Aggie87 said:

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Or you could change the entire system so everyone is paid a better wage than most food servers who have to rely on tips.

Like they do in Europe - build the full wage of the employees into the cost of the meal, and be done with it. Typically the customer may round up to the next Euro or maybe 2-3, but that's it. No expectation of 20-25-30% on top of the cost of the meal.

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You know how to start the change? Don't go to restaurants that are too based. If people stop going, they'll go out of business. If you keep going, you're just perpetuating the system you hate.

Aggie87 said:

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Or you could change the entire system so everyone is paid a better wage than most food servers who have to rely on tips.

Like they do in Europe - build the full wage of the employees into the cost of the meal, and be done with it. Typically the customer may round up to the next Euro or maybe 2-3, but that's it. No expectation of 20-25-30% on top of the cost of the meal.

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The tip system is kind of messed up and there's a reason we don't use it for most other customer service reps.

It's not the same as working on commission. Imagine a system in sales that the customer would significantly increase your tip if you failed to ring up product, but gave it to the customer anyway, and then your support system (cooks) may or may not process of getting food/product to the server based on how "friendly" the server/cook relationship is. Finally, the sales person is expected to "tip" all the other support staff throughout the process.

It really should be changed.

Although I typically pay the actual bill with a card, I do my best to tip in cash.

The credit card company takes a percentage of the overall charge, and I don't want part of my tip going to VISA, I want it all to go to the waiter.

There's also no way to avoid reporting tips on the credit card to the IRS. And once again, I want the entire tip going to the waiter. If they want to report it...fine. It's their money. But I'm not going to force them to, because the IRS can suck it.

Sounds like socialism in here.

Fully support higher menu pricing and elimination of the "tip." Better for all parties if you eliminate potential fraud/deceit.

et98 said:

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Although I typically pay the actual bill with a card, I do my best to tip in cash.

The credit card company takes a percentage of the overall charge, and I don't want part of my tip going to VISA, I want it all to go to the waiter.

There's also no way to avoid reporting tips on the credit card to the IRS. And once again, I want the entire tip going to the waiter. If they want to report it...fine. It's their money. But I'm not going to force them to, because the IRS can suck it.

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It's been 3+ decades since I worked in the restaurant industry but yes if tips are on a card, then it gets reported. The $2.13/hr ends up going toward taxes so the weekly check is near 0. No server worth a damn depends on the $2.13 for income.

Things may have changed but we never got dinged for a CC transaction fee on CC tips.

The biggest ripoff was tip pool. We had to pay up to $16 for a dinner shift, (don't recall lunch $10 maybe?) into tip pool that went toward bussers and barbacks. That was a total screw job.

L said:

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The whole tipping on percentage of the bill also imo is the absolute stupidest thing imaginable.
You want me to tip more $ because I may have ordered a more expensive menu item.. Nevermind you did the exact same work had I ordered a cheaper option. Where is the logic in that?
I'll tip on job performance.

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I'll relate it to something else.
I work for a general contractor in commercial construction.

We have a 5% fee. So if the building costs say $10m, we are getting $500k.

Well, costs have doubled since early 2020.. So that same building 3 years ago is now $20m, and we now get $1m.

But it's the same amount of work for us; the PM and superintendent.

Are you saying we shouldn't get that extra money? That our fee should be just 2.5% instead?

Keep paying cash and you'll get jugged one of these days.

62strat said:

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L said:

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The whole tipping on percentage of the bill also imo is the absolute stupidest thing imaginable.
You want me to tip more $ because I may have ordered a more expensive menu item.. Nevermind you did the exact same work had I ordered a cheaper option. Where is the logic in that?
I'll tip on job performance.

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I'll relate it to something else.
I work for a general contractor in commercial construction.

We have a 5% fee. So if the building costs say $10m, we are getting $500k.

Well, costs have doubled since early 2020.. So that same building 3 years ago is now $20m, and we now get $1m.

But it's the same amount of work for us; the PM and superintendent.

Are you saying we shouldn't get that extra money? That our fee should be just 2.5% instead?

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You're arguing inflation vs value, not the same thing

I just hate having to judge another human being on their performance as a server. It's subjective and inconsistent between customers. It's also dehumanizing to judge another person.

Southlake said:

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I just hate having to judge another human being on their performance as a server. It's subjective and inconsistent between customers. It's also dehumanizing to judge another person.

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Some people like it.

G.I.Bro said:

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62strat said:

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L said:

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The whole tipping on percentage of the bill also imo is the absolute stupidest thing imaginable.
You want me to tip more $ because I may have ordered a more expensive menu item.. Nevermind you did the exact same work had I ordered a cheaper option. Where is the logic in that?
I'll tip on job performance.

---

I'll relate it to something else.
I work for a general contractor in commercial construction.

We have a 5% fee. So if the building costs say $10m, we are getting $500k.

Well, costs have doubled since early 2020.. So that same building 3 years ago is now $20m, and we now get $1m.

But it's the same amount of work for us; the PM and superintendent.

Are you saying we shouldn't get that extra money? That our fee should be just 2.5% instead?

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You're arguing inflation vs value, not the same thing

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ok, so instead of developer using base cost materials, they splurge and put high dollar stuff at the entrances and fixtures, resulting in building going up 30%. So we somehow just calculate our fee on some theoretical lower cost?

Point being, if customer gets a steak instead of a wrap you pay tip on the cost of the steak, because what else would you base it on?

Went to McAlistars the other day and gave an 20% tip at the counter when I ordered. Took a seat and waited 25 minutes for my cold sandwich to be delivered. I'm done with restaurants that do pre-tipping.

I rarely tip for counter orders. Last time was in CS last May when the kid graduated. We went to a new place and had numerous questions. Counter server handled them well and helped us make appropriate choices.

You want to test an operation? Tell the server or counter server you are first time customers and ask for suggestions.

The problem is service has degraded to entitlement presence. I don't tip for presence. I tip well for service.

No wonder China and India are taking over the world. Americans have become so stupid in their self-righteousness.

Every idiot in America tries to show off by paying the biggest tip to other idiots who are too stupid to get a real job.

Keep it up, morons.

Aggie87 said:

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Or you could change the entire system so everyone is paid a better wage than most food servers who have to rely on tips.

Like they do in Europe - build the full wage of the employees into the cost of the meal, and be done with it. Typically the customer may round up to the next Euro or maybe 2-3, but that's it. No expectation of 20-25-30% on top of the cost of the meal.

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This is a good idea. Just increase prices so that there is no tip. I am okay with that. At least there is no guilt tripping.
And if restaurants jack up too much, they lose business and go out of business.

We claim to be a capitalist society but then we beg to socialist tips. There ain't no free lunch, doofuses.

I have absolutely no problem hitting other on those machines and typing 10% if the service sucked it $0 at places like subway.

This all seemed to get worse during the pandemic with everyone moving cash less payments for awhile

Tipping needs to go. It's archaic and dumb and based on deference more than it is service

My daughter worked at a coffee shop this summer. The pay was higher and she only kept cash tips. All the ipad tips went to the coffee shop. If you use a card you don't know where your money is going.

Unless there is a roach in my meal, I do 20%.

This topic has never come up before

Sure it wasn't on her paycheck, maybe split among the employees? I'm thinking she could have reported them to the TWC.

That's apparently a really common practice. That and the "service charge" line item. Doesn't go to server, goes to establishment. Ever since the airlines came up with the "fuel surcharge" to add to your airfare, everyone else seems to want to glom on to charge extra for what you're already buying instead of just raising prices. Salad joint that I go to every now and again downtown just did that. Stuck a sign in the window that said something like, "sorry. Had to raise prices. Inputs to salad cost more, this isn't a charity, and we'd rather just shot you straight instead of going with shrinkflation or nickel and dining you for every last add-on that should just be included."

FOX ran a story the other morning saying that with inflation, servers need a higher percentage tip than 15%. Maybe it's just me, but in theory shouldn't the higher menu prices lift that tip accordingly?

62strat said:

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L said:

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The whole tipping on percentage of the bill also imo is the absolute stupidest thing imaginable.
You want me to tip more $ because I may have ordered a more expensive menu item.. Nevermind you did the exact same work had I ordered a cheaper option. Where is the logic in that?
I'll tip on job performance.

---

I'll relate it to something else.
I work for a general contractor in commercial construction.

We have a 5% fee. So if the building costs say $10m, we are getting $500k.

Well, costs have doubled since early 2020.. So that same building 3 years ago is now $20m, and we now get $1m.

But it's the same amount of work for us; the PM and superintendent.

Are you saying we shouldn't get that extra money? That our fee should be just 2.5% instead?

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This is not the same thing.

It's also bull**** as y'all markup your subs costs across the board, and bake in extra costs into your general conditions.

Regardless, I think the point he's trying to make is that service fees - like tips - exist across many industries.

[Continue being disrespectful to other posters and take a break -- Staff]

Okay, then how come when I order a pizza the "service fee" to have it delivered is the same regardless of where I live in their delivery area, yet the tip to the driver fluctuates depending on if I order a medium 1 topping or 29 large supremes?

Aggie87 said:

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Or you could change the entire system so everyone is paid a better wage than most food servers who have to rely on tips.

Like they do in Europe - build the full wage of the employees into the cost of the meal, and be done with it. Typically the customer may round up to the next Euro or maybe 2-3, but that's it. No expectation of 20-25-30% on top of the cost of the meal.

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Most waiters wouldn't want this because they make more in tips than whatever "living wage" a restaurant could afford to pay them.

I waited tables in my youth for a spell. There were nights when I had cougars in my section that would tip really well, or if a large party got set in your section, you had to bust your tail but you could get some really good tips if there was a policy of 18% added to parties of ___ or more.

The wage the restaurant chooses doesn't reward hard work in that case.

Or being hot. I knew a gorgeous server who had some men come in with an expense account and tipped her $100 for a table of three that didn't order all that much. She was just gorgeous and they felt like rewarding her for having good genes.

One of her make co-workers was ticked. He said "you aren't any better of a server than the rest of us, you're just pretty!"

She made out like a bandit some nights. She knew what she was going.

713nervy said:

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Don't want to tip? Get your food to go.

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Want to make the equivalent of whatever 25% of the bill comes to? Don't be a waiter.

62strat said:

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L said:

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The whole tipping on percentage of the bill also imo is the absolute stupidest thing imaginable.
You want me to tip more $ because I may have ordered a more expensive menu item.. Nevermind you did the exact same work had I ordered a cheaper option. Where is the logic in that?
I'll tip on job performance.

---

I'll relate it to something else.
I work for a general contractor in commercial construction.

We have a 5% fee. So if the building costs say $10m, we are getting $500k.

Well, costs have doubled since early 2020.. So that same building 3 years ago is now $20m, and we now get $1m.

But it's the same amount of work for us; the PM and superintendent.

Are you saying we shouldn't get that extra money? That our fee should be just 2.5% instead?

---

It's not just the amount of work, it's the amount of risk. The difference between a 10M project and a 20M project might not be anything to you, but it is to the guy in charge. There's a justification in being compensated for that.

ea1060 said:

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Aggie87 said:

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Or you could change the entire system so everyone is paid a better wage than most food servers who have to rely on tips.

Like they do in Europe - build the full wage of the employees into the cost of the meal, and be done with it. Typically the customer may round up to the next Euro or maybe 2-3, but that's it. No expectation of 20-25-30% on top of the cost of the meal.

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Most waiters wouldn't want this because they make more in tips than whatever "living wage" a restaurant could afford to pay them.

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Agreed.

The only people whining about "living wages" are people who were never waiters.

And everyone suggesting that we raise prices on the menu instead of tipping because you don't like being asked to tip 18% are not thinking this through. Essentially, you are suggesting that want to be FORCED to tip instead of choosing to. And yes, tipping is a choice regardless of what the little computer screen says. You can always decline or type in a smaller number.

et98 said:

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ea1060 said:

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Aggie87 said:

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Or you could change the entire system so everyone is paid a better wage than most food servers who have to rely on tips.

Like they do in Europe - build the full wage of the employees into the cost of the meal, and be done with it. Typically the customer may round up to the next Euro or maybe 2-3, but that's it. No expectation of 20-25-30% on top of the cost of the meal.

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Most waiters wouldn't want this because they make more in tips than whatever "living wage" a restaurant could afford to pay them.

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Agreed.

The only people whining about "living wages" are people who were never waiters.

And everyone suggesting that we raise prices on the menu instead of tipping because you don't like being asked to tip 18% are not thinking this through. Essentially, you are suggesting that want to be FORCED to tip instead of choosing to. And yes, tipping is a choice regardless of what the little computer screen says. You can always decline or type in a smaller number.

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Yep! When I used to wait tables full-time I was making around $50kyear, and the restaurant I worked at wasn't super fancy or anything. A restaurant would have to pay the hourly wage equivalent of $25/hour to equal that, and no restaurant could ever afford to do that. They would go out of business.

There are some waiters out there making great money.

maroon barchetta said:

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I waited tables in my youth for a spell. There were nights when I had cougars in my section that would tip really well, or if a large party got set in your section, you had to bust your tail but you could get some really good tips if there was a policy of 18% added to parties of ___ or more.

The wage the restaurant chooses doesn't reward hard work in that case.

Or being hot. I knew a gorgeous server who had some men come in with an expense account and tipped her $100 for a table of three that didn't order all that much. She was just gorgeous and they felt like rewarding her for having good genes.

One of her make co-workers was ticked. He said "you aren't any better of a server than the rest of us, you're just pretty!"

She made out like a bandit some nights. She knew what she was going.

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Agreed! I used to have this super gay rich regular that would come in every weekend and tip me $300 for like a round of drinks. Im not gay, but I always wanted him in my section lol.