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Chancellor John Sharp shares details of Texas A&M School of Law

June 29, 2012
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In a TexAgs.com exclusive, Texas A&M chancellor John Sharp sat down with Gabe Bock to lay out the full details of A&M's new partnership with Texas Wesleyan University on a public law school in D/FW.
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Chancellor John Sharp shares details of Texas A&M School of Law

12,799 Views | 30 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by staedtler
Gabe Bock
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Chancellor John Sharp shares details of Texas A&M School of Law
909Ag2006
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Great job Gabe!
AggieDusty
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Nice! He sure thinks highly of TexAgs.
LastExit99
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I very much appreciate these reports. However, TexAgs is about as unbiased in its coverage of Texas A&M athletics and the university in general as MSNBC is to the Democratic Party.
boxerXXXVI
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Did they ask how they were going to turn the worst law school in the state into something respectable?

I doubt it.

But I will bet you a dollar that, within our lifetimes, A&M will have a respectable law school on campus. Top-100, barring screw ups.
Gabe Bock
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Exit...tell that to Sherman.

We were very unbiased with each win, loss, etc. And we will continue to be that way moving forward. Fair, tilted toward the positive but won't avoid the truth.

[This message has been edited by gabe_bock (edited 6/29/2012 5:21p).]
LostMyPassingOffense
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quote:
Did they ask how they were going to turn the worst law school in the state into something respectable?

Worst in the state? Apparently you haven't heard of St. Mary's.
atm86
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So glad this is on football board. Not.
AggieDusty
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quote:
So glad this is on football board. Not.

atm86... Really? This is a big deal for our university. Plus there's not a whole lot of "football" going on right now.
TxAginAz
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Wel,l I'm glad it's posted here. This is huge news for our University and is one of the benefits of our SEC move. And who still says, "Not."?
boxerXXXVI
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St Mary's has higher job placement than Texas Wesleyan. I think it was higher than South Texas last year, also. I dunno, I don't keep close tabs of the tier four grads.

But I would like to amend my statement:

The second worst law school in the state. Texas Southern is in the discussion for worst in the nation and far more terrible than Texas Wesleyan.
Old Main
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Texas A&M will make the Law School great. I'm confident that we won't do this half-ass since we have been wanting this for 40 years. It will become a first rate law school. Our leaders have done some incredible things in the past 9 months that have stunned the haters.

Let's enjoy the ride.

Baron de Bastrop
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I never stop being amused by all the usual debbie downners who have never been in the arena but effortlessly and consistently see the worst in everything that real leaders try to accomplish. I'm glad Sharp and others ignore them.
SEC or Bust
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What the sec brand name will do for a&m the a&m brand will do for texas wesleyan law.
RAB83
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I agree with Old Main. We will make this a leading law school within a decade. There's a lot of legal scholars in the metroplex to draw from, plus we'll money slap anyone we really want.

Frankly, we're on the way to not only becoming the preeminent university in Texas, but one of the top 10 in the nation. Glad I attended when I did. I probably couldn't get admitted today.
WatchOle
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quote:
However, TexAgs is about as unbiased in its coverage of Texas A&M athletics and the university in general as MSNBC is to the Democratic Party.

Wait, what does that have to do with this interview and Sharp's comments? And, you mean a single school fan site is not completely unbiased? Nooooo - Say it isn't so!!
Seersucker Ag 2011
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I imagine that it is tough to balance brutally honest reporting with the need to stay in the good graces of coaches, administrators, etc. As long as discussions on potential misteps and shortcomings are allowed by posters, I don't see a problem.
boxerXXXVI
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I hope you don't mean me, baron, since I am currently doing the law school thing.

And tore up a scholarship offer from Texas Wesleyan.

Of course...that decision may come back and bite me in the butt. Forty years from now. When I'm retired. But TWU grads don't get jobs, so it would have been stupid to go there when I started law school.

Despite this, I will primarily donate to A&M's law school if and when it moves to the main campus and is within a reasonable distance of Allen and the Bush library where it belongs.
atfarmer
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quote:
Did they ask how they were going to turn the worst law school in the state into something respectable?


It honestly shouldn't be that hard.

Step 1 is attract a top notch faculty. A&M can do that. We've got money and DFW is a big, hopping area with a lot to do.

Step 2 is improve career prospects. I'm not sure there's a better school in the country for that than A&M. Our grads are fanatically loyal, so they'll go out of their way to hire A&M law school grads (they'll feel they're doing their part to get our law school up and running and improve the A&M brand). Also, the only competition in the DFW area is SMU, which is small and private.

Step 3 is improve student measurables (GPA and LSAT). Once A&M's rank climbs a bit (due to 1&2), you'll see a lot of Aggies choose to attend A&M over other schools (again, we really are a cult haha).

UC Irvine Law was founded like 4 years ago and it'll probably debut in the law school rankings at 40ish. A&M won't be able to do that, but I bet they can get into the top 60-70 within 10 years, which would be a pretty big leap
atfarmer
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quote:
Despite this, I will primarily donate to A&M's law school if and when it moves to the main campus and is within a reasonable distance of Allen and the Bush library where it belongs.


I think it's much better for the law school to be in a big city.

1) it makes interviewing for internships much easier (and likewise, it makes it much easier to get law firms and gov agencies looking for interns on campus). This will boost placement stats, which increases the school's rank

2) It's great to be able to do an internship in the same city in which you attend law school. It means you don't have to mess around with subletting your place and finding another location to live

It wouldn't be the end of the world if the law school ended up in CS, but it's probably better for it to be in DFW
boxerXXXVI
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You're flamboyantly wrong on all accounts. If it remains in Fort Worth as part of the "system", the average person will think of it like A&M Commerce or something similar.

1) Texas Wesleyan has been in a "big city" (like south Texas, Texas southern, and saint Mary's) and it is still a tier four hellhole. SMU dominates the metroplex. Dominates. A&M won't crack that with "local presence".

Why even bother with a law school unless you want national prominence? Why? It makes zero sense. Screw local presence, if you truly cared about that you would piss and moan about A&M being in college station. Podunk, USA. A&M thrives on the global image, because...let's face it...the local image ain't pretty. National. Global. That's the two key words when discussing A&M Law and the best way to do that is to park a bigass building with a bigass library and a bigass mock trial/moot court facility right next to the Bush School.

2) Any law school worth its salt has programs in place that assist with that, and companies sometimes will also assist. Your point is moot.

Anything else?
atfarmer
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quote:
If it remains in Fort Worth as part of the "system", the average person will think of it like A&M Commerce or something similar.


I strongly disagree. You think UT Southwestern & UT Houston don't heap prestige on the UT system?

quote:
1) Texas Wesleyan has been in a "big city" (like south Texas, Texas southern, and saint Mary's) and it is still a tier four hellhole. SMU dominates the metroplex. Dominates. A&M won't crack that with "local presence".


It's still Texas Weslayan, which doesn't have the $$ to lure big faculty or complete with SMU. It's impossible to make that comparison with a straight face

quote:
Why even bother with a law school unless you want national prominence? Why? It makes zero sense. Screw local presence, if you truly cared about that you would piss and moan about A&M being in college station. Podunk, USA. A&M thrives on the global image, because...let's face it...the local image ain't pretty. National. Global. That's the two key words when discussing A&M Law and the best way to do that is to park a bigass building with a bigass library and a bigass mock trial/moot court facility right next to the Bush School.


This just isn't accurate. National prestige will not be accumulated simply due to our location. Sure there would be a couple of classes that would be crosslisted between the Bush School and the law school (but not THAT many), and we'd probably establish a pretty cool "Center for National Security and Law." But that's not enough to make much of a difference in national ranking. Instead, we'll gain that by improving job placement, peer reviews (i.e. what other law profs think of our law faculty and quality of instruction), and student measurables (LSAT&GPA). The first two will be most easily increased in a big city.
boxerXXXVI
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1) comparing law school and med school is comparing apples to oranges. UT medical is in Houston for specific reasons, not because "WHELP THE BUILDINGS ARE ALREADY THERE". So, this point is completely ludicrous.

2) The entire idea of law school in Texas (besides Texas) is location. SMU grads work in the metroplex. UH grads and south Texas grads and St Mary's grads work in Houston and San Antonio.

Texas Wesleyan grads work wherever the hell they can. Which is pretty much nowhere. Maybe Arkansas and Oklahoma.

The ENTIRE SYSTEM OF LAW EDUCATION (except for Texas) in this state is set up to provide local attorneys. I don't want A&M to be a "local" school. I want it to be a national brand. Top 100.

And let me tell you, top schools aren't local schools. A "presence" in DFW. How moronic. What, you think it'll help with football recruiting? That's all you people seem to know about.

But I Think Sharpe is smart enough to know all this, so this conversation is pointless.
JYDog90
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Gabe, you did a really good job on this interview. Encouraging to see.
TxAgLaw03RW
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Boxer- you have no idea what you are talking about. This '06 A&M law grad has been gainfully employed with one of the best defense firms in Dallas for five years. Perhaps you need an attitude adjustment if your main concern is whether you think a law school is going to get you a job. I can tell you first hand that where you went to law school matters much less than whether you can do the work and fit in at a certain firm. If you are in law school now, you may want to drop that sense of entitlement. I have lost count of how many UH, tu, SMU, St. Mary's grads we have let go because of incompetence.

The reason Wesleyan has been stuck as a tier 4 is because of the admininstration there and lack of resources. With A&M running the show, the law school is instantly better off and will be at the top in no time.
Eagle78
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Doubt it will be raised into tier 1 status "in no time." However, I think what A&M is doing is looking at this long term. Not 5 or 10 years from now but 50 years from now. Perhaps by then we will crack into tier 1 status.

Things are slow to change in the legal profession. One thing I have noticed after more than 30 years of being is an attorney is that lawyers are absolutely obsessed with prestige. Its very very odd because other professions are not that way.
Bison
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Raid the original UT in Knoxville for Glenn Harlan Reynolds. Raid UCLA for Eugene Volokh. Get Randy Barnett. Let them form your hiring committee.

Now that'd be a law school!
JYDog90
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Stop bad-mouthing the law school. Did you even listen to what Sharp had to say? We were never, ever going to be able to start a new law school--every other law school/university in Texas has an inferiority complex--and didn't want A&M to have one. So, if we want one--we have to buy one.

South Texas did not want to be bought and turned into A&M. We know it ain't the best in Texas nor the US. Turns out, tu wouldn't sell theirs, nor would Stanford, nor would Harvard. Good ones don't get sold.

We thought having a law school was important so we went and bought a fixer upper.

We get it. We know it's not up to your standards. Shut your trap and let A&M do it's stuff to it. It may not look like much now but give it time.

It may not compare to the cute little law degree you mom and dad bought you but I suspect that this will be something we'll be proud of.

*Edit for hitting "done" button on my iPhone.

[This message has been edited by Willie Wonka (edited 7/1/2012 2:35p).]
atfarmer
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The ENTIRE SYSTEM OF LAW EDUCATION (except for Texas) in this state is set up to provide local attorneys. I don't want A&M to be a "local" school. I want it to be a national brand. Top 100.

And let me tell you, top schools aren't local schools. A "presence" in DFW. How moronic.


You don't seem to understand how law school rankings work at all. The only schools that consistently place attorneys nationally are the top 14 (and to a greater extent, the top 10). Schools in the 15-25 range can do it, but only for their top students. I have a cousin who graduated from ND (#22 or so) and got an internship with a 9th circuit judge, but he graduated #2 in his class. Get much lower than that and the ability to place shrinks dramatically. So in order to even start the "national brand" conversation, we need to get into the top 20-25. To be taken seriously, we need to get into the top 14 (and good luck with that. The top 14 have been the same for the last 35 years or so, and they're almost all private schools).

Until then, we'll be a regional school. That is, we can't just snap our fingers and say "Forget this regional law school business. We're going to be a national law school from day 1." That's not how the game works. We have to work our way up the ladder first i.e. become a strong regional school. It will be easier to do that in a big metropolitan area. Again, the USNWR rankings use placement as a part of their rankings, and it's MUCH easier to place attorneys when we're in a big city and have tons of potential employers nearby.

For example, take this very real scenario. Firms like to hire people with on-the-job experience. Law students gain this experience through semester clinics and jobs (both during the summer and semester). The opportunities between DFW and CS are more than a little lopsided. In DFW,
1) we can have our students working for those cities' public defenders and prosecutors during the semester. Not only does that expose our students to a wider variety of legal situations i.e. more than MIPs and Northgate assault charges (which firms notice), but it means our students have a greater chance of getting offers from those agencies because the people hiring know our students personally and know the kind of work they'll do.
2) We can have our students doing contract work for nascent tech startups.
3) Students can hold part time jobs for law firms during semesters (HUGE HUGE HUGE).

I'm sure I could come up with more, but this is a sufficient number to make my point.

If our law school is in CS, these opportunities are hamstrung or disappear completely because B/CS is just too small. Working for the CS prosecutor's office, students would be exposed to a small fraction of the situations they'd see in the big city. And job opportunities are pretty much non-existent unless you want to do family law.

If you say that doesn't matter, you're flat out wrong. Law firms love this stuff far more than they'd love a "Law and National Security Center." Period, the end.

[This message has been edited by atfarmer (edited 7/1/2012 5:10p).]
staedtler
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boxer is a dumbass.

Good interview, Gabe.
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