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They are shooting to end the threat.

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That 14th bullet certainly did the trick. The other 13 were just practice I guess.

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While I know you are trolling, LEOs are not trained to fire one shot, wait and see what results, and then fire more/another shot to repeat the process. They are taught to continue firing until the threat is neutralized.

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Not trolling at all. Is there evidence that he wasn't neutralized after the 13th bullet hit him?

Evidently, they're also not trained in how to aim.

Bullets were missing pretty badly in the video. Like "I've never shot a gun at a target!" badly.

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They are shooting to end the threat.

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That 14th bullet certainly did the trick. The other 13 were just practice I guess.

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While I know you are trolling, LEOs are not trained to fire one shot, wait and see what results, and then fire more/another shot to repeat the process. They are taught to continue firing until the threat is neutralized.

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Not trolling at all. Is there evidence that he wasn't neutralized after the 13th bullet hit him?

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If one officer shot all 46 rounds and stuck 14 times, I'd see your point. With eight officers, it's not as cut and dry as to when the neutralizing shot was made. Crappy situation all around, but I understand why 46 rounds were fire from 8 officers. The fact that only 14 struck the intended target is cause for concern though.

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They are shooting to end the threat.

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That 14th bullet certainly did the trick. The other 13 were just practice I guess.

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While I know you are trolling, LEOs are not trained to fire one shot, wait and see what results, and then fire more/another shot to repeat the process. They are taught to continue firing until the threat is neutralized.

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Not trolling at all. Is there evidence that he wasn't neutralized after the 13th bullet hit him?

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If one officer shot all 46 rounds and stuck 14 times, I'd see your point. With eight officers, it's not as cut and dry as to when the neutralizing shot was made. Crappy situation all around, but I understand why 46 rounds were fire from 8 officers. The fact that only 14 struck the intended target is cause for concern though.

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I really don't understand how someone can watch that video and subjectively say that each of those officers were justified in shooting that man. The threat he posed was SO minimal, it just doesn't seem justified.

Wow. I actually hadn't even seen the video until just now. That was a straight up firing squad.

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They are shooting to end the threat.

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That 14th bullet certainly did the trick. The other 13 were just practice I guess.

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While I know you are trolling, LEOs are not trained to fire one shot, wait and see what results, and then fire more/another shot to repeat the process. They are taught to continue firing until the threat is neutralized.

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Not trolling at all. Is there evidence that he wasn't neutralized after the 13th bullet hit him?

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If one officer shot all 46 rounds and stuck 14 times, I'd see your point. With eight officers, it's not as cut and dry as to when the neutralizing shot was made. Crappy situation all around, but I understand why 46 rounds were fire from 8 officers. The fact that only 14 struck the intended target is cause for concern though.

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I really don't understand how someone can watch that video and subjectively say that each of those officers were justified in shooting that man. The threat he posed was SO minimal, it just doesn't seem justified.

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Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think they were justified. I think that they thought they were and I understand why so many rounds were fired. Two different concepts.

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They are shooting to end the threat.

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That 14th bullet certainly did the trick. The other 13 were just practice I guess.

---

While I know you are trolling, LEOs are not trained to fire one shot, wait and see what results, and then fire more/another shot to repeat the process. They are taught to continue firing until the threat is neutralized.

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Not trolling at all. Is there evidence that he wasn't neutralized after the 13th bullet hit him?

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If one officer shot all 46 rounds and stuck 14 times, I'd see your point. With eight officers, it's not as cut and dry as to when the neutralizing shot was made. Crappy situation all around, but I understand why 46 rounds were fire from 8 officers. The fact that only 14 struck the intended target is cause for concern though.

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I really don't understand how someone can watch that video and subjectively say that each of those officers were justified in shooting that man. The threat he posed was SO minimal, it just doesn't seem justified.

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Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think they were justified. I think that they thought they were and I understand why so many rounds were fired. Two different concepts.

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Fair point.

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They are shooting to end the threat.

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That 14th bullet certainly did the trick. The other 13 were just practice I guess.

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While I know you are trolling, LEOs are not trained to fire one shot, wait and see what results, and then fire more/another shot to repeat the process. They are taught to continue firing until the threat is neutralized.

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Not trolling at all. Is there evidence that he wasn't neutralized after the 13th bullet hit him?

---

If one officer shot all 46 rounds and stuck 14 times, I'd see your point. With eight officers, it's not as cut and dry as to when the neutralizing shot was made. Crappy situation all around, but I understand why 46 rounds were fire from 8 officers. The fact that only 14 struck the intended target is cause for concern though.

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I really don't understand how someone can watch that video and subjectively say that each of those officers were justified in shooting that man. The threat he posed was SO minimal, it just doesn't seem justified.

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He had an edged weapon, he was within 21 feet of the officers (distance most departments believe justifies deadly threat with an edge weapon) was assuming a tactical stance and started to move towards the officers. At what point does he become a threat?

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They are shooting to end the threat.

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That 14th bullet certainly did the trick. The other 13 were just practice I guess.

---

While I know you are trolling, LEOs are not trained to fire one shot, wait and see what results, and then fire more/another shot to repeat the process. They are taught to continue firing until the threat is neutralized.

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Not trolling at all. Is there evidence that he wasn't neutralized after the 13th bullet hit him?

---

If one officer shot all 46 rounds and stuck 14 times, I'd see your point. With eight officers, it's not as cut and dry as to when the neutralizing shot was made. Crappy situation all around, but I understand why 46 rounds were fire from 8 officers. The fact that only 14 struck the intended target is cause for concern though.

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I really don't understand how someone can watch that video and subjectively say that each of those officers were justified in shooting that man. The threat he posed was SO minimal, it just doesn't seem justified.

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He had an edged weapon, he was within 21 feet of the officers (distance most departments believe justifies deadly threat with an edge weapon) was assuming a tactical stance and started to move towards the officers. At what point does he become a threat?

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I certainly can't quote "departmental rules", but my personal believe is that someone doesn't become a threat until they can actually harm me or my family. That video to me clearly shows that he was no where near close enough to harm anyone. Not even the dog.

Those poor LEO's. I can't imagine the absolute terror they must have been feeling while in this situation.

Wow. Just watched the whole thing. Those guys deserve bullets themselves. He wasn't even moving towards them or anything.

***hole cops conducting firing squads in broad daylight. They should all be fired and charged but probably won't be.

Guy is surrounded by a K-9 unit and 8 guns with only a small knife in hand. A taser, pepper spray, baton, rubber bullets, or straight gang tackling would've been better options than to line up and fire almost 50 shots in a mall parking lot in the middle of the day in front a crowd. This is the protection and service we pay them for?

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Wow. Just watched the whole thing. Those guys deserve bullets themselves. He wasn't even moving towards them or anything.

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BUT HE WAS IN A TACTICAL STANCE!

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I certainly can't quote "departmental rules", but my personal believe is that someone doesn't become a threat until they can actually harm me or my family.

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Good to know you don't consider anyone a threat until you're already dead. Way to be proactive!!!

Not what I said, at all. But you already knew that.

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***hole cops conducting firing squads in broad daylight. They should all be fired and charged but probably won't be.

Guy is surrounded by a K-9 unit and 8 guns with only a small knife in hand. A taser, pepper spray, baton, rubber bullets, or straight gang tackling would've been better options than to line up and fire almost 50 shots in a mall parking lot in the middle of the day in front a crowd. This is the protection and service we pay them for?

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They have no obligation to protect or serve. Legally, they can watch you get mugged, not intervene, and there's nothing you can do about it.

^
^
Which is why there is so little respect for law enforcement anymore. The corruption, incompetence, and abuse of power runs deep and a lot of people feel they are not here to help them. They are feared and hated more than respected these days and it won't improve as long as cops keep treating America as a war zone. The job has turned into more of a fundraising institution with guns. Officers with the brain capacity more in line with dealing out fines and tickets than actually preventing crime are given weapons and the authority to use them with a lot of leeway on what is considered a justified shooting.

Cops are around when you don't want to see them and are nowhere to be found or incompetent when you need them. Any time I've had something stolen, cops have been less than useless.

And for those saying there are plenty of decent cops out there who are smart, capable, and do their jobs. I say those fine individuals are unfortunately drowned out by the dozens of unjustified shootings every year, the regular tales of police abuses of power, and those same supposedly 'good' cops who cover for their idiotic counterparts with a paid vacation when they do something insane like kill a citizen in broad daylight. It's shameful. You'd have to go to a 3rd world country to find an example where cops shoot people in the streets with the same frequency as America does.

And to go full on hyperbole. I'll say the silent majority of police officers refusing to demand badges to be stripped and officers like these to be prosecuted are just as bad as the silent Muslim majority who claim they are not all extremists and terrorists yet don't lift a finger or voice to shout down and vilify the violence of extremists. If cops don't want to be lumped together with the turds, get them out of the punch bowl or STFU and swallow the brew you've fermented.

Since I am not allowed to create threads like this, I applaud those who do. This type of discussion should not only be allowed on this forum, but encouraged.

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^
^
Which is why there is so little respect for law enforcement anymore. The corruption, incompetence, and abuse of power runs deep and a lot of people feel they are not here to help them. They are feared and hated more than respected these days and it won't improve as long as cops keep treating America as a war zone. The job has turned into more of a fundraising institution with guns. Officers with the brain capacity more in line with dealing out fines and tickets than actually preventing crime are given weapons and the authority to use them with a lot of leeway on what is considered a justified shooting.

Cops are around when you don't want to see them and are nowhere to be found or incompetent when you need them. Any time I've had something stolen, cops have been less than useless.

And for those saying there are plenty of decent cops out there who are smart, capable, and do their jobs. I say those fine individuals are unfortunately drowned out by the dozens of unjustified shootings every year, the regular tales of police abuses of power, and those same supposedly 'good' cops who cover for their idiotic counterparts with a paid vacation when they do something insane like kill a citizen in broad daylight. It's shameful. You'd have to go to a 3rd world country to find an example where cops shoot people in the streets with the same frequency as America does.

And to go full on hyperbole. I'll say the silent majority of police officers refusing to demand badges to be stripped and officers like these to be prosecuted are just as bad as the silent Muslim majority who claim they are not all extremists and terrorists yet don't lift a finger or voice to shout down and vilify the violence of extremists. If cops don't want to be lumped together with the turds, get them out of the punch bowl or STFU and swallow the brew you've fermented.

---

f'n A, dude, f'n A

A real bro, cosmicbandito, a real bro.

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If you make sure your schizophrenic son takes his meds regularly, the odds of him having a negative experience with the police decrease exponentially. I will never understand why the number of rounds fired means anything. They are shooting to end the threat. Follow the orders or the police and you will likely never get shot. Pull a knife on them, and you probably will.

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Unfortunately, it's not always that easy. You can't just 'make' a grown up take their medication if they are flat out saying they won't, or they pretend that they have taken it and haven't.

Having known someone who suffered from this illness, I understand why people don't want to take their medication...the side effects and how it makes you feel can be truly awful.

It's sad that some folks have gotten to the point where it's almost accepted that if someone doesn't follow police orders, the police can murder you. Does a penknife welding man surrounded by trained and armed officers along with police dogs warrant them shooting him to death? Are there no better ways to find a resolution when there was no ones life in immediate and imminent danger?

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^
^
Which is why there is so little respect for law enforcement anymore. The corruption, incompetence, and abuse of power runs deep and a lot of people feel they are not here to help them. They are feared and hated more than respected these days and it won't improve as long as cops keep treating America as a war zone. The job has turned into more of a fundraising institution with guns. Officers with the brain capacity more in line with dealing out fines and tickets than actually preventing crime are given weapons and the authority to use them with a lot of leeway on what is considered a justified shooting.

Cops are around when you don't want to see them and are nowhere to be found or incompetent when you need them. Any time I've had something stolen, cops have been less than useless.

And for those saying there are plenty of decent cops out there who are smart, capable, and do their jobs. I say those fine individuals are unfortunately drowned out by the dozens of unjustified shootings every year, the regular tales of police abuses of power, and those same supposedly 'good' cops who cover for their idiotic counterparts with a paid vacation when they do something insane like kill a citizen in broad daylight. It's shameful. You'd have to go to a 3rd world country to find an example where cops shoot people in the streets with the same frequency as America does.

And to go full on hyperbole. I'll say the silent majority of police officers refusing to demand badges to be stripped and officers like these to be prosecuted are just as bad as the silent Muslim majority who claim they are not all extremists and terrorists yet don't lift a finger or voice to shout down and vilify the violence of extremists. If cops don't want to be lumped together with the turds, get them out of the punch bowl or STFU and swallow the brew you've fermented.

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Taking the easy way out and stereotyping will always be the fail safe for the weak and lazy.

I HATE COPS BECAUSE A COP WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TELL ME I WAS WRONG AND HELD ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR MY ACTIONS.




I ALSO HATE WOMEN WHO DON'T PUT OUT.

Read what Frank Serpico thinks about today's law enforcement.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160.html#.VFN5cYdtFWh

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Taking the easy way out and stereotyping will always be the fail safe for the weak and lazy.

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It's not stereotyping when it's true. Police departments in general do not take responsibility for their actions, and police unions will defend their members' negligent actions to the death, no mater how heinous.

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If you make sure your schizophrenic son takes his meds regularly, the odds of him having a negative experience with the police decrease exponentially. I will never understand why the number of rounds fired means anything. They are shooting to end the threat. Follow the orders or the police and you will likely never get shot. Pull a knife on them, and you probably will.

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Unfortunately, it's not always that easy. You can't just 'make' a grown up take their medication if they are flat out saying they won't, or they pretend that they have taken it and haven't.

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Yes you can. Going through the courts and establishing the need for a guardian ad litem can accomplish this though a judicial order.

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If you make sure your schizophrenic son takes his meds regularly, the odds of him having a negative experience with the police decrease exponentially. I will never understand why the number of rounds fired means anything. They are shooting to end the threat. Follow the orders or the police and you will likely never get shot. Pull a knife on them, and you probably will.

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Unfortunately, it's not always that easy. You can't just 'make' a grown up take their medication if they are flat out saying they won't, or they pretend that they have taken it and haven't.

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Yes you can. Going through the courts and establishing the need for a guardian ad litem can accomplish this though a judicial order.

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Firstly, someone can have schizophrenia and still be lucid for much of the time. So say you can actually get that court order, in the real world when a grown person is standing in front of you and says, "no, I'm not taking my medication today" what exactly do you do? Who do you call if you are poor? If they are not delusional at that point in time, do you then call the police and would they get involved? You can't get someone sectioned if they are not acting crazy at the time and endangering themselves, can you? Do you try to physically force them? Could this guys mother do that? How does this work in reality? Having seen this close up, I can guarantee you that it doesn't work in the way you think and this is from experience in the UK where there is socialized medicine and I suspect more 'care in the community' and mental heath support.

How does this work here in the USA if you are poor?

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If you make sure your schizophrenic son takes his meds regularly, the odds of him having a negative experience with the police decrease exponentially. I will never understand why the number of rounds fired means anything. They are shooting to end the threat. Follow the orders or the police and you will likely never get shot. Pull a knife on them, and you probably will.

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Unfortunately, it's not always that easy. You can't just 'make' a grown up take their medication if they are flat out saying they won't, or they pretend that they have taken it and haven't.

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Yes you can. Going through the courts and establishing the need for a guardian ad litem can accomplish this though a judicial order.

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Firstly, someone can have schizophrenia and still be lucid for much of the time. So say you can actually get that court order, in the real world when a grown person is standing in front of you and says, "no, I'm not taking my medication today" what exactly do you do? Who do you call if you are poor? If they are not delusional at that point in time, do you then call the police and would they get involved? You can't get someone sectioned if they are not acting crazy at the time and endangering themselves, can you? Do you try to physically force them? Could this guys mother do that? How does this work in reality? Having seen this close up, I can guarantee you that it doesn't work in the way you think and this is from experience in the UK where there is socialized medicine and I suspect more 'care in the community' and mental heath support.

How does this work here in the USA if you are poor?

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Your blanket statement was that you "can't". You can if you know what you're doing.

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If you make sure your schizophrenic son takes his meds regularly, the odds of him having a negative experience with the police decrease exponentially. I will never understand why the number of rounds fired means anything. They are shooting to end the threat. Follow the orders or the police and you will likely never get shot. Pull a knife on them, and you probably will.

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Unfortunately, it's not always that easy. You can't just 'make' a grown up take their medication if they are flat out saying they won't, or they pretend that they have taken it and haven't.

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Yes you can. Going through the courts and establishing the need for a guardian ad litem can accomplish this though a judicial order.

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So what happens if they're found to not take it in this case?

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If you make sure your schizophrenic son takes his meds regularly, the odds of him having a negative experience with the police decrease exponentially. I will never understand why the number of rounds fired means anything. They are shooting to end the threat. Follow the orders or the police and you will likely never get shot. Pull a knife on them, and you probably will.

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Unfortunately, it's not always that easy. You can't just 'make' a grown up take their medication if they are flat out saying they won't, or they pretend that they have taken it and haven't.

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Yes you can. Going through the courts and establishing the need for a guardian ad litem can accomplish this though a judicial order.

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So what happens if they're found to not take it in this case?

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I don't know as I'm not familiar with Michigan's mental health and ad litem laws. Every state is different.

What about just in general? In TX or FL or wherever.

I'm just curious, not arguing one way or the other.

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Taking the easy way out and stereotyping will always be the fail safe for the weak and lazy.

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It's not stereotyping when it's true. Police departments in general do not take responsibility for their actions, and police unions will defend their members' negligent actions to the death, no mater how heinous.

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Those damn unions! How dare they not demand that the officer is slashed by the knife before he starts shooting?!!! It's almost like they expect the officer to have the same rights as a normal citizen. Unconscionable!!!!

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Taking the easy way out and stereotyping will always be the fail safe for the weak and lazy.

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It's not stereotyping when it's true. Police departments in general do not take responsibility for their actions, and police unions will defend their members' negligent actions to the death, no mater how heinous.

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Those damn unions! How dare they not demand that the officer is slashed by the knife before he starts shooting?!!! It's almost like they expect the officer to have the same rights as a normal citizen. Unconscionable!!!!

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I'm not talking about just this. There are countless instances of cops needlessly engaging in violence or brutality against citizens and getting the protection of their union or department all over the US.