Steve Kirsch is double jabbed.

Pokgai said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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Options abound for confirmation on any side.

There are some simple concepts that should be universal, though:
- A rational person should consider the cost:benefit before taking ANY medication.
- It should be self evident that as a virus evolves, a vaccine designed for the legacy variant loses its functional benefit.
- We likely have all been (or will be) exposed to Covid
- Ineffective measures aren't made effective through religious adherence.

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I agree with all your points. I would add another point to your list:

- Long term side/negative effects of the COVID vaccine.

This is one of the most sensitive subjects for the COVID vaccine, but critical to our discussion.

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I appreciate that point, but didn't include it because its not universally considered. The counter to the "long term side effects" is the "long term Covid / death" and that's an argument that would've distracted from any attempt to establish a sane middle ground.

KidDoc said:

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That webpage is insane. Item #4 is just a flat out lie.

What needs to be learned from the EUA is the reason EUA have never been used for vaccines in the past. The long term efficacy of these vaccines is awful and if that had be learned during a traditional five year clinical trial they would not have been approved.

I understand why they were pushed out but they are not working out nearly as good as the short term data promised.

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Im not disagreeing about long term efficacy, but I do have a question:

at what point in history has an eua been necessary for a vaccine? the only one i can remotely think of is polio and that was invented in 1953 and released in 1955, so it wasnt a very long timeline either. the first influenza wasnt discovered till long after spanish flu. so i still ask when did the us fda ever need to authorize an eua for a vaccine?

note, im probably not thinking of something.

Pokgai said:

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https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/the-safe-and-effective-narrative

Despite which side you are on, I strongly believe that we all need to take an objective analytical view into this matter. With accumulating data we can no longer sweep this issue under the rug or deem it as conspiracy theories. COVID will continue to live among us and many of us will continue to take the COVID vaccine. Therefore, the safety of the vaccine should be prioritize above other concerns.

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Im an mRNA person, and objectively speaking there iis absolutely no reason to get a vaccine at this point. i did get the moderna vaccine in very early 2020 because there had been no mutations at that point. but the science of mRNA is there. now that we can mostlt stabilize mRNA, its going to have a huge impact in medicine. i believe it will cure many genetic disease and have an impact in cancer treatments (if politics allows it...no money in the cure). ultimately most vaccines will move to mRNA, however I dont believe the fda will allow rapid approval on them (although i could be wrong there)

Harry Stone said:

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KidDoc said:

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That webpage is insane. Item #4 is just a flat out lie.

What needs to be learned from the EUA is the reason EUA have never been used for vaccines in the past. The long term efficacy of these vaccines is awful and if that had be learned during a traditional five year clinical trial they would not have been approved.

I understand why they were pushed out but they are not working out nearly as good as the short term data promised.

---

Im not disagreeing about long term efficacy, but I do have a question:

at what point in history has an eua been necessary for a vaccine? the only one i can remotely think of is polio and that was invented in 1953 and released in 1955, so it wasnt a very long timeline either. the first influenza wasnt discovered till long after spanish flu. so i still ask when did the us fda ever need to authorize an eua for a vaccine?

note, im probably not thinking of something.

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Great question and took me a bit of digging.

Quote:

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FDA's newfound EUA authority would be used relatively sparingly for the first 16 years following its enactment. During that time, its most extensive use was in combating the H1N1 swine flu pandemic of 2009 by authorizing medical equipment and existing influenza drugs. Health policy experts would look back on the use of EUA against H1N1 as an overall success. It would also be used (pursuant to an amendment allowing for preemptive EUAs) to authorize occasional countermeasures in anticipation of MERS, Ebola, Zika, and other epidemics, none of which ultimately materialized in the United States.

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https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2021/01/28/fda-emergency-use-authorization-history/

Personally I have two doses of Moderna way back in December 2020. I plan to get Novavax at this point once available. I still haven't had COVID somehow.

KidDoc said:

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Harry Stone said:

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KidDoc said:

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That webpage is insane. Item #4 is just a flat out lie.

What needs to be learned from the EUA is the reason EUA have never been used for vaccines in the past. The long term efficacy of these vaccines is awful and if that had be learned during a traditional five year clinical trial they would not have been approved.

I understand why they were pushed out but they are not working out nearly as good as the short term data promised.

---

Im not disagreeing about long term efficacy, but I do have a question:

at what point in history has an eua been necessary for a vaccine? the only one i can remotely think of is polio and that was invented in 1953 and released in 1955, so it wasnt a very long timeline either. the first influenza wasnt discovered till long after spanish flu. so i still ask when did the us fda ever need to authorize an eua for a vaccine?

note, im probably not thinking of something.

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Great question and took me a bit of digging.

Quote:

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FDA's newfound EUA authority would be used relatively sparingly for the first 16 years following its enactment. During that time, its most extensive use was in combating the H1N1 swine flu pandemic of 2009 by authorizing medical equipment and existing influenza drugs. Health policy experts would look back on the use of EUA against H1N1 as an overall success. It would also be used (pursuant to an amendment allowing for preemptive EUAs) to authorize occasional countermeasures in anticipation of MERS, Ebola, Zika, and other epidemics, none of which ultimately materialized in the United States.

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https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2021/01/28/fda-emergency-use-authorization-history/

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thank you for the info. i had no idea they used it for h1n1.

KidDoc said:

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Personally I have two doses of Moderna way back in December 2020. I plan to get Novavax at this point once available. I still haven't had COVID somehow.

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i had it feb 2021 and am in the same boat as you. my whole family just got covid over the last 6 weeks, my son just 10 days ago and im still the only non covid positive person at this point.

Received the original 2 doses(Moderna) back in Dec 2020 also and no boosters. Have had 4 blood draws participating in the UT Houston HSC Cares Study. As of my June 2022 draw still have a measurable titer of S protein. Still have not caught the virus. I travel monthly, dine out weekly and only wear a mask when seeing patients