retarded GPA requirements by employers

2,352 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 23 yr ago by
skrangeo
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so I just saw the post about the EE job, and it said 3.5 GPA minimum.

I have a petroleum eng degree and Exxon was a company like that. When they were at the career fair and didn't see the 3.5+ GPA, your resume went into the trash can ASAP.

IMO, the companies that set standards like that only shoot themselves in the foot. There are tons of students out there with circumstances that don't necessarily allow a 3.5+ GPA. Many students work long hours at multiple jobs to finance their education, and unfortunately their grades sometimes suffer. However, that work ethic says much more than a cold, stiff, GPA number. Or (like my case), my freshman year pulled my GPA so far down that a 3.5 would have been nearly impossible (just FYI, I had a 2 yr avg of 2.5 and finished my 5 yr degree with a cumulative 3.1 (with a 3.9 in the 40 hrs in my major PETE classes)). However, I had 5 internships when I graduated and that made all the difference when interviewing for full time positions. 5% of the interviews involved school and the other 95% involved work experiences and how I could be an immediate contributor to my employer.

Too many times, I have seen students that have school paid for take all the time to study and pull 4.0's. But, without real life experiences (internships, jobs, etc.), these students are merely regurgitating textbook information on tests. They lack the decision making skills necessary to be an effective employee later down the road.

I work for one of the more prestigious independent oil & gas companies, and while they obviously like good grades, they consider ALL aspects when screening their potential candidates. Work experience speaks VOLUMES. My company routinely passes over candidates that companies like Exxon go after because while their grades were great, they lacked "the complete package".

I give the big THUMBS DOWN to GPA requirements
Guitarsoup
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I agree. With all the crap that I have gone through in college, my GPA is terrible, but on the rise.

At least I interview well. Hopefully that will count for something.
Dirty
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agreed.

but you're talking about hundreds if not thousands of possible applicants at a career fair. there's no way a company have the resources to go through each and every application to evaluate an applicant's full potential i.e. job experiences, work ethic, etc.

by taking gpa into account, at least they weed out some applicants who at first glance don't seem to cut it. if nothing else, gpa is the easist quantifiable measurement. you win some, you lose some.
Keegan99
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After conducting interviews on campus, I have to agree with the above opinion.

I worked for a software company, and we primarily interviewed CPSC and CPEN majors, along with a handful of others.

Our initial on-campus interview was a so-called 'technical screening' that assessed proficiency in a variety of areas (Java, PERL, C, C++, Unix, NT, OO concepts, and problem solving).

I was positively dumbfounded by the complete lack of correlation between GPR and actual knowledge and skills.

I saw CPSC students with 3.9+ GPRs leave on the verge of tears, and INFO students with 2.9's perform with flying colors.


In our case, I think we found a lot of these "sleepers" because we sent technical people to recruit on campus, and not HR folks. At the career fair, if a resume looked good but the GPR was a litte low, our representatives could slip in a few technical questions in the conversation and get a quick read on the real situation.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 1/21/2003 9:19p).]
jim hat
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luckily, ANY GPA is good for a musician, since it means you actually went to school
jmtamu
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I couldn't agree more. It sucks for us smart people that have crappy GPA's. Give me an interview and I'll get the job over a 4.0er though.
MEEN_AG98
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if you are good looking and have a high gpa and can tell a joke, you'll work anywhere and make more than anyone you know.

for the rest...

When i interviewed, this is what i looked for and saw:
high gpa (over 3.8) equals potential social disaster, if the kid gives me just ONE reason to think he's a nerd-*******, NO WAY, he's out.

lower high GPA (3.5<x<3.8) potential good candidate, but watch out for the personality, this guy could be a huge cocky and conceded *******. These guys are the ones that don't get along well with others. If the kid gives me one reason to think he can't be on a team, he's out

middle GPA (3<x<3.4) these guys are usually down to earth and pretty friendly, not conceded and not cocky (usually). they play well with others but sometimes don't ask questions. there is a reluctance to not "feel dumb". If the kid is a good talker, good bull****er, and seems like he can be told what to do and can also tell someone what to do, I’d grab them. This is the hiring group.

(2.7<x<2.9) These guys have the potential to be brilliant, if the interview goes great and the kid sounds smarter than the 3.5 kid whose a cocky *******, he's in! These kids appreciate you giving them a shot, they will work hard and also have great great ideas, they are free thinkers and will always question why things have to be the way they are and will try to solve problems. watch out for one thing though, these kids can potentially think that the law does not apply to them. ONE LITTLE TINY hint of this, and they are gone! This is the other hiring group.

(2.2<x<2.6) low self esteem, few talent here. Exceptions are out there, but beware of them being lazy. If they are smart, odds are they are lazy or they think that rules do not apply to them. Beware.... These guys may usually be real real real good at one thing (other than a smoking lots of weed) they can be wonderful if their talent is usable

less than 2.1, usually the grades speak for themselves here, no motivation, very low self esteem, lazy, apathetic and maybe a little ignorant. You can find some gems here though, but you are taking a high risk, especially if you have better candidates up higher...

rules of thumb:
if you are ugly, you better be smart
if you are good looking, you can be a little dumb
if you are a bad talker, you better be smart and good looking
if you are dumb, you better be a slick talker and good looking
if you are lazy, you better be a real slick talker and very good looking
if you are conceded, you better find another personality.


Snowman2154
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MEEN_AG you are about right.
Euphemistic Ag
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2.7-2.9 is the potential to be brilliant? Damn, I knew I should have kept my study habits freshman year. 5 nights of drinking and class once a week!
Euphemistic Ag
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I had a 2.7 my freshman year, but I've had a 3.4 since then. I still only have a 3.2 with rounding

I'm hoping I don't wind up selling my body on the street to 55 year old men. If anyone knows of a company in Texas that is doing interns this summer let me know, I'm gonna need all the help I can get with the way things are going these days.
fido00
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MEEN Ag98- Where did you get that? It sounds like that was written somewhere.

That is hilarious, and sounds about right, at least I hope so.
MEEN_AG98
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hahaha

it's kind of funny but it breaks down around like that. being humiliated on tests and bouncing back says something, knowing how to fall on your face and excel is great. If your grades are really high, then great! i hope you can get along with people, and treat them fairly.
i can't explain it, but i think most people will agree with that breakdown.

i forgot one thing on the rules of thumb:

if you are dumb you better be hardworking and quick learning (working hard in order to compensate for not being smart will burn you out)
if you are good looking, you don't have to work as hard as long as you are a slick talker
if you are hardworking, take a break after a while because the good-looking guy is talking advantage of you and you don't even know it.


MEEN_AG98
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sorry fido that's my own stuff. just what i learned in my quick 2 years of working after college and my year co-oping. I've done alot of interviews and been interviewed lots of time, it's an interesting deal. My staff teaches me alot about "the rules of thumb" it's pretty funny...

basically if you have high grades give the impression that you are as social as anyone and enjoy getting a beer with your friends or better yet strangers. tell them you are spontaneous.

If you have lower grades, show your enthusiasm and potential work ethic, your great ability to sell ice cubes to an Eskimo. you got to show them you can work in a team and get along with anyone, change is no problem, you crave it.

fido00
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MEEN Ag-

That is some good stuff then. It sounds like it should be pretty much right on.
Raider News
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When I took a few summer school classes at Blinn this past summer, one of my profs said that when an employer sees you have a college degree, the only thing it tells him that you have a willingness to learn. Thats it. No more. no less. lol.
RockyTopAggie
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Meen_Ag.... I have a 3.87 and will drink and joke around for hours on end... I believe I was given a rare gift to see things and not have to study too much... very abstract... as far as looks go, you would have to decide on that...

We do more tailgating before noon, than most people do all year!! -- Aggie Booze Crew
Jac
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quote:
high gpa (over 3.8) equals potential social disaster



I've talked with people in management who would not consider people who had a 4.0, because of concerns of how they would interact with other people.
Vandi
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2.5 gpr in Econ, had offers from Enron and Duke, among others.

gpr doesnt mean poop, if you know your sh#%
aprosulaw
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sounds like a bunch of crap...but i got job so why do i care
MEEN_AG98
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There was a slight moment in my existence when i could say that about my own grades, but they leveled out.

Raider, YES. THAT is the absolute truth and do not let anyone tell you otherwise. Your ability to learn is proven by your degree BUT ONLY when dealing with engineering and the general science fields. Not business or teaching or other fields as much from what i have seen.
Seems that professionals know that you can't be expected to remember anything you were taught in the fields of Mechanical or Chemical Engineering. I don't practice engineering, but i am around it enough to appreciate the fact that no matter what i would have retained in school, my job only deals with a couple of chapters from my thermo book and fluids book, and maybe another chapter from my heat transfer book. My job is application, so really my mechanical engineering degree is not as useful as say a mechanical engineering TECHNOLOGY degree. I handle money more than anything so I had to learn business. Ironic...

AggieNAnnArbor
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My older sister does a great deal of hiring for her company. She mentioned a few months ago that they had done away with any GPA requirements in the hiring process. They realized after years of having a high GPA standard they were letting vast numbers of qualified people slip away while at the same time getting vast numbers of people who were very book smart but were lacking in certain social skills.

Tanya 93
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Had you been born with wealthier parents, you wouldn't have had to work.

They should have worked harder in life to make sure they could pay for your college so you could have a good GPA.

Now your life is screwed because your ancestors didn't work hard enough to make enough money to put you through school.
skrangeo
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Tanya,

was that your complete post? It seems like it is either missing a beginning or a conclusion.

Or, maybe it was just supposed to be taken in a sarcastic tone.
Tanya 93
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me?

sarcastic?

Many families should have worked harder in life to make sure their kids could have good grades in school.

I suggest you work harder now so your children never face this discrimination against the poor.

[This message has been edited by Tanya 93 (edited 1/22/2003 7:36a).]
Pro Ag
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I love people that whine when GPA is a requirement. Face it folks, there are people that have good GPAs and meet the criteria you posted in the first post.

Guitarsoup
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I'm here because I am a people person, dangit!![/Tom Smykowski from Office Space]
ENG
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I would agree with you, MEEN_AG98. I was in your "Low-Middle" Category when interviewing my senior year. Working during school and engineering jobs during summer helped a lot. I believe I interview well and had to take a test during the on campus interview. I think pretty well on my feet, so I did well. I even asked the guy to stop looking over my shoulder, yikes.

I also conducted interviews on campus for three semesters. You can imagine the chances I gave to the students with the average GPA's. A couple of the graduates I recommended were hired and did very well. My department manager shifted one of my guys to the top based on his GPA, against my recommendation. His second interview lasted about 15 minutes, he could hardly talk to people. He never questioned me again.

A lot of the students with the low to average GPA's have this preconceived notion that an interview is going to go terrible. Their confidence is down from the start. You don't need to be cocky, but show that confidence. Make them think that you know you can do the job.


[This message has been edited by ENGag89 (edited 1/22/2003 8:05a).]
YZ250
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One could counter the high GPR = no social skills generalization with the argument that a low GPR person lacks responsibility, discipline, and succumbs to peer pressure.

TheFro
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My father graduated in the 50's with a degree in Geophysics. He worked for Shell Oil his entire career. He is now retired. A few years back he told me a story how he and about 10 other Shell executives were discussing the requirements to just get an interview at Shell. A majority of them (who graduated in the 50's and 60's) would not have made the GPA cutoff in the 90's, and would not even get an interview today. Yet these men were life-long employees and eventual executives.

Fro
schmellba99
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Dow Chemical several years back went to the philosophy that they would only hire the top 10% of students from their particular field. They found out over a course of a few years that this was not the right approach to hiring. If they were to hire 5 engineers from the top of the class they found that in a period of a couple of years that at least 3 of the 5 either underperformed because they were not the "top dog" as they were accustomed to anymore, or they had left the company to be the "top dog" with another outfit. By only hiring the top grads you do not get a good mix of intelligence, common sense, and hard working nature. If you were to hire, say 5 chemical engineers, a good mix would be something like this:
(1) 3.5-4.0 GPA (you need somebody that is intelligent and can comprehend every aspect of the job)
(2) 3.0-3.5 GPA (good ability to learn yet have the down to earth qualities to generate realistic goals and projects)
(2) 2.5-3.0 GPA (you need somebody that will be happy doing the research, etc. and that does not have the absolute desire to move up the ladder)

my particular company shoots for graduates with cumulative GPAs ranging from 2.75 to 3.5. They have found out over the course of several years that this range generally produces the most desireable leaders. This range usually produces people with good common sense, the ability to learn, the ability to communicate with a broad range of individuals, and the desire to move up in the business world at a reasonable pace. We do approximately $1 billion a year in work, so i think this theory has proven itself to be worthwhile, at least in the construction industry anyway
skrangeo
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ProAg,

The theme isn't that there aren't qualified candidates with 3.5+ GPA's. The main point is that there are too many factors that determine a person's productivity besides just grades.

Should basketball players be recruited solely on height? That would eliminate the John Stocktons and Steve Francis' of the NBA. Would that make sense? That is along the same theme as having a GPA requirement.

Grades should have a role in the decision making progress, but it doesn't make any sense to cull out 80% of the applicants without having a chance to consider all of the candidate's skills and experience.
agracer
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quote:
and will always question why things have to be the way they are


only to be shot down by the older guys who say "because that's the way we've always done it"..

Of course I don't work there anymore and the company is on a major downhill slide.
tallulah
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These are all very interesting points... but at what point does job experience preceed GPR? And how does one factor in graduate degrees?

GPRs are in no way indicative of performance. I eeked out 2.4 undergrad and nearly 4.0 graduate (both at TAMU and both technical programs).

How would your employers categorize me or someone similar?

Just curious.
Bacon
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The policy of some companies not interviewing candidates w/ 4.0 is true, and total BS. I have been burned by this. When I was interviewing I still had a 4.0, and at career fair was doing the normal schmoozing and passing out my resume. One company that I had my sights on wouldn't even grant me a single interview. I had a friend that worked there, he did some asking, and found that they adhered to the policy of 4.0 students = social reject. They didn't even glance at my resume that showed I had plenty of work experience and tons of well rounded extracurricular activities. Total BS. Oh well, it was their loss.

----
Are people more violently opposed to fur rather than leather because it's much easier to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs?
Pro Ag
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skrangeo,
I see your points, but here is how I look at it:

Having a good GPA in college means you can follow directions and meet deadlines. I think if you have a high GPA (in most cases) it shows that you are able to manage your time and get things done correctly.

Are there people that could do a good job in the workplace, but screwed off in college? Yes. Does that mean a company is just supposed to hope that this person will turn it around now that they have a job?

Who can blame companies that get large quantities of applicants for being picking and starting with GPA as a requirement. As I said, if they are picky about that, they will find people with a good GPA that also had good experience (on campus or work).

Final note, if you know you wanted to work for a company that required a high GPA, business should have been taken care of earlier. And if you want a job bad enough, you can usually get your foot in the door (especially if you know someone).
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