help navigating treatment on covid ward

2,427 Views | 14 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by 88planoAg
88planoAg
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Update:

He will be discharged today. Nothing showed up on abdominal CT re: kidneys. Followup outpatient with urologist.

So he spent 5 days 4 nights on covid floor with no covid symptoms and delayed care for other things. Not impressed.

And will be counted as a covid hospitalization, btw.


I'll attempt to keep this brief. Sorry in advance for the novel

My dad had mildly symptomatic covid Dec 31. He is 82 and has other issues - early-mid stage parkinsons (arm tremor, posture changes, flatter affect); afib with recent procedures to allow discontinuation of blood thinners, low hemoglobin finally dx as an ulcerated polyp in small intestine - hemoglobin has been gradually going up but still low resulting (docs think) in general weakness/lack of strength to get up from sitting and some syncope episodes.
Also wildly fluctuating BP even though he has been on BP meds for years.

He was required to have a covid test prior to med procedure scheduled for Monday 1/31, test on Friday was neg, test on Monday was neg, but procedure delayed due at first to doc schedule then while waiting BP spiked. Transferred to ER, BP stabilized and discharged Monday Jan 31 to r/schdl procedure. Didn't eat for 24 hours due to prep for procedure. Ate dinner. The next morning ate breakfast but then felt weak and mom thought he was confused when looking at home BP #s. back to ER, no food again for awhile as tests ordered including MRI, delayed due to machine availability and ER recommended admit.

Admit procedure = yet another covid test. This one positive for covd.

Positive covid = covid ward, no visitors so Mom only on speaker phone.

** no covid symptoms that aren't explained by above **

Delay MRI because only one machine avail. MRI is finally done yesterday, late evening nurse says results clear.

In the meantime and why I am writing this novel, kidney issue from a test sometime YESTERDAY MORNING resulted in a delay to consult a urologist.

SOMETIME THIS MORNING urologist ordered a catheter and drained over a liter of urine.

I have questions

1. why did it take a urologist to order a catheter?

2. why were they not alarmed at lack of urine output enough for one of the docs to order the catheter? Were they not monitoring urine output?

3. How can my mom ask the right questions to ensure appropriate treatment while not allowed at the hospital and only participating via speaker phone?
cc_ag92
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Do you mind sharing which hospital system? There might be people on this board who have had experiences with that system which may offer more insight.

Do you think your mother is being assertive in her questioning when she does get to talk to someone? My parents just don't ask enough questions when they go to the doctor. I've started going as often as I can.

I'm sorry y'all are dealing with this. It's terrible to feel so helpless.
88planoAg
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cc_ag92 said:

Do you mind sharing which hospital system? There might be people on this board who have had experiences with that system which may offer more insight.

Do you think your mother is being assertive in her questioning when she does get to talk to someone? My parents just don't ask enough questions when they go to the doctor. I've started going as often as I can.

I'm sorry y'all are dealing with this. It's terrible to feel so helpless.
Thanks for the reply.

Methodist Sugar Land.

My mom gets hella mad but I'm not sure she is concise and coherent when angry. She is fine cognitively and for sure assertive, but needs to know what exactly to say.

I would sure like to know why whatever indicated a problem wasn't followed up by tracking urine output or a catheter. At this point though that is water under the bridge.

He has had an abdominal CT but no one to interpret/no results. So another night on the covid floor.

Yes this is very frustrating. My mom was also symptomatic positive Jan 2. Why she cannot stay with him is a mystery. I also think his positive test is a false positive....
cc_ag92
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I hope you get an answer. I wish I had information that could help.

cbaker20
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I'll admit I'm a little confused. What exactly was the reason for admission? Just that he had a positive test or the accompanying confusion/mental status issues? I'd think that if he were admitted for a procedure but stable and was coincidentally positive but ok, they'd send him home with close follow up.

So he is alone in a room on a Covid ward with no one noticing that he is retaining urine and unable to void? That is horrible.

88planoAg
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cbaker20 said:

I'll admit I'm a little confused. What exactly was the reason for admission? Just that he had a positive test or the accompanying confusion/mental status issues? I'd think that if he were admitted for a procedure but stable and was coincidentally positive but ok, they'd send him home with close follow up.

So he is alone in a room on a Covid ward with no one noticing that he is retaining urine and unable to void? That is horrible.


Confusion is the name of the game here, it is very hard to get a direct answer to anything. Here is what seems to have happened:

He was admitted initially because tests for confusion/weakness weren't completed in ER.

Delay with one MRI machine that will work with him.

Due to admit to hospital he was given the incidental covid test which was positive. Supposedly he has asymptomatic covid but after symptomatic covid Dec 31 plus 2 neg tests I doubt that is accurate. Regardless he was admitted to covid floor.

MRI was finally completed and was clear - much delayed due to emergency room priority (how ironic) and then delay to read results....

but as tends to happen, we are now wack-a-mole with an abnormal test for kidney function which resulted in referral to urologist

no urologist for 24 hours

delay in catheter placement with (apparently) no urine output tracking. As he is alone without an advocate that is what seems to have happened. For sure delay in catheter resulting in urine retention, but ??? why a urologist was needed is unknown.

Further complicated by he is on bed alert for fall risk, has to call for assistance to go to the bathroom, nurse has to gown up because of stupid covid

88planoAg
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Update:

He will be discharged today. Nothing showed up on abdominal CT re: kidneys. Followup outpatient with urologist.

So he spent 5 days 4 nights on covid floor with no covid symptoms and delayed care for other things. Not impressed.

And will be counted as a covid hospitalization, btw.
cbaker20
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My sympathies, I'm sure you and your mom are super frustrated.

Sounds to me like your dad is the victim of staffing issues paired with reluctance to actually enter the room on staff's part. If he is a fall risk and still confused he should *not* be in a room alone with a call button under these circumstances. I would try my luck with speculating on what might happen to him in this situation with the patient advocate or social work and make a case for a one to one sitter in the room for his safety. I question whether your dad is eating or drinking well and this can make confusion worse in elders. Since no one noticed he wasn't urinating I doubt they know much about his intake either. And no, it's not standard practice to call a urologist for a cath, outside of some issues that can complicate placement it's a standard nursing skill.

Ask for a Covid retest if you think it's a false positive. Make the hospital give you a hard answer on why they are putting your dad in a risky situation. If you can't get anywhere, maybe push for a transfer if you can find a receiving facility. Prayers for a resolution for your family. I really hope your dad doesn't come out of this worse off. I still can't believe the lunacy that we are 2 years into this and they won't let family in the room with patients that really need them.

Edit-saw your update right after I posted. Thank god he's going home.

TxAg05
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Sorry about everything you and your family went through. If he had documented COVID in December, there should have been no reason for a retest. Patients who have documented recent positive COVID tests and now no symptoms don't need proof of a negative prior to surgery.
88planoAg
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TxAg05 said:

Sorry about everything you and your family went through. If he had documented COVID in December, there should have been no reason for a retest. Patients who have documented recent positive COVID tests and now no symptoms don't need proof of a negative prior to surgery.
Actually - funny story -

Hospital policy said if before Jan 1 2022 it was assumed to be Delta and he had to be tested for Omicron - if positive it would assumed to be Omicron. Seriously.

Jaw dropping, right?

And his positive test? 930pm New Years Eve. But yep. tested again. And again and again till he tested positive.
moko76
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The best way to determine if a PCR test for COVID is a false positive is to ask what that cycle threshold was.
If it was 35 or above, more likely to be a false negative
If 30 or below, probably real, and the patient has asymptomatic COVID infection

Your fathers case is a typical example of what happens to elderly patients who often cannot hear and have difficulty communicating, and this is compounded by poorly coordinated medical care, and COVID isolation preventing family members from being in the room.

My suggestion is that you and your mom demand in the future daily phone calls with the physician in charge of his care.

Good luck in the future.

BTW, most likely cause of your dads urinary retention is prostate enlargement, which is usually benign

Flomax is a drug that often helps, my guess is this is most likely what the urologist will prescribe if it turns out to be the most likely cause
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88planoAg
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woodlees said:

The best way to determine if a PCR test for COVID is a false positive is to ask what that cycle threshold was.
If it was 35 or above, more likely to be a false negative
If 30 or below, probably real, and the patient has asymptomatic COVID infection

Your fathers case is a typical example of what happens to elderly patients who often cannot hear and have difficulty communicating, and this is compounded by poorly coordinated medical care, and COVID isolation preventing family members from being in the room.

My suggestion is that you and your mom demand in the future daily phone calls with the physician in charge of his care.

Good luck in the future.

BTW, most likely cause of your dads urinary retention is prostate enlargement, which is usually benign

Flomax is a drug that often helps, my guess is this is most likely what the urologist will prescribe if it turns out to be the most likely cause
Thanks for the response.

What do you think of the idea that he had covid again after symptomatic positive Dec 31st? Does it seem reasonable to retest one month later? Does the policy that before Jan 1 it was Delta make sense to you?
Nixter
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Quote:

What do you think of the idea that he had covid again after symptomatic positive Dec 31st? Does it seem reasonable to retest one month later? Does the policy that before Jan 1 it was Delta make sense to you?
I'm not a physician, but 'reasonable' is out the window when it comes to policy.

I had a medical event last year where I went to a curbside ER and then was admitted for a night's stay in a county hospital. The ER tested me for Covid, which was negative. I then was transported to the hospital, and even though it was within a couple of hours of my previous Covid test, the hospital tested me as well. I had no Covid symptoms. I had no exposure to Covid. But policy...
Not a Bot
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I'm a hospital nurse, working on and off Covid floors during the pandemic.

Unfortunately, your experience isn't unique. Care on Covid floors is often needlessly complicated, much of the time performed by contract nurses who work a lot of hours and who are not very invested in the local hospital. We had to weed through several who had no idea what they were doing. That's not to say all contract nurses are bad, as some of the best nurses I've ever worked with were working contracts, but it's a crapshoot.

There's also been a huge braindrain problem with older nurses leaving and experienced nurses going to work contracts, so in some places more care than ever is being performed by nurses with less than 2 years of experience, many of whom had their orientation and nursing clinical hours screwed up by the pandemic. It's dangerous to be in the hospital right now.

Combine all of that with isolation precautions and you have patients who just aren't being thoroughly assessed.

Quote:


1. why did it take a urologist to order a catheter?

2. why were they not alarmed at lack of urine output enough for one of the docs to order the catheter? Were they not monitoring urine output?

3. How can my mom ask the right questions to ensure appropriate treatment while not allowed at the hospital and only participating via speaker phone?

1. You don't need a urologist to order a catheter. Without seeing his chart, I have no idea why they waited for a urologist to order one. It's possible they didn't notice he was retaining until the urologist assessed him or they may have noted retention but were concerned about a difficult insertion. If it was just lab work that was off, not sure why they felt the need to consult urology and not nephrology. There's probably a piece of the story missing here.

2. Accurate I/O is a very important part of hospital nursing, especially in older adults. Urinary retention isn't that difficult to spot by a decent nurse, all it takes is someone paying attention to intake vs output or other symptoms like discomfort, frequent urination, etc. Assess your patient and do a bedside bladder scan. It's portable, non-invasive and does not require an MD order. However, there are people who retain yet still make urine and may not have significant symptoms. The I/O may have been lost in the shuffle or he may have been producing just enough where no one thought anything of it.

3. I know he's discharged now but posting this for others if needed. In my experience, the best way to get needs addressed with nurses is to be polite but thorough. Ask about plan of care, including lab results, scan results, new meds, therapy, etc. Best time to call from a nursing standpoint is going to be around 1030-11am or from 1-3. Going to be difficult to get anyone on the line at 7a/7p shift change or during 9a/9p med passes. Ask that the MD call when they round. They won't be able to give you a specific time, but make sure the nurses know the doctor needs to call family.

Make sure you've got him signed up for MyChart or whatever system Methodist uses. You should be able to see the MD notes and labs.
88planoAg
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Thanks very much. He is on My Chart, but my parents find that frustrating to use.

Your post is sad and scary - he was hospitalized in the fall at the same hospital (not covid) and we were reasonably happy with his care. But I stayed overnights and my mom stayed days. That to me is the biggest difference and VERY frustrating.
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