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I see my friends with their kids and I know that they have a kind of happiness that I will never experience. At the same time, I have a kind of freedom they will never experience. There are trade-offs to every big decision in life.

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I definitely agree that there are trade offs and that happiness, fulfillment, and purpose are all distinct experiences driven by factors unique to every individual. No matter what we choose, the intensity of those experiences fluctuates throughout life. Studies by Daniel Kahneman and others on this subject are really interesting, this article is a pretty good summary:

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/620576/

Bunch of bs on this thread.

And someone should take chicken up on the hide the pickle offer.

MonkeyKnifeFighter said:

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I'm on the other end. Late 30s, don't want kids, and have known that pretty much forever.

It causes massive family drama.

"We just want you to be happy!" No. They want me to be their idea of what they think should make me happy. It wouldn't.

My brother is more low-key upset about it, and pretty much every time I'm home it's the sales pitch of how great they are. Meanwhile from the outside I have a very clear view of how his 3 have pretty much tossed his marriage through a threshing machine and evaporated almost every bit of personality and joy that he used to have. They're objectively great kids... and they still do that.

I'm not as good of a man as my brother is, and if he's hanging by a thread then I would have been off the cliff far earlier.

In private my dad's given me the knowing nod, saying he gets it, and that I'm doing the right thing. Which is a hilarious double-condemnation about a) having me as a kid, and/or b) that he foresees how much of a disaster it would be if I did.

I'm waiting for Mom to go nuclear enough to where I drop the a-bomb of "well I got snipped X years ago, so tough luck", but I've never come close to playing that card. Itay break her.

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Happily married and don't want kids either.
Mom disapproves. Brother doesn't care. Dad doesn't care.

What extended family don't seem to understand is the choice isn't their's to make. Pretty incredible how forward family can be about this topic.

Wooahhhh said:

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Just thought I'd ask how prevalent this issue is with us olds. I have 3 adult children, oldest is married and doesn't want kids. I'm playing it cool, but damn.

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I could tell stories about this kind of guy. People are so selfish for their own self interest they can't let people live their lives and will still drop hints with guilt on them without even knowing it.

I'm 39 with one 5 year old. She'll probably be our only, but not for us not wanting more. I'm pushing 40 and my wife, although 5 years younger than me, has a number of minor health issues that make the thought of another pregnancy seem daunting. Becoming a dad again at 40 seems too late.

I never wanted kids before getting married and was standoffish with my wife for a little while but gave in. It was the best decision of my life. I don't regret it. It's a joy being a parent. However, it's a joy on net balance. You do have to make a lot of sacrifices. It's also been a great for my parents and in laws. They seem to enjoy being grandparents.

Cromagnum said:

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It's nice being able to do whatever the hell you want to do, at almost anytime. All the couples with kiddos are boatanchored and either have to settle for kid friendly activities or figure out ways to do limited things without the kid.

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And people wonder why their kids don't want "boat anchors". They grow up listening to this selfish tripe.

Solid troll

Ghost of Bizbee said:

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What extended family don't seem to understand is the choice isn't their's to make. Pretty incredible how forward family can be about this topic.

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Truth here. My family seems clueless that their comments, suggestions, prodding leads us to just avoid them.

If I were doing it over I would have 10 kids assuming the wife's uterus doesn't fall out along the way.

I like children - well for short visits anyway but the amount of time I wanted to have a child - exactly zero seconds. A big part of that is that I wanted to be a really excellent father and I obtained three graduate degrees and then did a lot of research and publishing and I figured I didn't want to be a part-time father.

wbt5845 said:

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Ghost of Bizbee said:

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What extended family don't seem to understand is the choice isn't their's to make. Pretty incredible how forward family can be about this topic.

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Truth here. My family seems clueless that their comments, suggestions, prodding leads us to just avoid them.

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Well we now know you come come by it honestly.

I don't really want kids. I may have them one day but I'm not rushing.

I'm very glad it's become more socially acceptable to be childless. The world has enough people already and having children has become more unaffordable than ever before. It's no wonder millennials are having the least kids in generations, and I think it's a good thing.

PearlJammin said:

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Cromagnum said:

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It's nice being able to do whatever the hell you want to do, at almost anytime. All the couples with kiddos are boatanchored and either have to settle for kid friendly activities or figure out ways to do limited things without the kid.

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And people wonder why their kids don't want "boat anchors". They grow up listening to this selfish tripe.

Solid troll

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My mom was a selfish ***** growing up who told me on many occasions she'd have been better off if I'd never been born and blamed all of her poor life choices on me.

I still decided to have kids. They're anchors, and acknowledging that isn't selfish, it's just reality. They take a lot of time, patience, responsibility, sacrifice, money, etc. You give up a lot of freedom as a parent, but it's worth it. It's not selfish unless you don't put in the time, don't have the patience, shirk the responsibility, refuse to sacrifice, and put yourself above the kids you decided to have because what you want is more important than what they need. Knowing they're anchors and deciding to have them and raise them is about the most selfless thing you can do.

PA24 said:

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Also a man's sperm is healthiest before 30. Give the kid a fighting chance.

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Is that true?

Ghost of Bizbee said:

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PA24 said:

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Also a man's sperm is healthiest before 30. Give the kid a fighting chance.

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Is that true?

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Yes, it's been scientifically proven that if you have kids after 30 they will have small wieners.

THE_CHOSEN_ONE said:

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Ghost of Bizbee said:

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PA24 said:

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Also a man's sperm is healthiest before 30. Give the kid a fighting chance.

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Is that true?

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Yes, it's been scientifically proven that if you have kids after 30 they will have small wieners.

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Is this true for women with small breastuses too

agnerd said:

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If they don't want their house destroyed, commit to paying for a maid twice a week and a remodel once the kids hit high school.

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Kids aren't that bad on a house if you don't let them be.

Source: single parent of 3 and 5 year old

TXAGFAN

Yes it's ridiculously extreme nowadays but you don't have to give into that. Just a little of that existed back when. For example a big reveal party at 16 for the brand new car/ truck. Our kids never had that and I can tell you now that our kids work harder and are more successful than most of the 20 or 30 somethings their age. They gotta be a little hungry. It makes it easier on the parents and in the long run it turns out better for the kids. Just say no and mean it. Stick to it . They will survive... and More.

Yikes, I must be doing things wrong because my kids don't get any of that. No phones as a distraction, no iPad except for a while after dinner, no unlimited Netflix. I think they'll still come out ok. Some of those parents sound nuts.

Not faulting your decision, surrogacy is an enormous expense and at 42 there's no way I'd be thinking about kids either.

Was getting ready to post that; played that last night for my MIL, who is in for Christmas and a Homegoods addict. Told my wife the next video on the show is what she is getting for Christmas. (it was the d*ck in a box song)

The Fife said:

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agnerd said:

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If they don't want their house destroyed, commit to paying for a maid twice a week and a remodel once the kids hit high school.

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Kids aren't that bad on a house if you don't let them be.

Source: single parent of 3 and 5 year old

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You want your house destroyed? Dogs. Dogs destroy homes. Kids would have to be psychos to come close to the damage dogs can do.

Either that or cat piss, that'll ruin just about anything

TXAGFAN said:

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Some of you olds need to look around. Being a young adult in your 20's is NOT the same as it was 20 years ago, let alone 30-40 years ago. It's expensive and being a parent comes with this bizarre new level of investment our parents never thought twice about. Perfect multiple photo shoots a year, Pinterest theme birthday parties, must do education targets like fancy preschools and dual language elementary. It looks exhausting.

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It's actually interesting you mention this. My older kid (pre-k) has some of the former instaTHOT-turned-pinterest-mommy types in his class. All the crap you described above. Maybe 25%.

I think that trend of the outward appearance of "everything is perfect; just look at my social media" is fading away in favor of "I want my child to enjoy their childhood; it doesn't have to look perfect." I realize it's a bit anecdotal but i say that because my 3 year Old's class has exactly one of those pinterest types and you can tell it's because the lady is a nutter that will turn into one of those lunatic cheerleading parents (or whatever).

When you dispense with that nonsense, it's a lot easier and a lot more fun.

The Fife said:

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Either that or cat piss, that'll ruin just about anything

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Yeah cat piss will make a home unsellable

Kids are the greatest gifts in life and are nowhere near boat anchors. You live as a family and do things together. News flash life is not about you and it isn't about them. It is about balance.

Kids are expensive only in medical and feeding terms and then what you allow them to have. My siblings and I had a creek and room to go. I bet combined we never had 1000 bucks worth of toys. You build things that you gathered. My kids don't have 1/4 stuff others do.

We go do their things and they go do ours. Skipping a generation and ending a line because you may not be able to get blitzed in Cabo seems pretty dumb. Now as for having kids have to grow up in a world lead by a complete group of dumb asses we know as our government I get. I love my kids and they have not been a time or financial burden on us. We share happiness together. Now would I have had kids had I known we would be chinas yes men possibly not.

All my kids say dad I want kids someday but a more Godless world every day is scary. I agree with them. Hope to have grandkids some day but may not. Isn't because of price or all about me time, but more about living in possibly the most corrupt society in recent memory. Thank you Soros.

And the skit about wrong ones breeding is pretty accurate. Go look at the number of kids running around the car on blocks house. The dumbest in my class outbred me.

keep talking out of your piehole ez. you tell stories all you want because that's all you know azzhole.

The Fife said:

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agnerd said:

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If they don't want their house destroyed, commit to paying for a maid twice a week and a remodel once the kids hit high school.

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Kids aren't that bad on a house if you don't let them be.

Source: single parent of 3 and 5 year old

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All I will say is this- you may think you don't want kids and that they are am anchor when you are in your 20's and 30's.

fair enough.

responsibility demands that you prioritize and once you have kids they and your marriage should be your top priorities. and that means u can't buy a plane ticket to Bali at the drop of a hat. isn't that awful?

life gets awfully cold and lonely when you're 65 and still doing the same **** you did when you were 30.


gets even colder when your 75 and half ur friends are dead, half can't remember where they are, and the other half can't climb a set of stairs without risking a hip.

i have known several people who died sans kids and they have always said it was the biggest mistake they ever made.

Unanimously.

i have known several people who had kids and they have always said it was the biggest mistake they ever made.

Unanimously.

When I was younger, I never wanted children. Now that I'm older, I still don't want children.

I either don't want any kids or I want to have a whole bunch one after the other, so that they are all close in age.
I'd prefer the latter, but we'll see how the next couple of years goes.

Kids are hard, it's true, but if you can stick it out with another person that complements you and wants the best for you for your own sake, I believe that you come out better for it on the other side of gutting it out through all that parenting entails. It builds character, as the trite saying goes. Whether that experience sounds more appealing than having more money and fewer commitments, I can't say for anyone other than myself.

I don't really understand the necessity of getting married if you don't want kids, or even if you do and aren't religious. At that point it seems like a legal contract applied to your personal feelings. As for the lifelong committed companionship and support, you can manage that without a signoff from the lady behind the counter at the county office, but you will have a harder time making off with half the stuff if the other party cheats on you.

THE_CHOSEN_ONE said:

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i have known several people who had kids and they have always said it was the biggest mistake they ever made.

Unanimously.

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There's something to say about the last three generations being the most selfish generations to ever exist on the planet.

To be a good parent, to be a good spouse you have to love someone else more than you love yourself.

It's no wonder that all these generations have pets instead of kids.

Kids take hard work.

You can kick a dog and it will still love you unconditionally.

If your friends think their kids are mistake them those kids are gonna need a ****ton of therapy.

Poor kids. No wondering society is ****ed.