Im positive they still negotiate. They always want to haggle on how much lube they get to use if any.

In this market, you'll have no choice but to pay the premium for the undercoating.

B-1 83 said:

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aggie_wes said:

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Not really. If they have any in stock, they are selling within a week or two even with dealer add-ons and market adjustments.

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I was afraid of that. I just hope cash talks.

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They want you to finance. Cash won't talk much at all.

Bought my wife a new car two months ago from a good friend and didn't get a discount. Did get the hookup on the extra stuff though.

The deal was not having to pay a markup. Things are crazy out there right now.

I was told there would be no math, but someone will have to explain to me how this works. A 50k vehicle at sticker is cheaper for financing and me paying it off the next week than them getting their money up front.

It would seem the jokes would be on them.

B-1 83 said:

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I was told there would be no math, but someone will have to explain to me how this works. A 50k vehicle at sticker bs cheaper for financing, me paying it off the next week and them making more money?
It would seem the jokes would be on them.

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Your loan and it's terms (interest rate and length) is an asset for the dealership/financing company. They'll sell it off almost immediately. You pay it off after a week, congratulations. The dealership and financing absolutely don't care. Hope this helps man.

Forgive me. I'm an old. The last vehicle I financed was 25+ years ago, and the 2 years of payments went to "Ford Motor Company Finance".

B-1 83 said:

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Forgive me. I'm an old. The last vehicle I financed was 25+ years ago, and the 2 years of payments went to "Ford Motor Company Finance".

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still works the same for the most part. Ford dealership has incentives to provide loans for ford motor finance (or whatever they are called). These incentives can get them to lower the cash price for you. Ford finance gets an attractive loan because you let them charge you a higher interest rate because you plan to pay it off anyway. Ford finance takes that attractive loan (amount, high interest rate, your low risk) and sells it off to another larger bank or finance company. All the profits are in the churn. That's business man.

C@LAg said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Doctor Rosenrosen said:

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Claude! said:

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B-1 83 said:

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aggie_wes said:

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Not really. If they have any in stock, they are selling within a week or two even with dealer add-ons and market adjustments.

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I was afraid of that. I just hope cash talks.

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They'd probably rather you finance.

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Why people always think this "cash on the barrel" **** still holds today? It's not the Great Depression,

The. Dealership. Does. Not. Care. Where. You. Get. The. Money. In fact, they would love to loan it to you!!

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Are you saying the dealership will sell me the vehicle cheaper, after going through the financing paperwork, only to have me pay it off in one month?

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many financing deals have penalties in place if you pay off your loan early. so that is an extra cost.

* yes typically see these for lower credit score buyers and whatnot, but some dealerships still use these.

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That hasn't been true for several decades. If someone tells you there is an early payment penalty then walkout.

Micah97 said:

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We need a new vehicle, but don't want to buy in this market. We are going to make it stretch until the end of the year. If the market has not stabilized by the end of the year, we are going to lease until it does. I hate the idea of leasing, but as much as overpaying for a vehicle.

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You're going to pay more for the lease as well.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Claude! said:

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B-1 83 said:

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aggie_wes said:

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Not really. If they have any in stock, they are selling within a week or two even with dealer add-ons and market adjustments.

---

I was afraid of that. I just hope cash talks.

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They'd probably rather you finance.

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the dealers are almost all internally financed now.

they prefer you finance through them instead of paying cash because they make an additional 30% on the car when you do.

a small mom and pop used car dealership will like cash. but that's about it.

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How do you figure that?

At 4.5% for 48 months on a $25k note that's $2,400 in interest or less than 10%.

Yeah that's exactly right. I did something similar but changing banks.

The dealership offered like 6.5% but a better price. The day I got my first statement I refinanced with RBFCU at 1.95%. only cost me $150.

If I had brought them a check with pre financing from RBFCU they would have jacked the sale price up since that's essentially cash to them.

agracer said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Claude! said:

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B-1 83 said:

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aggie_wes said:

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Not really. If they have any in stock, they are selling within a week or two even with dealer add-ons and market adjustments.

---

I was afraid of that. I just hope cash talks.

---

They'd probably rather you finance.

---

the dealers are almost all internally financed now.

they prefer you finance through them instead of paying cash because they make an additional 30% on the car when you do.

a small mom and pop used car dealership will like cash. but that's about it.

---

How do you figure that?

At 4.5% for 48 months on a $25k note that's $2,400 in interest or less than 10%.

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Now do 6-7 years at $40k. Plus all kickbacks and fees they get on top of that.

Doctor Rosenrosen said:

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B-1 83 said:

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I was told there would be no math, but someone will have to explain to me how this works. A 50k vehicle at sticker bs cheaper for financing, me paying it off the next week and them making more money?
It would seem the jokes would be on them.

---

Your loan and it's terms (interest rate and length) is an asset for the dealership/financing company. They'll sell it off almost immediately. You pay it off after a week, congratulations. The dealership and financing absolutely don't care. Hope this helps man.

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Do they care what % you finance in order to get the better deal?

B-1 83 said:

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I know supplies are/were short, and the pricing was tight for a while.

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Try again in Q3 of 2023. Today's prices are MSRP + Non Negotiable Dealer Add-Ons or the ever disgusting "Market Adjustment" which has some dealerships pricing their cars up to $10K over MSRP. Used to be one could get a good deal well below MSRP but not today.

97 said:

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B-1 83 said:

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I know supplies are/were short, and the pricing was tight for a while.

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Try again in Q3 of 2023. Today's prices are MSRP + Non Negotiable Dealer Add-Ons or the ever disgusting "Market Adjustment" which has some dealerships pricing their cars up to $10K over MSRP. Used to be one could get a good deal well below MSRP but not today.

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Yep. They had a $2700 add on that did not appear on the sticker. I was a bit surprised at their trade in offer, also. When I can show them an advertised price for an identical vehicle for TRIPLE the price they were offering me, I'll sell it myself.

I'm also weighing inflation and falling markets.

harge57 said:

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agracer said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Claude! said:

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B-1 83 said:

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aggie_wes said:

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Not really. If they have any in stock, they are selling within a week or two even with dealer add-ons and market adjustments.

---

I was afraid of that. I just hope cash talks.

---

They'd probably rather you finance.

---

the dealers are almost all internally financed now.

they prefer you finance through them instead of paying cash because they make an additional 30% on the car when you do.

a small mom and pop used car dealership will like cash. but that's about it.

---

How do you figure that?

At 4.5% for 48 months on a $25k note that's $2,400 in interest or less than 10%.

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Now do 6-7 years at $40k. Plus all kickbacks and fees they get on top of that.

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Yeah....most people are not carrying a 4 year note.

its 6-7 years which makes it easier for them to upsell you because each upsell only increases the price in a miniscule way. so i am including upsold "features and services" in that 30%

tack on financing fees as well.

and then the purchaser will most likely trade it in at year 4 or 5 once they no longer owe more than the car is worth.

On a car loan, is the interest for the entire loan period already built into the payment, or does it accrue over time? In other words, do you actually save any money by paying it off earlier, or are you paying the same total loan+interest amount either way?

WILDMAN95 said:

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On a car loan, is the interest for the entire loan period already built into the payment, or does it accrue over time? In other words, do you actually save any money by paying it off earlier, or are you paying the same total loan+interest amount either way?

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The first one. The second one is loan-sharking and it's against the law.

You can order a car today for 60k and when it comes in months later they'll tell you that car is now a 70k car and you can buy it or kick rocks so they can sell it to the next guy.

Thisguy1 said:

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You can order a car today for 60k and when it comes in months later they'll tell you that car is now a 70k car and you can buy it or kick rocks so they can sell it to the next guy.

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If you have a good relationship with the dealer they'll sell it to you for your agreed upon price

AgsMyDude said:

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Thisguy1 said:

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You can order a car today for 60k and when it comes in months later they'll tell you that car is now a 70k car and you can buy it or kick rocks so they can sell it to the next guy.

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If you have a good relationship with the dealer they'll sell it to you for your agreed upon price

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This. I just bought a new car and the dealer honored the price we agreed to 40-days before it showed up on there lot. No additional dealer options, no finance chargers. Price + Dealer Fee - Trade In = Total Price.

And their "dealer fee" is always there (in fact every dealer has a fee and I saw between $299 and $699 depending on dealer) and none of them will negotiate this fee, at least not in 21/22.

So talk about ridiculous. I talked to a Ford dealer in Grapevine a couple of days ago inquiring about a 22 Ford Maverick they supposedly had on their lot as with any other one i have inquired about it was a customer order that the customer just hadn't picked up yet (if it was a customer order why is it on the site unless the customer changed their mind). Anyway the guy said I have a preowned Hybrid 22 Maverick for sale if you are interested, with 45 miles on it....obliviously not really "pre owned". So I asked "how much" and his quote was $46,300! On a not top of the line Lariat model which even will all the added options MSRP is around 33,000, this was an XLT model that with everything added is around 28-30K. Obviously who in their right mind would pay ~$13k over MSRP on a vehicle that will be worth around $15K in 2 years. I know someone will fall for it but that is insane. I can likely find a nicer vehicle than the Maverick for 46K. Affording it isn't the issue, being upside down on it for likely the majority of the loan is. He did say "the only way you will get one closer to MSRP is to Order one" (which you can't do right now).

The aforementioned truck: 22 Maverick

You will be able to find a nicer vehicle for that price.

At the end of 2023.

Maybe.

Luckily right now a new Maverick for me is a want and not a need, just like it as an affordable (for now ish. I understand a dealer marking it up a couple 1000s but not 13K.) Hybrid truck that I can wait to see if the car market resets, otherwise I'll just hang on to what I have.

Aaron4885 said:

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Luckily right now a new Maverick for me is a want and not a need, just like it as an affordable (for now ish. I understand a dealer marking it up a couple 1000s but not 13K.) Hybrid truck that I can wait to see if the car market resets, otherwise I'll just hang on to what I have.

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I agree.

I would have been in the market 6 months ago if the market wasn't the current dumpster fire it is.

For now I will hold onto my older vehicle and not regret it at all.

YellAgs said:

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Not if you want a decent car.

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We just ordered a car in March that should hopefully be here by early June and the only negotiations to be had were really on the trade in value for the old car. I couldn't believe I was able to get $9k on a 2013 Honda Civic with almost 150k miles on it but still that still is not as much as you used to be able to talk them down. Were it not for our circumstances I'd wait it out to see if prices come down but our family went from just the wife and I, to adding two children a couple of months ago to the household along with the possibility of adding another in July. The wife's Civic and my single cab Ram 1500 just wouldn't work. On the bright side, though I'm sure I overpaid, it will be exactly what we were wanting

I could have sworn that we had an auto forum of some sorts, but I don't remember.

Yes they are trying to see how much over MSRP they can get.

How exactly do you know it'll be worth around $15K in 2 years?

Unless you put 200K between now and then I'd bet a ton of money it's worth more than 15 in 2 years.

agracer said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Claude! said:

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B-1 83 said:

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aggie_wes said:

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Not really. If they have any in stock, they are selling within a week or two even with dealer add-ons and market adjustments.

---

I was afraid of that. I just hope cash talks.

---

They'd probably rather you finance.

---

the dealers are almost all internally financed now.

they prefer you finance through them instead of paying cash because they make an additional 30% on the car when you do.

a small mom and pop used car dealership will like cash. but that's about it.

---

How do you figure that?

At 4.5% for 48 months on a $25k note that's $2,400 in interest or less than 10%.

---

A $25k note is not $25k profit. Their margin in that was likely 2-3k, so a $2,400 bump is pretty significant.

C@LAg said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Doctor Rosenrosen said:

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Claude! said:

---

B-1 83 said:

---

aggie_wes said:

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Not really. If they have any in stock, they are selling within a week or two even with dealer add-ons and market adjustments.

---

I was afraid of that. I just hope cash talks.

---

They'd probably rather you finance.

---

Why people always think this "cash on the barrel" **** still holds today? It's not the Great Depression,

The. Dealership. Does. Not. Care. Where. You. Get. The. Money. In fact, they would love to loan it to you!!

---

Are you saying the dealership will sell me the vehicle cheaper, after going through the financing paperwork, only to have me pay it off in one month?

---

many financing deals have penalties in place if you pay off your loan early. so that is an extra cost.

* yes typically see these for lower credit score buyers and whatnot, but some dealerships still use these.

---

I am pretty sure this is illegal in Texas.

I love threads like this. I did F&I for a dealership and we hated cash buyers… they were always minis (meaning the dealership only paid a small fee to the salesperson) and no money to be made in finance. Dealers have quotas they need to hit with banks. Sending over a bunch of prime A+ loans to a bank means they'll allow you to send over a few crappy loans in the mix… meaning easier sales for the dealership, leading to bonuses from the manufacturer. The dealer will make money off of you, no matter how much wheeling and dealing you think you do.

The special finance deals were always the money makers. People with bad credit always bought all the products F&I offered, which is where the bulk of the money is made. F&I can also bump up your interest rate and that money goes directly to the dealership. Your rate and the buy rate are not necessarily the same.

I once a the deal done by promising to send homemade fudge before the first payment was made. Good ol' Santander always came through. Once I bought my house, I got out of the car business. I couldn't stomach it anymore.

GunRangeGal said:

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I love threads like this. I did F&I for a dealership and we hated cash buyers… they were always minis (meaning the dealership only paid a small fee to the salesperson) and no money to be made in finance. Dealers have quotas they need to hit with banks. Sending over a bunch of prime A+ loans to a bank means they'll allow you to send over a few crappy loans in the mix… meaning easier sales for the dealership, leading to bonuses from the manufacturer. The dealer will make money off of you, no matter how much wheeling and dealing you think you do.

The special finance deals were always the money makers. People with bad credit always bought all the products F&I offered, which is where the bulk of the money is made. F&I can also bump up your interest rate and that money goes directly to the dealership. Your rate and the buy rate are not necessarily the same.

I once a the deal done by promising to send homemade fudge before the first payment was made. Good ol' Santander always came through. Once I bought my house, I got out of the car business. I couldn't stomach it anymore.

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One of the key rules to the auto industry.

"Everyone gets a good deal at the dealership."

When has anyone said "yeah I got a new car but they bent me over and went in dry"?

We all get ripped off but it is funny watching some of you put your pecker in a vice to save $500.

SF2004 said:

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GunRangeGal said:

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I love threads like this. I did F&I for a dealership and we hated cash buyers… they were always minis (meaning the dealership only paid a small fee to the salesperson) and no money to be made in finance. Dealers have quotas they need to hit with banks. Sending over a bunch of prime A+ loans to a bank means they'll allow you to send over a few crappy loans in the mix… meaning easier sales for the dealership, leading to bonuses from the manufacturer. The dealer will make money off of you, no matter how much wheeling and dealing you think you do.

The special finance deals were always the money makers. People with bad credit always bought all the products F&I offered, which is where the bulk of the money is made. F&I can also bump up your interest rate and that money goes directly to the dealership. Your rate and the buy rate are not necessarily the same.

I once a the deal done by promising to send homemade fudge before the first payment was made. Good ol' Santander always came through. Once I bought my house, I got out of the car business. I couldn't stomach it anymore.

---

One of the key rules to the auto industry.

"Everyone gets a good deal at the dealership."

When has anyone said "yeah I got a new car but they bent me over and went in dry"?

We all get ripped off but it is funny watching some of you put your pecker in a vice to save $500.

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Lol this is so true. Every person I've ever talked to felt like they were Donald Trump rolling out of that dealership with the deal of a lifetime thanks to their high intellect and elite negotiating skills.

I've been pretty vocal about taking it up the tail pipe for my wife's new van.