10% of kids have heart problems?

4,228 Views | 19 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by PerpetualLurker
The Fife
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7:57a, 12/8/21
Parents are visiting and the topic of kids and vaccines came up. Leaving out the details, my dad who used to teach epidemiology kept going on about how 10% of kids who catch covid end up with heart problems. I tried looking it up to verify his claim but didn't really come up with much beyond what looked like a preliminary or small sample study several months ago.

I'm highly skeptical of his claim because I feel like 10% is a high enough percentage that it would've been all over the news, or at least easier to verify somehow. Is there any truth to what he's saying?
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KidDoc
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8:05a, 12/8/21
AG
More like 10:100,000 get myocarditis, the mRNA vaccines in young men cause it about 1:100,000.

He is talking about a very early study in college athletes showing myocardial dysfunction by echo. It is why Big10 initially suspended their entire season. Follow-up studies have not held up that data and heart inflammation is rare with COVID and everything else.

I've looked for actual data on this multiple times and it doesn't seem to exist at this time.
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TarponChaser
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In reply to KidDoc • 8:43a, 12/8/21
KidDoc said:
More like 10:100,000 get myocarditis, the mRNA vaccines in young men cause it about 1:100,000.

He is talking about a very early study in college athletes showing myocardial dysfunction by echo. It is why Big10 initially suspended their entire season. Follow-up studies have not held up that data and heart inflammation is rare with COVID and everything else.

I've looked for actual data on this multiple times and it doesn't seem to exist at this time.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the study the Big10 used wasn't of college athletes but one where the median age was 49.
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KidDoc
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In reply to TarponChaser • 8:58a, 12/8/21
AG
Edit: and you are correct!

Took me a few tries to find the old study!

Big Ten Medical Report Details Serious Cardiovascular Concerns From Experts - Sports Illustrated Indiana Hoosiers News, Analysis and More
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Wakesurfer817
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In reply to KidDoc • 9:12a, 12/8/21
I remember early, early on, there was an ER doc in Spain who documented his experience with COVID on Twitter. He was one of the early ones to notice loss of smell and taste.

Interestingly, after fully recovering and returning to work, he decided to do an ultrasound of his heart. IIRC, he had no symptoms, rather just ran an experiment. He discovered that he had a bit of pericarditis. I think he also noted that scarring to his lungs (minimal) was evident for quite a while after he recovered - again, without symptoms.

I would guess all of this is possible after a bad bout of the flu, or any other respiratory virus - we just don't look for it?
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KidDoc
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In reply to Wakesurfer817 • 9:14a, 12/8/21
AG
Yes I think that is highly likely.
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The Fife
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In reply to KidDoc • 10:22a, 12/8/21
Thank you, I appreciate it. I didn't mention it earlier but my brother died in his early 30s due to complications from Kawasaki's disease that first showed itself with a heart attack in 8th grade. I'm of the opinion that he's overly sensitive to things like this because of it, and that's why he reacted so negatively and strongly to my answer when he asked about getting my 5 year old shots.

My response was just middle of the road - the little guy's risk is very low as-is and I want to make sure we're not trading a low risk for an equal or higher one and that it doesn't seem entirely clear yet. To him apparently that makes someone an anti-vaxxer.

edit: I really don't plan on debating the guy because there's no point, just curious on the odd chance that he was right and that my skills with The Google-Bing were somehow bad.
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Teslag
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In reply to KidDoc • 10:43a, 12/8/21
AG
KidDoc said:
More like 10:100,000 get myocarditis, the mRNA vaccines in young men cause it about 1:100,000.

He is talking about a very early study in college athletes showing myocardial dysfunction by echo. It is why Big10 initially suspended their entire season. Follow-up studies have not held up that data and heart inflammation is rare with COVID and everything else.

I've looked for actual data on this multiple times and it doesn't seem to exist at this time.

Aren't most of those mild cases of myocarditis at that?
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Another Doug
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10:45a, 12/8/21
AG
Sucks to have a disagreement on your parenting with your dad and cant fault him for caring, but sounds like you have listened to him, looked into it and made an informed decision. Not much more he could ask of you.
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KidDoc
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In reply to Teslag • 10:48a, 12/8/21
AG
Salute The Marines said:
KidDoc said:
More like 10:100,000 get myocarditis, the mRNA vaccines in young men cause it about 1:100,000.

He is talking about a very early study in college athletes showing myocardial dysfunction by echo. It is why Big10 initially suspended their entire season. Follow-up studies have not held up that data and heart inflammation is rare with COVID and everything else.

I've looked for actual data on this multiple times and it doesn't seem to exist at this time.

Aren't most of those mild cases of myocarditis at that?
Yes but you don't want even mild myocarditis to be honest.
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bigtruckguy3500
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3:09p, 12/10/21
Kiddoc, I have a friend who got his 11 year old the COVID shot. He developed costochondritis within 12 hours, that has persisted 8 days in so far.

Cardiac workup negative, seems to be very reproducible with palpation. He's on ibuprofen TID with some improvement.

Have you seen this at all? I've seen someone develop pain at an old wrist fracture site in the same arm they got the vaccine in, but haven't seen costochondritis.

I suggested looking into topical analgesics, and maybe a steroid burst if if doesn't go away in a couple weeks. Any other thoughts?
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KidDoc
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 3:49p, 12/10/21
AG
I haven't personally seen it but costochondritis is pretty common in general in teens with a variety of viral infections. I would go ahead and run a steroid course now as the risk vs benefit is heavily in potential benefit category. I would also delay the 2nd dose for several months to let his immune system chill out.
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dubberage
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4:06p, 12/21/21
https://www.wsj.com/articles/dangerous-push-to-give-boosters-to-teens-vacccine-covid-19-omicron-vaxx-requirement-mandate-11640107759?mod=hp_opin_pos_2#cxrecs_s

Sorry if this doesn't post correctly but WSJ article from today. The risk of heart issues from boosters in teens is higher than risk of serious complications from Covid. Reason I am not getting boosters for my teenagers and me either.
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KidDoc
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In reply to dubberage • 5:13p, 12/21/21
AG
dubberage said:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/dangerous-push-to-give-boosters-to-teens-vacccine-covid-19-omicron-vaxx-requirement-mandate-11640107759?mod=hp_opin_pos_2#cxrecs_s

Sorry if this doesn't post correctly but WSJ article from today. The risk of heart issues from boosters in teens is higher than risk of serious complications from Covid. Reason I am not getting boosters for my teenagers and me either.
Fantastic article thanks for sharing.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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TombstoneTex
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7:15p, 1/2/22
AG
This seems to be the most relevant thread to post this on. Struggling with the decision to vax my 5 year old son or not. Really hard to find real risk/reward information online.

Can anyone chime in with some real discussion or possibly links to help us decide?

At this point, with him going back to school tomorrow, is it too late anyway?

Not an anti-Vaxer. My wife is pregnant and has been boosted. I have two doses of Moderna but am not getting boosted because of heart palpitations during workouts after the second dose.
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Dad
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In reply to TombstoneTex • 7:27p, 1/2/22
AG
HYC_AG said:
This seems to be the most relevant thread to post this on. Struggling with the decision to vax my 5 year old son or not. Really hard to find real risk/reward information online.

Can anyone chime in with some real discussion or possibly links to help us decide?

At this point, with him going back to school tomorrow, is it too late anyway?

Not an anti-Vaxer. My wife is pregnant and has been boosted. I have two doses of Moderna but am not getting boosted because of heart palpitations during workouts after the second dose.

Re-read your post. Safe vaccines don't cause all of the problems that have occurred with this particular vaccine. It also doesn't stop infection or spreading of the virus.

On top of that most 5 year olds have very minimal symptoms with actual Covid and then they have superior protection compared to this out of date vaccine.
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TombstoneTex
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In reply to Dad • 7:41p, 1/2/22
AG
Thanks for your thoughts. All reasons we are really struggling with the decision.
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Coates
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In reply to TombstoneTex • 7:44p, 1/2/22
My 4.5 year had a fever for 12 hours, the quarantine for a few days after was the only bad part. Only got him tested because we had a neighbor with a free at home test.
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94chem
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In reply to KidDoc • 7:53p, 1/2/22
KidDoc said:
dubberage said:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/dangerous-push-to-give-boosters-to-teens-vacccine-covid-19-omicron-vaxx-requirement-mandate-11640107759?mod=hp_opin_pos_2#cxrecs_s

Sorry if this doesn't post correctly but WSJ article from today. The risk of heart issues from boosters in teens is higher than risk of serious complications from Covid. Reason I am not getting boosters for my teenagers and me either.
Fantastic article thanks for sharing.


Ditto. The first paragraph was good. But I don't have a subscription to every newspaper in the world. My 17 year old is getting her booster tomorrow. Oh well, she had a good run.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
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PerpetualLurker
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In reply to TombstoneTex • 7:54p, 1/2/22
Not a doctor. But Paul Offit is. He seems about as qualified as you can get - he's on the FDA advisory board, for instance.

Here are his thoughts from November:
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