Third of all, Ok, 16 cents on your $10 sonic meal.

What about when you go to the supermarket and they ask if you want to donate a dollar to the sickly smiling kid in the picture near the register? I tell them I can actually give more if I eliminate the middle man and get the tax deduction myself, so the answer is "no".

62strat said:

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Along these lines, wife and I went to a local brewery in our town, had some beers and an appetizer. Swipe the card on their little ipad thingy, and it auto populated a few tip options, 20%, 18% etc.

I chose 20%, and then after we left I realized we bought some merch as well.. a $35 hat. So of the $100 tab and the 20% suggested tip of $20, $7 of that is being calculated off a hat.

Had I noticed it before I completed the transaction, I would have tipped on only the $65 worth of food and drink, and not on the added merch. No reason why they really deserve another $7 for me picking a hat off the rack.
.

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Bet the business pockets the non food tips. Only the food tips get distributed to the employees.

At rodeo this year they had the typical tip at the kiosk at the beer counter. I was planning on tipping the typical $1 a beer and was paying with a card. The bartender let us know that he wasn't going to get any of the tip if we did that. I thought that was pretty dang nice of him to let us know! And exceptionally sleazy of whoever is running the concession stands.

I like it that every business now asks me to tip for every little thing they do. I've become so numb to it that I don't feel guilty for changing the auto-populated 20% to "NO TIP". Now I know how other cultures feel.

BostonAg74 said:

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What about when you go to the supermarket and they ask if you want to donate a dollar to the sickly smiling kid in the picture near the register? I tell them I can actually give more if I eliminate the middle man and get the tax deduction myself, so the answer is "no".

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Do you just find a smiling kid on the street and give them a dollar and they give you a tax receipt?

It's gotten exhausting how many businesses ask for tips nowadays. I've just developed my own rules-based approach where:

If I haven't sat down or will sit down in the business, the tip is $0.00. Period.

If it's a fast-casual type place where you order, sit down, and they bring food, tip up to 10%.

If it's a full-service restaurant, then conventional 15-20% tip applies based on quality of the service.

Oh they absolutely know because that's how square and the other newer POS merchants have expanded so quickly. They show these places the data on how easily they can increase their bottom line with these auto tipping functions.

My buddy sent a picture of a self check kiosk that asked for tips.

I don't have any issue tipping zero outside of the normal services one tips for.

62strat said:

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infinity ag said:

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The other trick is the tip is on the food cost. NOT on the tax.
So if your bill is $100 after $10 tax, you pay your 20% on the $90, not on the $10.

I have seen places that calculate on the entire amount. Crooks.

---

This is only a ~1.6% difference..
40 cents on a $25 lunch.

---

Over 60 frikkin years of your life. Add in inflation that the liberals foisted upon us.

Took my daughter to breakfast on Friday before school at a local diner. Went to pay with my Amex, the preloaded tip options were:
- 30%
- 40%
- 50%
- Custom

I tipped 15%. But this was by far the most egregious preprogrammed suggested tips I've seen. I'm done with tipping. Almost as bad when I went to the convenience store and there was a tip jar on the counter.

Tipping needs to die. Just make the restaurants pay their waitstaff a normal wage, and include it in the price of the food. The way it works in other countries. Or even other businesses in the US. Like, when you buy a pair of shoes, you just pay the price of the shoes and the sales tax. You aren't expected to add another 15-20% to pay the salesman.

Furlock Bones said:

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My buddy sent a picture of a self check kiosk that asked for tips.

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Cool!

I'm an old. Think in the future I'll just write on the tip space "You can have my senior discount"….not that there is one, of course, but it's the thought of an old giving to a youngin' that counts. Amirite!?

380sl said:

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Took my daughter to breakfast on Friday before school at a local diner. Went to pay with my Amex, the preloaded tip options were:
- 30%
- 40%
- 50%
- Custom

I tipped 15%. But this was by far the most egregious preprogrammed suggested tips I've seen. I'm done with tipping. Almost as bad when I went to the convenience store and there was a tip jar on the counter.

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F, seriously?? 50%?? I have never seen that myself. I've seen it going to 25% or maybe 30%.

This is overkill. Each of us should resolve to pay no more than 10%. That itself is a lot. Let capitalism play out and the bad businesses get weeded out.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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Tipping needs to die. Just make the restaurants pay their waitstaff a normal wage, and include it in the price of the food. The way it works in other countries. Or even other businesses in the US. Like, when you buy a pair of shoes, you just pay the price of the shoes and the sales tax. You aren't expected to add another 15-20% to pay the salesman.

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I fully agree. Then there is no confusion. Tip expectation is cheating. Fraud.

The problem is many people worked as wait staff during college days and have a soft corner for them. So now that they are out of their lolpoor days they over tip. I had a few coworkers who would overtip to showoff. One was a HR guy making very low (this was 20 years ago) and giving 30% when I, as an engineer was giving 15%.

TriAg2010 said:

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It's gotten exhausting how many businesses ask for tips nowadays. I've just developed my own rules-based approach where:

If I haven't sat down or will sit down in the business, the tip is $0.00. Period.

If it's a fast-casual type place where you order, sit down, and they bring food, tip up to 10%.

If it's a full-service restaurant, then conventional 15-20% tip applies based on quality of the service.

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This. Not that it matters much but I have extensive, albeit dated experience in the restaurant industry as a server, head wait and bartender.

Texker said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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It's gotten exhausting how many businesses ask for tips nowadays. I've just developed my own rules-based approach where:

If I haven't sat down or will sit down in the business, the tip is $0.00. Period.

If it's a fast-casual type place where you order, sit down, and they bring food, tip up to 10%.

If it's a full-service restaurant, then conventional 15-20% tip applies based on quality of the service.

---

This. Not that it matters much but I have extensive, albeit dated experience in the restaurant industry as a server, head wait and bartender.

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Do the chefs/cooks and backoffice guys get anything? Or is it just for the hot waitresses who flirt with customers?

infinity ag said:

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Texker said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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It's gotten exhausting how many businesses ask for tips nowadays. I've just developed my own rules-based approach where:

If I haven't sat down or will sit down in the business, the tip is $0.00. Period.

If it's a fast-casual type place where you order, sit down, and they bring food, tip up to 10%.

If it's a full-service restaurant, then conventional 15-20% tip applies based on quality of the service.

---

This. Not that it matters much but I have extensive, albeit dated experience in the restaurant industry as a server, head wait and bartender.

---

Do the chefs/cooks and backoffice guys get anything? Or is it just for the hot waitresses who flirt with customers?

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We always had to tip out our bus boys are bartenders.

Cooks didn't make $2.15/hr like us so we didn't tip them.

TriAg2010 said:

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If I haven't sat down or will sit down in the business, the tip is $0.00. Period.

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So getting a cocktail/beer at a SRO concert venue, you don't tip because you aren't going to sit?

That's a weird logic.

Tip for restaurant owners: Pay YOUR employees a fair wage...what a concept. Customers if they wish to tip can take it from there. Stop offending customers with prompts.

The idea that a tip is warranted for filling a plastic cup with beer is weird logic.

At a bar where the bartender actually makes drinks, and is a person you may order from again in the future is a different situation.

GAC06 said:

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The idea that a tip is warranted for filling a plastic cup with beer is weird logic.

At a bar where the bartender actually makes drinks, and is a person you may order from again in the future is a different situation.

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Charge $14 plus tax on a 16 oz beer in a plastic cup, then ask for a 18-25% tip for pouring it? F that my dude.

rilloaggie said:

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At rodeo this year they had the typical tip at the kiosk at the beer counter. I was planning on tipping the typical $1 a beer and was paying with a card. The bartender let us know that he wasn't going to get any of the tip if we did that. I thought that was pretty dang nice of him to let us know! And exceptionally sleazy of whoever is running the concession stands.

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A server at one of the beer stands at Kyle Field told me the same thing, they get none of the tip money. So if you include a tip all you are doing is paying the vender more for that beer.

I am against tipping in general but I am okay if the real poor folks (wait staff, cooks) get the money. Not the rich-ass restaurant owner.

If he cannot pay his staff enough, they need to quit. This is capitalism. It is not my job as your customer to support you so you can stay in business. I don't pay your staff wages.