or, what have you seen/experienced. Just curious.

Thanks for the replies.

swc93 said:

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SUag said:

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What are the risks of a serious negative health outcome if you get covid without any vaccine protection?

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Lost a cousin, age 40 unvaccinated, heart attack 6 months after covid. No previous heart problems.

Covid cause it? Who knows but I doubt it helped.

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This summer my wife's 75 year old uncle (unvaxxed) died of a stroke less than a week after getting out of the hospital with covid.

No previous serious health issues.

Well. The problem is that this study lumps all myocarditis events into one big bucket. The harder thing to figure out is whether the age cohort relative risk charts look the same. In other words, is all of that COVID the same for everyone? We know the myocarditis shot risk is more concentrated in young men.

Zobel said:

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Yes. The study she was referring to was exclusively looking at vaccinated people. Fake news strikes again.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-walensky-study-idUSL1N2TS0S2

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Ok - what is the data for the unvaccinated? How many comorbidities for them?

cc_ag92 said:

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FlyRod said:

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https://www.heart.org/en/news/2020/09/03/what-covid-19-is-doing-to-the-heart-even-after-recovery

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A long-time friend (Class of 1992) died yesterday from a heart attack. He was in great shape, 51 years old, and had recently recovered from his second round of Covid. The ER doctor said he had seen several "young" heart attacks recently in healthy men who had recovered from Covid. They're performing an autopsy. Is there any way to measure the possible impact Covid may have had on his heart?

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Were either bouts particularly difficult or were his symptoms mild across the board?

PJYoung said:

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Woods Ag said:

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Avg comorbitities is 4+ in people that died… is that fake news?

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Yes it is.

Certain people like Clay Travis edited the clip to make it appear that she was talking about all covid deaths instead of vaccinated deaths.

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What's the data on unvaccinated? How many comorbidities for them? How many deaths with zero comorbidities?

cc_ag92 said:

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Is there any way to measure the possible impact Covid may have had on his heart?

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Not really. There's no real way to isolate two COVID infections from 51 years of other environmental, genetic, and physiologic factors. The COVID infections may correlate with the infarct but causation is much more difficult to measure and prove.

Maybe a pathologist or cardiologist could comment.

ChrisTAMU said:

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Zobel said:

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No idea. Sounds like something you could find out and share.

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I'm sure the CDC is very transparent with that information.

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Give this a shot, see what you can come up with: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

SUag said:

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What are the risks of a serious negative health outcome if you get covid without any vaccine protection?

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Do you know anyone who hasn't had COVID yet? Like confirmed by an antibody test?

Quote:

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I also find it interesting that the "but Myocarditis" from the vaccine crowd is largely the same crowd that downplayed Myocarditis when the Big Ten said they were going to cancel football over it. Just an observation.

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When both sides of an argument are full of ****, the next step is looking at which side(s) has the power to influence people and politics and if trade offs are examined/validated.

FlyRod said:

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A growing number of medical researchers are realizing and discussing Covid as a vascular disease vs. just a respiratory virus; it goes after blood vessels, hence all the weird multi-organ things happening--heart issues yes, but also blood clots, strokes, "long Covid," and of course most infamously damaging the blood rich lungs.

If you've tested positive and even if you feel ok, might be worth scheduling a visit with your doctor down the road to assess organ health (and I fully admit I don't know what range of tests would be appropriate).

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So if everyone is going to get covid eventually, everyone should get tested?
More test and more reliance on medical professionals more followup doctor visits and more medical tests 'just in case' and probably more reliance on prescription medication.

I hate to come across so cynical but who is paying for all of this and is it worth the cost?

I'd say its higher than people think. I lost my father almost a year ago less than a week after his 2nd shot to a heart attack. He had recently been to his cardiologist a few months prior and had a clean bill of health. I also have to point a finger at ER incompetence in my case, but I don't find it coincidental.

The most recent case was mild. The first case was not, but he wasn't hospitalized.

I don't disagree with your concerns, and wish I had a good answer for you. I guess the best I can come up with is maybe early tests, whatever their costs, would help prevent the need for later more costly treatment for disability.

tysker said:

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FlyRod said:

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A growing number of medical researchers are realizing and discussing Covid as a vascular disease vs. just a respiratory virus; it goes after blood vessels, hence all the weird multi-organ things happening--heart issues yes, but also blood clots, strokes, "long Covid," and of course most infamously damaging the blood rich lungs.

If you've tested positive and even if you feel ok, might be worth scheduling a visit with your doctor down the road to assess organ health (and I fully admit I don't know what range of tests would be appropriate).

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So if everyone is going to get covid eventually, everyone should get tested?
More test and more reliance on medical professionals more followup doctor visits and more medical tests 'just in case' and probably more reliance on prescription medication.

I hate to come across so cynical but who is paying for all of this and is it worth the cost?

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BREAKING: The Supreme Court BLOCKS the federal government's COVID-19 vaccine-or-test requirement for large workplaces. The court ALLOWS a vaccine mandate for workers at federally funded health care facilities to take effect nationwide.

— SCOTUSblog (@SCOTUSblog) January 13, 2022

Breyer, Sotomayor, & Kagan dissent from the decision to block the vax-or-test rule for workplaces of 100 or more employees.

Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, & Barrett dissent from the decision to allow the health care vaccine mandate to take effect nationwide.

— SCOTUSblog (@SCOTUSblog) January 13, 2022

tysker said:

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FlyRod said:

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A growing number of medical researchers are realizing and discussing Covid as a vascular disease vs. just a respiratory virus; it goes after blood vessels, hence all the weird multi-organ things happening--heart issues yes, but also blood clots, strokes, "long Covid," and of course most infamously damaging the blood rich lungs.

If you've tested positive and even if you feel ok, might be worth scheduling a visit with your doctor down the road to assess organ health (and I fully admit I don't know what range of tests would be appropriate).

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So if everyone is going to get covid eventually, everyone should get tested?
More test and more reliance on medical professionals more followup doctor visits and more medical tests 'just in case' and probably more reliance on prescription medication.

I hate to come across so cynical but who is paying for all of this and is it worth the cost?

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Modern medicine has a lot of limitations that people don't realize. Ordering blanket labs and imaging on more and more people just to go searching for something will eventually lead to finding things. The problem is that in otherwise healthy people, more often than not you start finding things of no clinical significance, or you get false positives. Those false positives need to be investigated, and can sometimes lead to procedures and treatments that end up causing harm.

Certain things have been proven by evidence to be worth starting to check at a certain age. For example, screening for colon cancer at age 50 will yield the most lives saved with the least missed cases. But there are still people that will get colon cancer in their 20's. Same with mammograms and breast cancer. We can't start doing mammograms in everyone in their 20's to catch the rarest of the rarest early cancer, because eventually we'll start causing cancer, or biopsying unnecessary lumps found on mammogram.

And, if you're going to go into your doctor "just to be safe" for everything, the doctor has to either accept all liability for a missed diagnosis, or order the tests to rule out bad stuff. The way things are going, they're not going to accept the liability.