Sometimes I feel like an outcast because I *gasp* believe in traditional *gasp* gender roles. Woman on woman hate is why feminism is a load of *****

FOUR THIN INCHES said:

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Life has no beginning or end. We'll disappear into the void just as quickly as we appeared as if it never happened.

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You can go to void, I'm going to Texas.

PS - sorry for getting your girlfriend all riled up this morning. Hopefully it leads to some killer sex later.

LupinusTexensis said:

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OH yes all of those orphanage shortages!!! I hear about those all time with people lining up to adopt crack babies!!!! I'm sure you yourself have put your name on the waiting list and are asking for one with severe fetal alcohol syndrome since you're so committed to helping out these poor babies. If a loving family doesn't adopt those babies, the juvenile system will certainly take care of them.

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Everything you're talking about comes waaaaaay later in the process than the many deliberate decisions that are made by a woman to create that baby in the first place.

Abortion is, in the vast majority of cases, an effort to erase consequences of deliberate action. And that doesn't even begin to cover what rights a man, who is an equal partner in the decisions that lead to conception, has to determine the fate of his progeny.

LupinusTexensis said:

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Yes let's force people to bring in more unwanted kids!!! I hear those turn out GREAT.

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Much better to execute them as babies than see how they might turn out

Pre-crime punishment... The future is now.

Lungblood said:

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Pre-crime punishment... The future is now.

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I don't think abortion is necessarily a punishment. For many people, being forced into existence is worse than never existing. Not everyone gets to live a life worth living.

FOUR THIN INCHES said:

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Lungblood said:

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Pre-crime punishment... The future is now.

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I don't think abortion is necessarily a punishment. For many people, being forced into existence is worse than never existing. Not everyone gets to live a life worth living.

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So lives not worth living, as determined by... someone... should be exterminated? So someone who develops Palsy or a baby who is born with Downs or someone suffering brain damage should be executed?

LupinusTexensis said:

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OH yes all of those orphanage shortages!!! I hear about those all time with people lining up to adopt crack babies!!!! I'm sure you yourself have put your name on the waiting list and are asking for one with severe fetal alcohol syndrome since you're so committed to helping out these poor babies. If a loving family doesn't adopt those babies, the juvenile system will certainly take care of them.

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abortion is a complex issue.

It is amazing that in one vein abortion is legal but in another prostitution is not.

I think more than anything the right should try and reduce the number of abortions through education and support instead of attacking the establishment of abortion. And eliminate federal funding for abortions. It may be legal but the populous shouldn't pay for them.

FOUR THIN INCHES said:

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Lungblood said:

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Pre-crime punishment... The future is now.

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I don't think abortion is necessarily a punishment. For many people, being forced into existence is worse than never existing. Not everyone gets to live a life worth living.

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who are we to pick and choose who lives and dies? Being given the opportunity for life beats no choice at all.

I didn't say that. I just said that some lives are terrible and some people are forced to endure an existence they don't deserve and can't understand. Have you ever heard of babies getting raped and kids being abused throughout their childhoods? I wonder what kind of enjoyment they get out of life and what kinds of lives they go on to lead. What about those poor kids in Africa who are born to a malnourished mother with AIDS, get infected by parasites at a young age, then starve to death before they reach the ripe old age of five?

I don't have all of the answers and neither does anyone else. Abortion is an incredibly complex issue and both sides have some very valid arguments, but reasonable minds can come to differing conclusions about which is right and which is wrong.

Ragoo said:

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Being given the opportunity for life beats no choice at all.

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That's not always true

FOUR THIN INCHES said:

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I didn't say that. I just said that some lives are terrible and some people are forced to endure an existence they don't deserve and can't understand. Have you ever heard of babies getting raped and kids being abused throughout their childhoods? I wonder what kind of enjoyment they get out of life and what kinds of lives they go on to lead. What about those poor kids in Africa who are born to a malnourished mother with AIDS, get infected by parasites at a young age, then starve to death before they reach the ripe old age of five?

I don't have all of the answers and neither does anyone else. Abortion is an incredibly complex issue and both sides have some very valid arguments, but reasonable minds can come to differing conclusions about which is right and which is wrong.

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what do the sick perverted actions of someone towards a child have to do with abortion in the USA? What do the living conditions in Africa have to do with abortion in the USA?

We pick and choose who die all the time. War and capital punishment kill fully formed and cognizant humans, but heaven forbid we snuff out a forming mass of cells in a uterus.

I'm saying some people, abused children and starving Africans, are born into an existence they would have been better off never experiencing. You said life is always better than not living, which is not always true for everyone.

LupinusTexensis said:

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We pick and choose who die all the time. War and capital punishment kill fully formed and cognizant humans, but heaven forbid we snuff out a forming mass of cells in a uterus.

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I'm against capital punishment in all its forms and deplore war, though I recognize the reality of the need for the latter as a political option.

The problem with your argument is that it can be equally applied to a baby who was just born as easily as one that is about to be born. It's made more severe by the lack of gravity given to that decision. The pro-abortion narrative relies on the position that the potential human life is totally valueless and can be discarded without any remorse.

LupinusTexensis said:

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We pick and choose who die all the time. War and capital punishment kill fully formed and cognizant humans, but heaven forbid we snuff out a forming mass of cells in a uterus.

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death is an unfortunate effect of war. War is not something your choose but something is sometimes necessary for the bigger picture of society. Capital punishment is frankly the choice of the convicted. You cannot claim ignorance to the punishments for your crimes.

Neither of these are logical arguments justifying abortion.

george92 said:

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LupinusTexensis said:

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Yes let's force people to bring in more unwanted kids!!! I hear those turn out GREAT.

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If only there were some way to have a baby and someone else take the burden of raising it off of you. Oh never mind, get your club out and whack away!!!!! That will show those anti abortion people who's boss!!!!

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Those people are all adopting Chinese babies and Russian orphans that arent hooked on crack. Hth

FOUR THIN INCHES said:

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I'm saying some people, abused children and starving Africans, are born into an existence they would have been better off never experiencing. You said life is always better than not living, which is not always true for everyone.

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maybe, but you aren't the authority on their life. Just because you wouldn't choose it for yourself doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer what little life they have versus no life at all. This is evolving into a pretty abstract digression though.

So, Ragoo, how many crack babies will you be signing up to take in?

Pam Poovey said:

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So, Ragoo, how many crack babies will you be signing up to take in?

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what is your point with this post? Maybe you should go back and read all of my posts before you jump to conclusions.

Abortions are necessary for the greater good of society. Do you want over half a million more unwanted babies born in America every year? You can't be for preserving life in one arena and discount it in another. I'm just up front and callous in saying that I am ok with murderous nut jobs getting the needle, civilian and military casualties happening to further americas interests in war, and for unwanted babies to go unborn.

You aren't the authority on their life, either. You have no more of a right to force those people to exist than I do to relieve them the burden of existing. Maybe it's a decision we should leave to the person with that authority, the mother. God can sort out whether they made the right or wrong decision, we don't have the authority.

Ragoo said:

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Pam Poovey said:

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So, Ragoo, how many crack babies will you be signing up to take in?

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what is your point with this post? Maybe you should go back and read all of my posts before you jump to conclusions.

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She has a habit of not reading people's arguments and just going straight for an attack.

So, abortion legal in the cases of severe physical defect. What about purely optional abortions of convenience, which is the vast majority?

FOUR THIN INCHES said:

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You aren't the authority on their life, either. You have no more of a right to force those people to exist than I do to relieve them the burden of existing. Maybe it's a decision we should leave to the person with that authority, the mother. God can sort out whether they made the right or wrong decision, we don't have the authority.

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how am I forcing anyone into existence? There are only two people who did that. Once a sperm fertilizers an egg the female body works to ensure that life exists. For the most part, obviously miscarriage happens. You have to make a conscious decision to end the process that occurs naturally.

But your justification is rooted in their probable quality of life, which is poor justification.

LupinusTexensis said:

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Abortions are necessary for the greater good of society. Do you want over half a million more unwanted babies born in America every year? You can't be for preserving life in one arena and discount it in another. I'm just up front and callous in saying that I am ok with murderous nut jobs getting the needle, civilian and military casualties happening to further americas interests in war, and for unwanted babies to go unborn.

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The problem though is you're allowing women who made a decision to take part in an act that can have an unwanted consequence to have a get out of jail free card rather than requiring personal responsibly. Pregnancy doesn't just happen. If more women would close their legs or practice responsible methods like yourself, babies wouldn't be killed like they are.

Unborn women should have rights too.

LupinusTexensis said:

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Abortions are necessary for the greater good of society. Do you want over half a million more unwanted babies born in America every year? You can't be for preserving life in one arena and discount it in another. I'm just up front and callous in saying that I am ok with murderous nut jobs getting the needle, civilian and military casualties happening to further americas interests in war, and for unwanted babies to go unborn.

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you don't know with certainty if these babies would be crutch on society or cure cancer.

Comparing abortion to war and capital punishment is for people with weak reasoning skills.

Carry on.

Ahhh the old close your legs mandate. Yes. Super effective. And birth control never fails.

But if it does, you're stuck with the responsibility of raising another human that will go out into the world as a piece of **** because it wasn't wanted. I'm ok with that not happening.

Continue going through life with major unresolved conflict on how different lives are valued.

Rachel didn't want to get pregnant with Ross' child but she decided to keep it and loved it unconditionally.

LupinusTexensis said:

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Continue going through life with major unresolved conflict on how different lives are valued.

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what? Like the murderer in a state with known capital punishment laws who can avoid capital punishment by confessing to the crime yet decides to try and get off Scott free by going to trial? Golly gee, you are so right!!!

LupinusTexensis said:

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Ahhh the old close your legs mandate. Yes. Super effective. And birth control never fails.

But if it does, you're stuck with the responsibility of raising another human that will go out into the world as a piece of **** because it wasn't wanted. I'm ok with that not happening.

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Yeah it's age old because it's appropriate. If more women would realize their actions have consequences, we wouldn't have millions of dead babies. Wanna have sex without condoms or bc? Get your tubes tied. Don't punish your kid because you're irresponsible.

FOUR THIN INCHES said:

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Lungblood said:

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Pre-crime punishment... The future is now.

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I don't think abortion is necessarily a punishment. For many people, being forced into existence is worse than never existing. Not everyone gets to live a life worth living.

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Holy......you really believe that? It's hard to form an argument to combat that level of arrogant stupid. Although I would like to know since apparently you know that these people exist....who are they and how do you define a life not worth living?

Oh and how do you decide whether that life will be worth living before the child is even born? Do you think it's right to kill the baby if there's a 60% they don't have a life worth living? 50%? 70%? Or do you pull out your crystal ball?

Question do you believe we should do away with the death penalty? If so, why?

LupinusTexensis said:

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Ahhh the old close your legs mandate. Yes. Super effective. And birth control never fails.

But if it does, you're stuck with the responsibility of raising another human that will go out into the world as a piece of **** because it wasn't wanted. I'm ok with that not happening.

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Adoption. Heck. Look at everyone in America adopting from overseas. Put a stop to that. You adopt here in the state's first. Streamline the system and make it less expensive to adopt. Fix the system so that mothers needing to give up their children can. And that parents tat want to adopt can without having to spend tens of thousands of dollars and years navigating a needlessly bogged down system. I have three close friends that spent yyears trying to get a kid....it was their own personal version of bureaucratic hell.