NPIs still helped get us to a vaccine. Post vaccine they were worthless. The truth is we never had lockdowns even though that's a buzz word. But if two people never cross paths there isn't a transmission of the virus. Therefore NPIS had to have an impact on hospitalizations and deaths unless everybody caught the disease anyways (pre-vaccine).

I also think people aren't appreciating the level of uncertainty we had at many different points. Things are pretty certain now which is why NPIs are worthless now. That doesn't mean we can treat the next pandemic necessarily the same way we did this one. What if there's a virus that has an incubation of 2 weeks and a 100% hospitalization rate and as transmissible as omicron. It's purely hypothetical, but it certainly means we can't ignore that like it's nothing. We need a sliding scale/dynamic response.

Ultimately I'm glad that we aren't going the China route. I just wish we were more like Denmark or Norway - high vaccination rates, low hospitalization burden, NPIs when they made sense, but remove ALL NPIs when it's clear there's no value anymore.

Gordo14 said:

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NPIs still helped get us to a vaccine. Post vaccine they were worthless. The truth is we never had lockdowns even though that's a buzz word. But if two people never cross paths there isn't a transmission of the virus. Therefore NPIS had to have an impact on hospitalizations and deaths unless everybody caught the disease anyways (pre-vaccine).
.

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This is true on a 1 to 1 basis and why anyone who felt like they wanted to stay home or wear an n95 mask all the time had better odds of avoiding it, but there really isn't any proof NPIs helped on a macro level, pre or post vaccine. Obviously there are a ton of factors (population density, seasonality, age/health demographics, etc) but even just comparing Florida to CA pre vaccine would tell you that there wasn't really a difference in cases and deaths despite two dramatically different approaches at a macro level.

I do agree there was a lot unknown in the first few weeks and understand the need for them at that point, but once we knew the survival rates and who it impacted it made no sense. We just made a bad situation worse.

Lock downs did nothing except kill jobs. Our real scientists knew this from the beginning, we never followed our own set protocols for a low death rate air born virus. It became 100% political which is sad news and dumb.

Even today we cannot get the correct numbers reported for died from Covid V's just died with Covid. We can't get hospitalized because of Covid vs in hospital and happened to be infected. It's crazy what's been going on.

amercer said:

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The Chinese method absolutely worked. The proof is that they are still terrified of Covid. If it had actually rampaged the country they wouldn't be still locking cities of 15 million people down when they find 10 cases. They wouldn't be having a bubble Olympics either.

They absolutely covered up **** at the beginning in Wuhan. But all of their actions afterwards point to them truly controlling the spread via harsh repression.

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Lol. Who are you actually talking to in China? I know of one city that tested x million people and got back x million negatives within a matter of days. Impossible on so many levels. Not at liberty to discuss specifics...

amercer said:

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The Chinese method absolutely worked. The proof is that they are still terrified of Covid. If it had actually rampaged the country they wouldn't be still locking cities of 15 million people down when they find 10 cases. They wouldn't be having a bubble Olympics either.

They absolutely covered up **** at the beginning in Wuhan. But all of their actions afterwards point to them truly controlling the spread via harsh repression.

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Are you ****ing serious? You can't be, right? Tell me you're smarter than this

Gordo14 said:

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NPIs still helped get us to a vaccine. Post vaccine they were worthless. The truth is we never had lockdowns even though that's a buzz word. But if two people never cross paths there isn't a transmission of the virus. Therefore NPIS had to have an impact on hospitalizations and deaths unless everybody caught the disease anyways (pre-vaccine).

I also think people aren't appreciating the level of uncertainty we had at many different points. Things are pretty certain now which is why NPIs are worthless now. That doesn't mean we can treat the next pandemic necessarily the same way we did this one. What if there's a virus that has an incubation of 2 weeks and a 100% hospitalization rate and as transmissible as omicron. It's purely hypothetical, but it certainly means we can't ignore that like it's nothing. We need a sliding scale/dynamic response.

Ultimately I'm glad that we aren't going the China route. I just wish we were more like Denmark or Norway - high vaccination rates, low hospitalization burden, NPIs when they made sense, but remove ALL NPIs when it's clear there's no value anymore.

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No they didn't. That's what's indicated in the paper if you actually read it. And they also compare the intensity of the lock downs vs shelter in place vs NPIs. None of it made a worthwhile difference, and in some cases the measures INCREASED the covid rates and hospitalizations.

This was never the longstanding protocol for a flu-like pandemic and the world decided to play God and it backfired horrible with many negative affects and increased deaths that will be felt for decades.

NASAg03 said:

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Gordo14 said:

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NPIs still helped get us to a vaccine. Post vaccine they were worthless. The truth is we never had lockdowns even though that's a buzz word. But if two people never cross paths there isn't a transmission of the virus. Therefore NPIS had to have an impact on hospitalizations and deaths unless everybody caught the disease anyways (pre-vaccine).

I also think people aren't appreciating the level of uncertainty we had at many different points. Things are pretty certain now which is why NPIs are worthless now. That doesn't mean we can treat the next pandemic necessarily the same way we did this one. What if there's a virus that has an incubation of 2 weeks and a 100% hospitalization rate and as transmissible as omicron. It's purely hypothetical, but it certainly means we can't ignore that like it's nothing. We need a sliding scale/dynamic response.

Ultimately I'm glad that we aren't going the China route. I just wish we were more like Denmark or Norway - high vaccination rates, low hospitalization burden, NPIs when they made sense, but remove ALL NPIs when it's clear there's no value anymore.

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No they didn't. That's what's indicated in the paper if you actually read it. And they also compare the intensity of the lock downs vs shelter in place vs NPIs. None of it made a worthwhile difference, and I'm some cases the measures INCREASED the covid rates and hospitalizations.

This was never the longstanding protocol for a flu-like pandemic and the world decided to play God and it backfired horrible with affects and increased deaths that will be felt for decades.

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Agreed. Claiming NPIs worked is really an IQ test at this point.

GAC06 said:

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https://nbc25news.com/amp/news/nation-world/study-says-covid-19-lockdowns-in-us-and-europe-had-little-to-no-public-health-impact

But they certainly did a lot of harm.

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Some who followed knew this long long ago… but carry on as normal, I assume a lot more data along this front will be making its way soon

Gordo14 said:

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NPIs still helped get us to a vaccine. Post vaccine they were worthless. The truth is we never had lockdowns even though that's a buzz word. But if two people never cross paths there isn't a transmission of the virus. Therefore NPIS had to have an impact on hospitalizations and deaths unless everybody caught the disease anyways (pre-vaccine).

I also think people aren't appreciating the level of uncertainty we had at many different points. Things are pretty certain now which is why NPIs are worthless now. That doesn't mean we can treat the next pandemic necessarily the same way we did this one. What if there's a virus that has an incubation of 2 weeks and a 100% hospitalization rate and as transmissible as omicron. It's purely hypothetical, but it certainly means we can't ignore that like it's nothing. We need a sliding scale/dynamic response.

Ultimately I'm glad that we aren't going the China route. I just wish we were more like Denmark or Norway - high vaccination rates, low hospitalization burden, NPIs when they made sense, but remove ALL NPIs when it's clear there's no value anymore.

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No. There's little evidence to suggest npis made any drastic difference, other than harm.

Masks don't work now and didn't work then
Social distancing doesn't seem to matter
Those plastic dividers made things worse

One thing that did work- those arrows made out of duct tape on the floors at grocery stores. Those saved countless lives.

In exchange for these ineffective npis we got a supremely fractured society, a broken economy, decades high inflation, a 300-400% increase in speech delays among children, all time high in drug and alcohol overdose deaths, more suicides and so on.
All for a disease that 99% of people would survive if they contracted. Npis might have worked if we would have focused them on those who were most vulnerable. But we didn't.

amercer said:

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The Chinese method absolutely worked. The proof is that they are still terrified of Covid. If it had actually rampaged the country they wouldn't be still locking cities of 15 million people down when they find 10 cases. They wouldn't be having a bubble Olympics either.

They absolutely covered up **** at the beginning in Wuhan. But all of their actions afterwards point to them truly controlling the spread via harsh repression.

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What proof do you have of this? If China can control a very communicable virus from spreading among 1.4 billions citizens better than anyone in the world, then they can just as well control the narrative via government-controlled media and digital limits on their population. That can much more be easily done a central locations (media stations, cell towers, etc) than going to 1.4 billion house-holds and administering covid tests and boarding up doors and windows.

And yes China has a huge incentive to lie about their method, the results, and to maintain a good economy. The higher prices go everywhere else in the world, the more money they make if their economy and production is least impacted. That's not conspiracy theory, that's fact. And it's exactly what is happening. And it's one of the reasons I'm boycotting the Olympics.

Completely illogical to believe that a virus initiated in China, very quickly spread to the rest of the world, but somehow did not spread throughout the rest of China, all while global commerce from China continued. No way. Bogus information.

Lockdowns were incredibly effective at what they were intended for.

Gordo14 said:

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NPIs still helped get us to a vaccine. Post vaccine they were worthless. The truth is we never had lockdowns even though that's a buzz word. But if two people never cross paths there isn't a transmission of the virus. Therefore NPIS had to have an impact on hospitalizations and deaths unless everybody caught the disease anyways (pre-vaccine).

I also think people aren't appreciating the level of uncertainty we had at many different points. Things are pretty certain now which is why NPIs are worthless now. That doesn't mean we can treat the next pandemic necessarily the same way we did this one. What if there's a virus that has an incubation of 2 weeks and a 100% hospitalization rate and as transmissible as omicron. It's purely hypothetical, but it certainly means we can't ignore that like it's nothing. We need a sliding scale/dynamic response.

Ultimately I'm glad that we aren't going the China route. I just wish we were more like Denmark or Norway - high vaccination rates, low hospitalization burden, NPIs when they made sense, but remove ALL NPIs when it's clear there's no value anymore.

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NPI's didn't help. Read the study.

All lockdowns did was destroy businesses. Nothing else.