RealTalk said:

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62strat said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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62strat said:

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If a customer gets a $70 steak, how should they calculate their tip, knowing that the waiter has the to put in the same amount work for that steak as he does for a $7 side salad, or a $20 sandwich, or a $2 drink?

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The server shouldn't calculate their tip, that's the customer's decision. If I tip $5 in each of those scenarios, the reaction should be the same thanks but it's not.

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so you think $5 for the entry level server at chilis for your hamburger deserves the same gratitude, and pay, as a seasoned server at a high end restaurant serving you a $100 steak?
Or the barely trained bartender who can hardly get a jack and coke correct and the formally trained craft cocktail bartender should both get $2; when one drink is $10 and the other is $25?

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If both can walk and carry things at the same time efficiently, then they deserve the same tip amount.

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so how are you calculating this tip?

This is a dumb argument because this same scenario is used in so many other industries, but no one complains.

The previously mentioned fixed fee for a contractor, a fixed fee charged by an auction house/ebay, your financial advisor's fee on your investments, a realtor fee, sales tax.

Yes there are exceptions to some of these, but traditionally that's how it's done.

You spend more, and this fee goes up. It's not rocket science.

713nervy said:

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PatAg said:

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Gramercy Riffs said:

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713nervy said:

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Don't want to tip? Get your food to go.

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Want to make the equivalent of whatever 25% of the bill comes to? Don't be a waiter.

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There is also an expectation to tip for to-go as well.

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That's a newer expectation resulting from the pandemic, no? I wonder if that expectation will go away now that dining in is back in full swing.

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I don't know if things are back in "full swing" or not. Some restaurants near me seem to have enough staff to function normally. Others seem short-staffed still, and the ones who are working there seem stressed/harried.

There may still be an overall shortage of workers in the food service industry in general, across the country. Which means some places may still be struggling to hire/keep employees, and as a follow on struggle to keep their businesses as successful as they used to be.

For restaurants in that second category that we like, we tend to tip more to help the harried employees, in hopes of helping keep the places going.

Chains are a different story, I'm not as concerned about them as businesses.

Talking about tipping is way more annoying than tipping. Stop being so old.

62strat said:

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RealTalk said:

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62strat said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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62strat said:

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If a customer gets a $70 steak, how should they calculate their tip, knowing that the waiter has the to put in the same amount work for that steak as he does for a $7 side salad, or a $20 sandwich, or a $2 drink?

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The server shouldn't calculate their tip, that's the customer's decision. If I tip $5 in each of those scenarios, the reaction should be the same thanks but it's not.

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so you think $5 for the entry level server at chilis for your hamburger deserves the same gratitude, and pay, as a seasoned server at a high end restaurant serving you a $100 steak?
Or the barely trained bartender who can hardly get a jack and coke correct and the formally trained craft cocktail bartender should both get $2; when one drink is $10 and the other is $25?

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If both can walk and carry things at the same time efficiently, then they deserve the same tip amount.

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so how are you calculating this tip?

This is a dumb argument because this same scenario is used in so many other industries, but no one complains.

The previously mentioned fixed fee for a contractor, a fixed fee charged by an auction house/ebay, your financial advisor's fee on your investments, a realtor fee, sales tax.

Yes there are exceptions to some of these, but traditionally that's how it's done.

You spend more, and this fee goes up. It's not rocket science.

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Like everybody else, I calculate based on the price of the food but it doesn't mean that I agree with the concept. It's a few more bucks so no big deal to me. It means more to the servers than it does me.

ea1060 said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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You went to a completely different place than what he was saying.

Why should a $30 burger or a $100 steak entail such wildly different tips at the same restaurant?

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Thats like saying why should you pay $75 for a bottle of wine at a restaurant that costs $15 at the grocery store. It is what it is. If you don't like it, then stay home where you don't have to tip or pay an upcharge for the steak.

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That's an argument for profit margins, not tipping.

Aggie87 said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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Aggie87 said:

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Or you could change the entire system so everyone is paid a better wage than most food servers who have to rely on tips.

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Is base pay for service workers not way, way up across the board? Even McDonalds is paying well over minimum wage for food service workers. We're in a red hot labor market. These aren't the days in Reservoir Dogs where the little ladies at the diner are earning below minimum wage.

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I don't think so for workers who are primarily paid by tipping.

Maybe for fast food workers and the like, who are paid minimum wage (at the least).

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I checked what Chili's is paying waitstaff in Colorado since state law requires they have to list salary with job postings. Waiters start earning $12.85, which is higher than the state minimum wage of $10.63 for tipped employees.

Hard to know how much, if any, to tip when you do not know if the server (and cook) wash their hands or not, picked their noses, had open sores, had a runny nose, sneezed, and coughed on your food. One or more likely happened.

combat wombat said:

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In the US, tipping is expected. Servers are paid less than minimum wage. It is expected that tips will cover the gap between what they are actually paid and at least minimum wage. There are very few situations in which I would tip nothing.
sk me if I wanted to tip 20% or 25% would really turn me off. It's very presumptuous of them to do so.

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So what, nobody is saying don't tip, but with the cost of food rising unskilled waitstaff are getting paid more than alot of college grads and are able to stuff alot of cash in their pockets tax free. They shouldn't have an entitled attitude.

Wage depends on the state. Lib areas like CA and Seattle they're getting a decent wage by law. In Texas, full service restaurants are paying 2.13. And they need to tip out to bussers/bartenders and often get docked to help cover credit card fees.

I like the tipping system for the most part. Its nice to have some power as a customer to reward or punish the level of service. No problems on paying comparatively more at nice restaurants, as these are not jobs anyone off the street can get. They're expected to be knowledgeable on the menu and have more service skills, if not than its not a nice restaurant worth visiting. They typically don't just hire servers who are teenagers/college age or have only worked at Chili's. Plus those are likely career jobs and not part-time. I do think having to tip on a bottle of wine or something is annoying, but whatever.

Tipping at counter-service or fast food is awful though, and I hate that they even ask. iPad checkouts, you know that prompt is coming.

1939 said:

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combat wombat said:

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In the US, tipping is expected. Servers are paid less than minimum wage. It is expected that tips will cover the gap between what they are actually paid and at least minimum wage. There are very few situations in which I would tip nothing.
sk me if I wanted to tip 20% or 25% would really turn me off. It's very presumptuous of them to do so.

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So what, nobody is saying don't tip, but with the cost of food rising unskilled waitstaff are getting paid more than alot of college grads and are able to stuff alot of cash in their pockets tax free. They shouldn't have an entitled attitude.

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Most waiters arent getting tax free tips since very few people pay/tip in cash these days at restaurants.

SJEAg said:

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No problems on paying comparatively more at nice restaurants, as these are not jobs anyone off the street can get. They're expected to be knowledgeable on the menu and have more service skills, if not than its not a nice restaurant worth visiting. They typically don't just hire servers who are teenagers/college age or have only worked at Chili's. Plus those are likely career jobs and not part-time. I do think having to tip on a bottle of wine or something is annoying, but whatever.

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This is what I was trying to convey.. but apparently some people (cough cough FIDO cough) think as long as you can carry a plate a food without dropping it, then you are no better than anyone else who can do the same thing, they are all interchangeable, and they only deserve about $5 to do the aforementioned task regardless of cost of food

RealTalk said:

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713nervy said:

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My niece must've lied to me then. Okay. I'll revise my statement.

I don't have friends who don't understand that servers ONLY get paid $2.13/hour + tips. Don't want to tip? Get your food to go.

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Your niece is a stripper.

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Different kind of tips.

Ryan the Temp said:

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combat wombat said:

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In the US, tipping is expected. Servers are paid less than minimum wage. It is expected that tips will cover the gap between what they are actually paid and at least minimum wage. There are very few situations in which I would tip nothing.
sk me if I wanted to tip 20% or 25% would really turn me off. It's very presumptuous of them to do so.

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Even though the law requires the employer to pay them the difference if tips plus cash wage ($2.13/hr) are less than minimum wage, employers simply don't ever make up the difference and the gov't doesn't enforce it. Most people in food service can't afford to hire a lawyer to sue for that $1/hr they got cheated out of.

People can feel whatever way they want to about minimum wage, but I think cash wage needs to be abolished.

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this was in the 90s when minimum was 5.15, but as a waiter, my employer said to just report that i got ~$3 an hour in tips. if i legitimately didn't get it, don't screw yourself, but don't create an extra headache or taxes for either of us.

I see alot of people getting upset with others because " they don't tip enough"

Then I scroll through social media and see waiters and waitress making videos about averaging $40-45 an hour on tips

Did FIDO mention how much the restaurant is forced to pay in taxes and social security for their employees?

Aggie said:

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I see alot of people getting upset with others because " they don't tip enough"

Then I scroll through social media and see waiters and waitress making videos about averaging $40-45 an hour on tips

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lol what?

The one that annoys me is the cashiers at certain coffee shops that get pissed off when you don't add a tip for buying a bag of beans. I wonder if they tip the cashiers at HEB or Walmart.

62strat said:

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SJEAg said:

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No problems on paying comparatively more at nice restaurants, as these are not jobs anyone off the street can get. They're expected to be knowledgeable on the menu and have more service skills, if not than its not a nice restaurant worth visiting. They typically don't just hire servers who are teenagers/college age or have only worked at Chili's. Plus those are likely career jobs and not part-time. I do think having to tip on a bottle of wine or something is annoying, but whatever.

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This is what I was trying to convey.. but apparently some people (cough cough FIDO cough) think as long as you can carry a plate a food without dropping it, then you are no better than anyone else who can do the same thing, they are all interchangeable, and they only deserve about $5 to do the aforementioned task regardless of cost of food

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No, people made an entirely different argument by trying to compare casual restaurants to high-end ones.

Obviously you are going to pay more tip at a high end restaurant since the bill will be way higher.

But let's say at the SAME restaurant, you and your SO order either --

A) two burgers and cocktails for a total bill of $100...
OR
B) two steaks and a nice bottle of wine for a total $300...

Suddenly that waiter is expecting a $75 tip instead of $25. Three times the tip for the exact same amount of work. (Except maybe knowing how to properly pour a wine.)

Is that really a justified expectation by that waiter, that the tip should be 3X higher? Would it be poor form for that couple to leave a $40 tip, or is that seen as cheap simply because it's not over 20%?

713nervy said:

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Aggie said:

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I see alot of people getting upset with others because " they don't tip enough"

Then I scroll through social media and see waiters and waitress making videos about averaging $40-45 an hour on tips

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lol what?

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What is lol about that.

Lets say a waiter averages 4 tables an hour at $80 a table which is pretty low. $80 x 4 x 18% = $57.60 an hour

Jack Boyett said:

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My daughter worked at a coffee shop this summer. The pay was higher and she only kept cash tips. All the ipad tips went to the coffee shop. If you use a card you don't know where your money is going.

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This, places like Chipotle, Torchy's or other counter service restaurants take that tip you leave at the register. The servers don't see it.

maroon barchetta said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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One time I was at a bar in Brooklyn and they had $1 PBRs that night. Went up to the bar and asked for 4 PBRs, and he handed me four cans. Took him all of ten seconds. I handed him $5 and started to walk away. The guy had the gall to stop me and gave me $1 back, angrily saying I clearly needed that dollar more than he did.

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He got a 25% tip for ten seconds of work and was upset.

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NM

agracer said:

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Jack Boyett said:

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My daughter worked at a coffee shop this summer. The pay was higher and she only kept cash tips. All the ipad tips went to the coffee shop. If you use a card you don't know where your money is going.

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This, places like Chipotle, Torchy's or other counter service restaurants take that tip you leave at the register. The servers don't see it.

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Why should they? All they're doing is walking food to your table. Not like they're refilling your drink. Hell, you're usually expected to dispose of your own trash. Tipping 20% there (or at all, really) is as dumb as tipping 20% at the chinese buffet or Luby's. Those places will at least refill your drink every once in a while.

et98 said:

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ea1060 said:

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Aggie87 said:

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Or you could change the entire system so everyone is paid a better wage than most food servers who have to rely on tips.

Like they do in Europe - build the full wage of the employees into the cost of the meal, and be done with it. Typically the customer may round up to the next Euro or maybe 2-3, but that's it. No expectation of 20-25-30% on top of the cost of the meal.

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Most waiters wouldn't want this because they make more in tips than whatever "living wage" a restaurant could afford to pay them.

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Agreed.

The only people whining about "living wages" are people who were never waiters.

And everyone suggesting that we raise prices on the menu instead of tipping because you don't like being asked to tip 18% are not thinking this through. Essentially, you are suggesting that want to be FORCED to tip instead of choosing to. And yes, tipping is a choice regardless of what the little computer screen says. You can always decline or type in a smaller number.

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Yes, you could call it forced tipping, but if you are paying a business that in turn pays their sales people commission, you could also call that forced tipping.

The raised price also takes care of the stupid practice of servers having to distribute (or not distribute) their tips to various other people like bus boys, hostess, kitchen staff. I don't think it's an accident that I've had servers not ring me up for a few drinks, as I've rewarded those servers with a bigger tip.

Pay a server a flat hourly rate + commission on all their sales. Now there is a guaranteed incentive pay for the servers to upsell on appetizers, a better steak, a dessert and actually ring up all the drinks. They might get a higher tip, but this thread is a good example that some customers might not see it that way. And it removes the dread a server has of dealing with stingy tippers. Why set up a system where the server doesn't want to work a shift or type of people based on their characteristics?

1939 said:

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713nervy said:

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Aggie said:

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I see alot of people getting upset with others because " they don't tip enough"

Then I scroll through social media and see waiters and waitress making videos about averaging $40-45 an hour on tips

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lol what?

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What is lol about that.

Lets say a waiter averages 4 tables an hour at $80 a table which is pretty low. $80 x 4 x 18% = $57.60 an hour

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You are forgetting that the lunch/dinner rush doesn't last very long, and a lot of tables stay longer than an hour for dinner. Not to mention not every table's tab will be $80, and not everyone will tip 18-20%. Also, waiters typically come in an hour before their shift to set up, and stay an hour or two after to clean up and do side work. That hypothetical $57.60/hour turns into more like $20-25/hour when its all said and done, which is still not bad considering its waiting tables.

In short, most waiters aren't making $57.60/hour.

combat wombat said:

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lotsofhp said:

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713nervy said:

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hoosier-daddy said:

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I bet your kids go behind you and tip more. That's what we do with my cash paying dad.

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This is what I do with family like the OP.

I originally said family and friends, but I don't have friends that don't understand that servers are ONLY paid in tips and don't make any money from the restaurant anymore. Don't want to tip? Get your food to go.

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Is this true? I always understood there was a serves wage that they make but it their comp was primarily tips. The restaurants literally don't pay them at all now? How did they work that deal?

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I'm a CPA and I have clients that are restaurants. They do NOT work for only tips. In Texas the minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13. This is because tips are expected to get them to the minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. If their tips don't get them to $7.25 per hour, the employer is required to make up the difference. The >25% tip recommendations are being put there by the employers. They sure as heck don't want to bridge the gap.

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I'd say part of the problem is that $2.13 hasn't changed since I waited tables in 1996. Not sure how long it was at that rate before then, but no change in 27 years is insane enough.

BEaggie08 said:

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combat wombat said:

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lotsofhp said:

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713nervy said:

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hoosier-daddy said:

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I bet your kids go behind you and tip more. That's what we do with my cash paying dad.

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This is what I do with family like the OP.

I originally said family and friends, but I don't have friends that don't understand that servers are ONLY paid in tips and don't make any money from the restaurant anymore. Don't want to tip? Get your food to go.

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Is this true? I always understood there was a serves wage that they make but it their comp was primarily tips. The restaurants literally don't pay them at all now? How did they work that deal?

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I'm a CPA and I have clients that are restaurants. They do NOT work for only tips. In Texas the minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13. This is because tips are expected to get them to the minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. If their tips don't get them to $7.25 per hour, the employer is required to make up the difference. The >25% tip recommendations are being put there by the employers. They sure as heck don't want to bridge the gap.

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I'd say part of the problem is that $2.13 hasn't changed since I waited tables in 1996. Not sure how long it was at that rate before then, but no change in 27 years is insane enough.

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WE HAVE A WOKE LIBTARD HERE, PEOPLE!

Slicer97 said:

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agracer said:

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Jack Boyett said:

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My daughter worked at a coffee shop this summer. The pay was higher and she only kept cash tips. All the ipad tips went to the coffee shop. If you use a card you don't know where your money is going.

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This, places like Chipotle, Torchy's or other counter service restaurants take that tip you leave at the register. The servers don't see it.

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Why should they? All they're doing is walking food to your table. Not like they're refilling your drink. Hell, you're usually expected to dispose of your own trash. Tipping 20% there (or at all, really) is as dumb as tipping 20% at the chinese buffet or Luby's. Those places will at least refill your drink every once in a while.

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My point was simply that folks think that tip at the register is helping the staff. It's not. It's just giving the owners extra money.

Also, I didn't say I give 20%. But more than once a server has refilled my drink, brought extra chips and removed our baskets when done. If they do that, I hand them some cash on the way out.

FAT SEXY said:

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Do y'all tip Sonic carhops?

I always feel awkward at Sonic because it seems they are expecting a tip.

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If they show a little T&/or A.

Some servers show up early and stay after.

Some do not.

You might have waited tables 30 years ago where the servers came in early or stayed late to do "side work" like rolling silverware, but an hour on each of the shift is rare and an hour even on one end of the shift is even more rare

They are tipping out the bussers and bar backs for that stuff.

1939 said:

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713nervy said:

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Aggie said:

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I see alot of people getting upset with others because " they don't tip enough"

Then I scroll through social media and see waiters and waitress making videos about averaging $40-45 an hour on tips

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lol what?

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What is lol about that.

Lets say a waiter averages 4 tables an hour at $80 a table which is pretty low. $80 x 4 x 18% = $57.60 an hour

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except that's probably only friday and sat night.

What about the other 12 shifts?

My wife worked at outback in college, and she said a m/t/w evening, regularly, she might see only 2 tables = $20-$30.
She put up with it long enough to where eventually she had rank and could choose her schedule, which she chose fr/sat night, where she would see up to maybe 10 tables = a few hundred bucks.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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62strat said:

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SJEAg said:

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No problems on paying comparatively more at nice restaurants, as these are not jobs anyone off the street can get. They're expected to be knowledgeable on the menu and have more service skills, if not than its not a nice restaurant worth visiting. They typically don't just hire servers who are teenagers/college age or have only worked at Chili's. Plus those are likely career jobs and not part-time. I do think having to tip on a bottle of wine or something is annoying, but whatever.

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This is what I was trying to convey.. but apparently some people (cough cough FIDO cough) think as long as you can carry a plate a food without dropping it, then you are no better than anyone else who can do the same thing, they are all interchangeable, and they only deserve about $5 to do the aforementioned task regardless of cost of food

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No, people made an entirely different argument by trying to compare casual restaurants to high-end ones.

Obviously you are going to pay more tip at a high end restaurant since the bill will be way higher.

But let's say at the SAME restaurant, you and your SO order either --

A) two burgers and cocktails for a total bill of $100...
OR
B) two steaks and a nice bottle of wine for a total $300...

Suddenly that waiter is expecting a $75 tip instead of $25. Three times the tip for the exact same amount of work. (Except maybe knowing how to properly pour a wine.)

Is that really a justified expectation by that waiter, that the tip should be 3X higher? Would it be poor form for that couple to leave a $40 tip, or is that seen as cheap simply because it's not over 20%?

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yes it's poor form. Just like any other % based fee, or 'resort fee', or parking to the event, or a sales tax, if you can't afford or are complaining about that portion of it, then you probably spent more than you should have.

Your exception is precisely why you are likely in the wrong to not tip on that $$$ bottle of wine. A place selling a $300 bottle is very likely to have a person/waiter who is knowledgeable, be able to answer wine questions, and can recommend food/wine parings. Let alone, know how to present the bottle, and pour it.

The college kid working at chili's doesn't have a clue how any of that works.

When I worked at Carrabba's about 20 years ago, I averaged about 500 dollars for about 35 hours a week. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I actually got a pay check as the taxes on tips was more than what the restaurant payed me. Servers aren't making $50 dollars / hour over the coarse of an entire week. I made 800 on a Mother's Day weekend one year, which is the only time I've approached that.

Bruce Almighty said:

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When I worked at Carrabba's about 20 years ago, I averaged about 500 dollars for about 35 hours a week. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I actually got a pay check as the taxes on tips was more than what the restaurant payed me. Servers aren't making $50 dollars / hour over the coarse of an entire week. I made 800 on a Mother's Day weekend one year, which is the only time I've approached that.

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Not that I agree with who you are arguing against.. but the $50 figure, I can only assume, is today, not 20 years ago.

Call that $30/hr 20 years ago. So double your $15.

Know Your Enemy said:

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WE HAVE A WOKE LIBTARD HERE, PEOPLE!

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Love you, mean it

713nervy said:

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Know Your Enemy said:

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WE HAVE A WOKE LIBTARD HERE, PEOPLE!

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Love you, mean it

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How YOU doin'?