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Texas A&M Basketball

Billy Kennedy: "I thought our guys were just terrible"

February 25, 2012
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Notes from Billy Kennedy post-game press conference

Opening statement…
"Not to take anything away from Oklahoma State - they did a lot of good things - but I thought our guys were just terrible. We had a bad effort. Our practices haven't been good. The ball is stuck … we're selfish offensively. And we were stealing money from the university. It was disgusting and I apologize to Texas A&M and our fans for the effort and the way we didn't share the ball offensively."

On whether he saw the poor effort coming…
"We've been worse since we got guys back, offensively. The ball is sticking and that happens with injuries. When you bring guys back, the chemistry is taken in another direction. I could see it coming three weeks ago, but fortunately we were able to weather some of the storm [at that time]. But again, Oklahoma State did some good things. Markel Brown is a tough matchup. I thought their big guys did a really good job of keeping us from scoring around the basket."

On LeBryan Nash's injury for OSU and whether it affected A&M's game…
"It didn't have any affect. I think sometimes teams play better [when a key player is out]. They moved the ball better. Their offense was crisper. [The ball] didn't stick. Travis [Ford] did a really good job of playing without [Nash] and their post guys came in and did a good job."

On Keiton Page's effort for OSU…
"He's a great player. He maxes out, pound-for-pound, as good of a player as I've played against. He reminds me of Scotty Brooks, who coaches the Oklahoma City Thunder. He's worked on his game and spent more hours on his game that probably anybody he's played against. I have great respect for what he's been able to do because you look at him and you don't see what you end up getting."
Discussion from...

Billy Kennedy: 'I thought our guys were just terrible' (link fixed)

29,474 Views | 140 Replies | Last: 11 yr ago by JeffHamilton82
JeffHamilton82
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12:59p, 10/4/12
Hayden - do we still have a $300 bet?
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XL2Win
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12:09a, 10/9/12
quote:
BKs first year > Sherman's first year


Yeah ... our football program was just as good when Sherman took over as our basketball program when Kennedy took over.

Incredible amount of ignorance in that comparison.
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Houston Summit
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2:05a, 10/9/12
AG
Damn, 8 months later and XL is still butthurt
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Method Man
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7:40a, 10/9/12
XL is a Sherman lover as well. Defies explanation for a guy who claims to only care about results.
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XL2Win
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1:48p, 10/9/12
Sherman's talent seems to be doing pretty well.

My point was that comparing the state of the football program at the time of Sherman's entry and comparing the state of the basketball program at the time of Kennedy's entry is just plain laughable. Hardly equal levels of accomplishment and status.

This is NOT a comment about Sherman or Sumlin, Turgeon or Kennedy. It's a statement of fact that the two programs were in totally different condition at the time of the coaching changes.

If you'd like to offer some factual basis for how they were in a similar state, I'd certainly be willing to listen.

[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 10/9/2012 12:50p).]
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XL2Win
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1:53p, 10/9/12
I'm not a Sherman lover. I like him. He was a man of great character but he game-day coached like an NFL coach and it cost us several times.

Having said that, he had a really, really good class coming in and I thought he deserved one more year. I wasn't heartbroken that he was replaced although I thought the process was simply horrific, particularly the injection of personal interference from our university's administration.
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Houston Summit
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4:50p, 10/9/12
AG
quote:
My point was that comparing the state of the football program at the time of Sherman's entry and comparing the state of the basketball program at the time of Kennedy's entry is just plain laughable. Hardly equal levels of accomplishment and status

How? The team Kennedy inherited wasn't all that talented to begin with. We were 2nd round mainstays, and nothing more. It's not like we had a roster full of Kentucky recruits that Turge left behind.

Factor that along with the fact that our best scorer missed nearly half the year, our most physical big man missed the whole year, and ET had to play out of position at PG since our depth there was nonexistent once Branch quit and Dash went down with injury, it's not hard to see why our team struggled. Even Coach K or Bob Knight would have struggled to win games with the circumstances that Coach Kennedy faced. Step off the ledge a bit, look at the big picture, and don't be so quick to toss stones at our Head Coach for things that were out of his control.
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Method Man
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5:34p, 10/9/12
"Sherman's talent seems to be doing pretty well."

Because we have a real college coach now.
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XL2Win
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10:37p, 10/9/12
Summit, who's at that summit?
The Three Stooges?

If you can't see the immediate success in the hoops program prior to BK's arrival vis-a-vis Sherman's and the benefit of that in recruiting, not to mention it's a lot easier to build a hoops program in a short time vs a football program then I just can't help you escape the fog.

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XL2Win
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10:37p, 10/9/12
dp



[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 10/9/2012 9:38p).]
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XL2Win
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10:41p, 10/9/12
quote:
but he game-day coached like an NFL coach and it cost us several times.


Method, what part of my above statement didn't you understand?

[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 10/9/2012 9:46p).]
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Houston Summit
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10:58p, 10/9/12
AG
quote:
If you can't see the immediate success in the hoops program prior to BK's arrival

Again, what success? Sure, we made it to the tourney for 5 years in a row, but we made it past the 2nd round 1 time, and that was before Turgeon even got here. The team wasn't bad by any means, but we leveled out in the second round for many consecutive years, which doesn't exactly scream success.

And I still don't understand why you can't accept the fact that nearly all the hardships this team faced last year were things that nobody could control. How can we possibly blame Coach for players getting hurt? If anything, it just goes to show how thin our depth was, which again, isn't Kennedy's fault.

Let's see how Coach does with the players he recruited for his system. If we are having this same discussion this time next year or two years from now, then yeah, let's evaluate the state of the program. Until then though, let's see what he can do
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XL2Win
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11:16p, 10/9/12
quote:
Sure, we made it to the tourney for 5 years in a row,


Yep. That's almost identical to the football's program performance over that same time frame.

Do you know how many teams made the dance 5 years in a row? It's a very small group. That's a very measurable symbol of success.

There will be a littany of excuses ... new coach, not all his players yet, new conference, etc etc etc because that's what we do for 4-5 years for every coach. It's not a BK thing ... it's an A&M thing.
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Houston Summit
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12:38a, 10/10/12
AG
So simply making the dance is successful to you?
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XL2Win
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6:44a, 10/10/12
It's something very few teams do 5 years in a row but it's certainly not where I ultimately want to be. I want to hang conference championship banners and a national championship banner, but to say that 5 consecutive years in the big dance wasn't dramatically more successful than the football program under Franchione (which was passed to Sherman) is beyond ludicrous.



[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 10/10/2012 7:05a).]
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Houston Summit
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11:44a, 10/10/12
AG
We went to the Cotton Bowl, Holiday Bowl and Alamo Bowl in Fran's last years, and we made it to the 2nd round 3 times and lost the first game in Turgeon's last year. Seems about even to me. Simply making it to the 2nd round shouldn't be your goal, and simply making a bowl game shouldn't be your goal. Both programs have room to improve, and both have been average in recent years.
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XL2Win
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1:54p, 10/10/12
Which coach in which sport was fired for performance?
Franchione, in football
'nuff said

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Houston Summit
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2:48p, 10/10/12
AG
Yeah, because this is a football school. Average isn't acceptable. Sherman and Fran were both .500, the epitome of average, and they were canned. It doesn't mean that just because our basketball coach wasn't fired that our program has been wildly successful.

If you consider 2nd round in the NCAA successful, then I guess we just have two totally different viewpoints. But regardless, our basketball coaches aren't held to the same standard as football coaches, because if we are honest with ourselves, we will admit that football is much more important to Texas A&M than basketball. That's just the way it is
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XL2Win
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3:22p, 10/10/12
quote:
our program has been wildly successful


Where in the world do you get this? Show me where I made a comment even remotely resembling this.
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Houston Summit
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3:34p, 10/10/12
AG
You're the one who brought up the fact that Fran was canned and Turgeon wasn't, which was implying that our football team sucked and our basketball team was successful. And I pointed out that the expectations for the two sports aren't anywhere near the same level, judging by the fact that berths to the Cotton, Holiday and Alamo Bowls weren't enough to keep him employed. But just because our basketball coach wasn't fired does not mean that we've had great success in basketball, which is why it's silly to throw stones at Coach Kennedy for last years struggles.
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XL2Win
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4:27p, 10/10/12
quote:
fact that Fran was canned and Turgeon wasn't

And that's apparently YOUR definition of "wildly successful". It's certainly not mine.

I didn't throw stones at BK. I just said he didn't inherit a program that was at the same level as our football program when Sherman took over from Franchione, which is true. I didn't say we were a championship quality team so there were no stones thrown about our season performance. I thought Sherman showed steady progress but I also said his NFL mentality hurt us badly several times.

I

I watched this forum defend Watkins for 5 years when it was beyond obvious that the guy wasn't going to produce, pleading that he just "needs one more year" to "get his guys". If BK struggles again, I know I'll hear that again. My general rule of thumb is 3 years ... if you can't show marked improvement in 3 years in basketball you're probably not on the right track barring some kind of extraordinary circumstances.

[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 10/10/2012 3:35p).]
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XL2Win
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4:36p, 10/10/12
BTW, marked improvement doesn't mean a championship (before you head down that road).
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Houston Summit
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5:12p, 10/10/12
AG
quote:
quote:
fact that Fran was canned and Turgeon wasn't

And that's apparently YOUR definition of "wildly successful". It's certainly not mine.

No it's not. That's what YOU said. You said that Fran was the one who was fired, and not a basketball coach, because you were trying to make a point that the football program was in shambles by pointing to the fact that our head coach got canned. I was just pointing out the error in that assessment
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XL2Win
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6:23p, 10/10/12
I didn't introduce the term "wildly successful". You might want to work on the remedial reading comprehension class.

I said the basketball program was in better shape on the transition from Turgeon to Kennedy than the football program was in transition from Fran to Sherman. And I'm sticking with that evaluation.

You might want to try to look between the A and the Z. You see black and white, with no shades of gray. Is going to the post-season 7 consecutive years, and the big dance 6 consecutive years a success? You bet your butt. Is it the pinnacle of success? Clearly not. Would most other schools in the country love to reach that level of success? Absolutely.

It's not "the program is in shambles" or it's "wildly successful". I never used either term to describe either the football program or the basketball program. You keep interjecting descriptive terms and then try to attach them to me.


[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 10/10/2012 5:33p).]
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JerryAg
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7:58p, 10/10/12
You know you've lost an argument when you criticize someone's English. That worked back in junior high XL
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XL2Win
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8:10p, 10/10/12
I swear there must be something in the water here.

Where do I criticize his English?
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Houston Summit
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9:11p, 10/10/12
AG
You're playing politics with me now. You mentioned that Fran was fired and Turgeon wasn't, therefore making the case that the basketball team was more successful than the football program. Now, when I say the basketball program wasn't "wildly successful" either, you criticize me for putting words in your mouth. I was only quoting what you said and refuting it. Because my point was that simply making it to the 2nd round isn't exactly something to write home about, and the fact that you claim the basketball program was very successful before Kennedy arrived is a slight exaggeration
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XL2Win
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9:16p, 10/10/12
I think you'd have a hard time finding too many people who know anything about college basketball who wouldn't consider 7 consecutive post-season appearances and 6 consecutive big dance appearances from a strong conference such as the Big12 as being unsuccessful.

Was it as successful as the very top tier of Duke, Kansas, UNC, etc? No. But it WAS successful. Nobody even remotely considered firing Turgeon. Nor have they considered firing Kennedy, and nor should they have at this point.
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Houston Summit
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9:20p, 10/10/12
AG
I agree it was successful. For awhile we were one of three teams who had won at least 1 game in the big dance for 5 straight years. But what happened afterwards? We were sent home. It's certainly nothing to be ashamed about, but it just wasn't crazy successful is all I'm saying. So when I say that Kennedy's first year as head coach was better than Sherman's first year as head coach, when you consider all the circumstances, it isn't that crazy of a statement. That's my whole point
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JerryAg
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9:24p, 10/10/12
What? You didn't like getting heartbroken by getting out in the second round every year?

As an Aggie I'm tired of just being good or successful. We've always been that way. I want to win something meaningful for once and not consider it a success to lose in the second round
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Houston Summit
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9:25p, 10/10/12
AG
Exactly Jerry. That's exactly what I was trying to say
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JerryAg
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9:31p, 10/10/12
We're the dynamic duo Summit. Together we can't be stopped
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XL2Win
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9:43p, 10/10/12
So how did that 2nd round work out for you last year? Were you upset that we didn't even make to the dance or even the NIT? Would you say you were more content to not make the dance than to exit before the Elite 8 or Sweet 16?

This year?

[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 10/10/2012 8:45p).]
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Houston Summit
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10:05p, 10/10/12
AG
Yes I was upset. I already said that. You're arguing something that I'm not. I was just saying that the team Coach Kennedy inherited was not all that great. It was a team that leveled off at the 2nd round. So when you have a team that doesn't have all world talent get stricken with injury, it puts our Coach in quite a predicament that is out of his control. And last year unfortunately exposed just how thin we were down low and at point, which is also a reflection of the previous regime. All of this is to show that our basketball program wasn't much better off than our football team was when Sherman inherited it.
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XL2Win
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10:40p, 10/10/12
quote:
All of this is to show that our basketball program wasn't much better off than our football team was when Sherman inherited it.


It wasn't great but it was a lot better than football and MUCH easier to fix. Two good players can totally alter a basketball program. Not so with football. That's why 3 yrs is the tell-tale break. If you can't show serious signs of marked improvement in 3 yrs, then you are highly unlikely to get it done in the next 3 yrs. And in Melvin's case, it was blatantly obvious by the end of year 2.

[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 10/10/2012 9:40p).]
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