ClickClack said:

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CharlieBrown17 said:

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We have different definitions of partial decapitation if they missed that and thought it was a heart attack

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The nurse that tended to her (and based on some other accounts of what happened) made it sound like the injuries were from getting sucked out and basically slammed against the fuselage going ~500 mph / the impact of the pressure diferential.

I really don't think a piece of the engine actually hit her. It sounds like there was a delay between the engine "explosion" and the window bursting out. If a piece of the engine had hit her, it would've been instantaneous. I think the debris critically damaged the window, and a few seconds later it deteriorated enough to completely break.

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But getting slammed against something doesn't cause blood to go everywhere. I didn't say she got hit from the actual explosion itself. Just that whatever cause the window to break caused damage. Allegedly, according to the comm dept at SWA. Though, I don't think that is a public story.

PrincessButtercup said:

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ClickClack said:

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CharlieBrown17 said:

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We have different definitions of partial decapitation if they missed that and thought it was a heart attack

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The nurse that tended to her (and based on some other accounts of what happened) made it sound like the injuries were from getting sucked out and basically slammed against the fuselage going ~500 mph / the impact of the pressure diferential.

I really don't think a piece of the engine actually hit her. It sounds like there was a delay between the engine "explosion" and the window bursting out. If a piece of the engine had hit her, it would've been instantaneous. I think the debris critically damaged the window, and a few seconds later it deteriorated enough to completely break.

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But getting slammed against something doesn't cause blood to go everywhere. I didn't say she got hit from the actual explosion itself. Just that whatever cause the window to break caused damage. Allegedly, according to the comm dept at SWA. Though, I don't think that is a public story.

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Yeah, I hear you. Just, even a VP at southwest might not have the full story or it could've been relayed somewhat wrong. The trauma to the head of getting sucked out of the plane and half your body out of it getting slammed against it would cause blood loss.

I'm just basing it on listening to several passenger accounts of what happened (mainly the nurse who tried to resuscitate her) but who knows. She specifically mentioned the trauma of getting sucked out and being outside the fuselage being the cause of her injuries.

PrincessButtercup said:

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ClickClack said:

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CharlieBrown17 said:

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We have different definitions of partial decapitation if they missed that and thought it was a heart attack

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The nurse that tended to her (and based on some other accounts of what happened) made it sound like the injuries were from getting sucked out and basically slammed against the fuselage going ~500 mph / the impact of the pressure diferential.

I really don't think a piece of the engine actually hit her. It sounds like there was a delay between the engine "explosion" and the window bursting out. If a piece of the engine had hit her, it would've been instantaneous. I think the debris critically damaged the window, and a few seconds later it deteriorated enough to completely break.

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But getting slammed against something doesn't cause blood to go everywhere. I didn't say she got hit from the actual explosion itself. Just that whatever cause the window to break caused damage. Allegedly, according to the comm dept at SWA. Though, I don't think that is a public story.

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honestly, being in the company you're probably more likely to hear tons of rumors going around.

So, a serious question:
Was this person wearing a lapbelt, and if not, do you think having it on may have prevented her from being blown through the window?

62strat said:

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PrincessButtercup said:

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ClickClack said:

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CharlieBrown17 said:

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We have different definitions of partial decapitation if they missed that and thought it was a heart attack

---

The nurse that tended to her (and based on some other accounts of what happened) made it sound like the injuries were from getting sucked out and basically slammed against the fuselage going ~500 mph / the impact of the pressure diferential.

I really don't think a piece of the engine actually hit her. It sounds like there was a delay between the engine "explosion" and the window bursting out. If a piece of the engine had hit her, it would've been instantaneous. I think the debris critically damaged the window, and a few seconds later it deteriorated enough to completely break.

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But getting slammed against something doesn't cause blood to go everywhere. I didn't say she got hit from the actual explosion itself. Just that whatever cause the window to break caused damage. Allegedly, according to the comm dept at SWA. Though, I don't think that is a public story.

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honestly, being in the company you're probably more likely to hear tons of rumors going around.

So, a serious question:
Was this person wearing a lapbelt, and if not, do you think having it on may have prevented her from being blown through the window?

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No, yes.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why is not wearing a lap belt required all the time anyway? Yeh you can get up and stretch and hit the head, but when you sit down, put on your belt. I always have mine on. Even some heavy turbulence can have you bouncing around.

Another passenger has stated that a passenger eventually stuck his back in the window for the duration of the flight. Yikes if that is true.

That woman is simply amazing. She can be my wing woman anytime.

ClickClack said:

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CharlieBrown17 said:

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We have different definitions of partial decapitation if they missed that and thought it was a heart attack

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The nurse that tended to her (and based on some other accounts of what happened) made it sound like the injuries were from getting sucked out and basically slammed against the fuselage going ~500 mph / the impact of the pressure diferential.

I really don't think a piece of the engine actually hit her. It sounds like there was a delay between the engine "explosion" and the window bursting out. If a piece of the engine had hit her, it would've been instantaneous. I think the debris critically damaged the window, and a few seconds later it deteriorated enough to completely break.

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Pax windows are crazy, stupid strong and to me it's hard to imagine one break without failing instantly. Given what they're made out of it seems like all or nothing unless whatever struck it just put a hell of a crack in it which would have basically blown out instantly. It's sort of an all or nothing thing.

Weird as it sounds, striking a window seems almost preferable to penetrating the barrel because assuming it's a larger object it could put a big, angled hole in there and as air escapes through it who knows whether skin or structure is going along with. A window disappearing is at least limited to that area.

62strat said:

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That's exactly what I was thinking. Why is not wearing a lap belt required all the time anyway? Yeh you can get up and stretch and hit the head, but when you sit down, put on your belt. I always have mine on. Even some heavy turbulence can have you bouncing around.

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Isn't that what they say every time you get on a plane. they do for me. They state if you are seated wear your seat-belt. The problem is how are they going to enforce it? you would just have morons videotaping a flight attendant forcing them to buckle up and everyone one would complain one way or the other. Basically they should state now " When you are seated, buckle up or get sucked out the window ( or have a huge head) "

Brennus said:

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62strat said:

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That's exactly what I was thinking. Why is not wearing a lap belt required all the time anyway? Yeh you can get up and stretch and hit the head, but when you sit down, put on your belt. I always have mine on. Even some heavy turbulence can have you bouncing around.

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Isn't that what they say every time you get on a plane. they do for me. They state if you are seated wear your seat-belt. The problem is how are they going to enforce it? you would just have morons videotaping a flight attendant forcing them to buckle up and everyone one would complain one way or the other. Basically they should state now " When you are seated, buckle up or get sucked out the window ( or have a huge head) "

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Would it break a ton of sheet if you had your belt on and you were pulled at that high velocity? Seems like that would be just as painful/do bad damage.

https://usat.ly/2qGHQ9X

SIAP but sounds like some Texans were hero's on the flight.

Pilot's husband is an Ag. Both great people.

Brennus said:

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62strat said:

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That's exactly what I was thinking. Why is not wearing a lap belt required all the time anyway? Yeh you can get up and stretch and hit the head, but when you sit down, put on your belt. I always have mine on. Even some heavy turbulence can have you bouncing around.

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Isn't that what they say every time you get on a plane. they do for me. They state if you are seated wear your seat-belt. The problem is how are they going to enforce it? you would just have morons videotaping a flight attendant forcing them to buckle up and everyone one would complain one way or the other. Basically they should state now " When you are seated, buckle up or get sucked out the window ( or have a huge head) "

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On any flight I'm ever on, they turn of the light that shows the seat belt once cruising and not in turbulence, indicating (to me) it's safe to take it off. Then it comes back on around descent time.

Agnzona said:

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I never take mine off. Clear air turbulence can happen at any time without any warning. In fact turbulence injuries are fairly common.

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Yeah I keep mine on mainly so I don't hit my head on the bulkhead if we hit an air pocket

Agnzona said:

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I never take mine off. Clear air turbulence can happen at any time without any warning. In fact turbulence injuries are fairly common.

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ditto. I figure if I'm sitting down anyways, why not have the belt buckled. I'll loosen it up some, but those seats are so uncomfortable for me anyways that keeping the belt buckled doesn't really affect me much.

I only take it off if I get up to go pee. That'd be just my luck that this would happen right as I'm getting up or sitting down in that 2 seconds it's unbuckled.

crosswalk said:

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62strat said:

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Brennus said:

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62strat said:

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That's exactly what I was thinking. Why is not wearing a lap belt required all the time anyway? Yeh you can get up and stretch and hit the head, but when you sit down, put on your belt. I always have mine on. Even some heavy turbulence can have you bouncing around.

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Isn't that what they say every time you get on a plane. they do for me. They state if you are seated wear your seat-belt. The problem is how are they going to enforce it? you would just have morons videotaping a flight attendant forcing them to buckle up and everyone one would complain one way or the other. Basically they should state now " When you are seated, buckle up or get sucked out the window ( or have a huge head) "

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On any flight I'm ever on, they turn of the light that shows the seat belt once cruising and not in turbulence, indicating (to me) it's safe to take it off. Then it comes back on around descent time.

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Those lights just let the passengers know if it's okay to get up to use the bathroom, etc. or not. It's always strongly suggested to wear your seatbelt when you're in your seat. Turbulence or a window getting blown out is not always predictable.

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You don't say?

ClickClack said:

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Agnzona said:

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I never take mine off. Clear air turbulence can happen at any time without any warning. In fact turbulence injuries are fairly common.

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Yeah I keep mine on mainly so I don't hit my head on the bulkhead if we hit an air pocket

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The air has pockets???

PrincessButtercup said:

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malenurse said:

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ClickClack said:

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Agnzona said:

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I never take mine off. Clear air turbulence can happen at any time without any warning. In fact turbulence injuries are fairly common.

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Yeah I keep mine on mainly so I don't hit my head on the bulkhead if we hit an air pocket

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The air has pockets???

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Yes. For snacks.

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Specifically, tater tots.

NTSB saying it appears there's metal fatigue on some compressor or fan blades of the failed engine. Compressor stall maybe causing a weakened blade to fail?

malenurse said:

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ClickClack said:

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Agnzona said:

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I never take mine off. Clear air turbulence can happen at any time without any warning. In fact turbulence injuries are fairly common.

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Yeah I keep mine on mainly so I don't hit my head on the bulkhead if we hit an air pocket

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The air has pockets???

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Yep. Especially in the Bermuda Triangle.

ursusguy said:

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Another passenger has stated that a passenger eventually stuck his back in the window for the duration of the flight. Yikes if that is true.

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Other than to block the noise...

There is no more pressurization of the cabin...

Maximus_Meridius said:

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NTSB saying it appears there's metal fatigue on some compressor or fan blades of the failed engine. Compressor stall maybe causing a weakened blade to fail?

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oldschool87 said:

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Maximus_Meridius said:

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NTSB saying it appears there's metal fatigue on some compressor or fan blades of the failed engine. Compressor stall maybe causing a weakened blade to fail?

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Or maybe it was bees

GAC06 said:

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oldschool87 said:

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Maximus_Meridius said:

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NTSB saying it appears there's metal fatigue on some compressor or fan blades of the failed engine. Compressor stall maybe causing a weakened blade to fail?

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Or maybe it was bees

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Help me understand, trying to not be that guy... How does a stall weaken the blades?

I would think, which means I don't know. That over time metal fatigue is obviously a possibility with anything, but especially with planes for obvious reasons. There could have been a bird strike 3 years ago, that accelerated that blades aging process. Who knows.

But just thinking out loud, how does a compressor stall hurt a fan blade?

I'd say that'd do some damage to internals that were already nearing end of life. But I'm not an aero engineer, nor do I work on aircraft engines. It's just a hobby. I'm sure one of our aero engineers will be along to correct me.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/19/603848638/faa-orders-inspections-of-engine-type-that-blew-apart-on-southwest-flight

Quote:

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National Transportation Safety Board Chairman Robert Sumwalt says the fatigue fracture that likely caused the engine on the Southwest plane to break apart would have been difficult to detect.

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The way I interpret it does not sound like compressor stall.

Pirate04 said:

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The way I interpret it does not sound like compressor stall.

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Judging from the inlet destruction I think a compressor stall and a huge burp out the front happened. The inlet, fan cowl, and t/r are designed for a fan blade out failure, and the resulting imbalance loads as the plane flies on. Some much greater force very likely destroyed the inlet, which then allowed the fan cowl to scoop air and leave the plane.

Aero95 said:

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Pirate04 said:

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The way I interpret it does not sound like compressor stall.

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Judging from the inlet destruction I think a compressor stall and a huge burp out the front happened. The inlet, fan cowl, and t/r are designed for a fan blade out failure, and the resulting imbalance loads as the plane flies on. Some much greater force very likely destroyed the inlet, which then allowed the fan cowl to scoop air and leave the plane.

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Can you point to a similar incident?

Or one where a compressor stall blew off the cowl and much of the nacelle, and exactly one fan blade?

Fatigue just mean there was a crack. Either high or low cycle. High cycle is vibration related (could be stall related...aero flow deprecation related). Low cycle is like being stressed during a big cycle like during takeoff. Most likely there was a flaw on the part, plus lots of low cycles, plus maybe some instability during the takeoff ramp up in power. Then the crack propagated and liberated the blade. When that thing lets loose it has lots of velocity to break stuff. Blades would typically would get sucked back but looks like it had some forward trajectory hence the loss of containment.