74% of people over the age of 5 have been vaccinated.

You have to think at least 33% of the unvaccinated have prior infection which puts us around 90% vaccinated or previously infected.

All this talk about the unvaccinated, you couldn't get 82% of adults to eat free ice cream. The population of unvaccinated with no prior infection can't be so large that it's the root of all problems in the US.

Is it leaky vaccines? Or is the unboosted that are the problem?

Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

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How can you possibly make that assertion? I just attended the memorial service for a 65 year old retired Marine who died of Covid. Try telling him and his family that "it's already over".

Get Off My Lawn said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

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You are correct. Its been over most of us for awhile.

Where are you seeing these numbers?

Jabin said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

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How can you possibly make that assertion? I just attended the memorial service for a 65 year old retired Marine who died of Covid. Try telling him and his family that "it's already over".

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Genuinely sorry about your friend but I'm also no going to alter my life because of it. People die every day of all ages. It's the only guarantee we have in life. Covid is over in the sense that people can and should go back to normal. Some of us have been as normal as possible since the beginning. If I were to lose someone to Covid I would celebrate them at their funeral, cry with their loved ones, and move on just like if I were to lose someone to cancer, or a car wreck, or old age.

It's over in that sense if we would let it be over.

DCAggie13y said:

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74% of people over the age of 5 have been vaccinated.

You have to think at least 33% of the unvaccinated have prior infection which puts us around 90% vaccinated or previously infected.

All this talk about the unvaccinated, you couldn't get 82% of adults to eat free ice cream. The population of unvaccinated with no prior infection can't be so large that it's the root of all problems in the US.

Is it leaky vaccines? Or is the unboosted that are the problem?

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I don't think your numbers are correct.

I just did a quick check online (https://globalepidemics.org/vaccines-2/), and I believe roughly 70% of the population of 18 has gotten both vaccines. I think you are correct that roughly 82% has gotten at least one dose though.

I don't think you can say "you have to think at least 33% of the unvaccinated have prior infection," because people have been saying that for the past year. That's a complete assumption. I could just as easily put that number at 5%, or 50%.

We've seen that the vaccine isn't 100%, and from day 1 the CDC even said that they don't know if the vaccine prevents COVID or it just keeps you from developing symptoms. Seems to be more of the latter. And even though the vaccine trial size was quite large, efficacy from the studies doesn't translate into effectiveness directly. The majority of deaths are shifting towards the unvaccinated, and the majority of those requiring significant interventions/hospitalization are unvaccinated. So, I'd say when it comes to hospital demand, the unvaccinated are likely the biggest factor.

Regarding getting boosted, I think in certain demographics it makes more sense. Elderly, immunocompromised, diabetics, asthmatics, etc. should probably get it. Others are probably consider it at some point in the future.

Further, we still don't know how long vaccine mediated, or natural infection mediated, immunity lasts to the original strain, let alone to changing strains. So we can't say for certain if it's a "leaky vaccine" or if it's an evolving strain.

Jabin said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

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How can you possibly make that assertion? I just attended the memorial service for a 65 year old retired Marine who died of Covid. Try telling him and his family that "it's already over".

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Was he vaccinated? If so than this will never end and we have to just go back to normal like most of us already have.

It will never not be a threat. Just like the flu, car wrecks, drowning, cancer, suicide, etc.

If your criteria is no deaths then it will never be over. Ever.

Death sucks. It's a part of life though. Can't live life afraid to die or you will never actually live.

Jabin said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

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How can you possibly make that assertion? I just attended the memorial service for a 65 year old retired Marine who died of Covid. Try telling him and his family that "it's already over".

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People die every day in tragic ways. And it's terrible. It sucks. We had a neighbor die this summer from Covid who I miss. But we've all now had access and time to eliminate the "novel" element from our lives if we wanted to. And there is no "post COVID" world coming. It's not going back in the bottle.

It's past due for us to move to a place where we view it as endemic and move past the reactive/scared stage. The era of Covid (tailoring actions to the perceived threat) is over if you choose for it to be.

Jabin said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

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How can you possibly make that assertion? I just attended the memorial service for a 65 year old retired Marine who died of Covid. Try telling him and his family that "it's already over".

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I'll also note that the fact that folks are attending funerals again is itself evidence to some parts of Covid being over. That stage (not being able to gather to mourn and remember and celebrate) really sucked.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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DCAggie13y said:

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74% of people over the age of 5 have been vaccinated.

You have to think at least 33% of the unvaccinated have prior infection which puts us around 90% vaccinated or previously infected.

All this talk about the unvaccinated, you couldn't get 82% of adults to eat free ice cream. The population of unvaccinated with no prior infection can't be so large that it's the root of all problems in the US.

Is it leaky vaccines? Or is the unboosted that are the problem?

---

I don't think your numbers are correct.

I just did a quick check online (https://globalepidemics.org/vaccines-2/), and I believe roughly 70% of the population of 18 has gotten both vaccines. I think you are correct that roughly 82% has gotten at least one dose though.

I don't think you can say "you have to think at least 33% of the unvaccinated have prior infection," because people have been saying that for the past year. That's a complete assumption. I could just as easily put that number at 5%, or 50%.

We've seen that the vaccine isn't 100%, and from day 1 the CDC even said that they don't know if the vaccine prevents COVID or it just keeps you from developing symptoms. Seems to be more of the latter. And even though the vaccine trial size was quite large, efficacy from the studies doesn't translate into effectiveness directly. The majority of deaths are shifting towards the unvaccinated, and the majority of those requiring significant interventions/hospitalization are unvaccinated. So, I'd say when it comes to hospital demand, the unvaccinated are likely the biggest factor.

Regarding getting boosted, I think in certain demographics it makes more sense. Elderly, immunocompromised, diabetics, asthmatics, etc. should probably get it. Others are probably consider it at some point in the future.

Further, we still don't know how long vaccine mediated, or natural infection mediated, immunity lasts to the original strain, let alone to changing strains. So we can't say for certain if it's a "leaky vaccine" or if it's an evolving strain.

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We have ~50 Million confirmed cases in the US and we know for a period of time that at least half of the infections were not being counted so I assumed ~33% of the population has been infected which is probably on the low end. The number definitely isn't 5% since the total number of confirmed cases is 3 times that.

It does seem that with all the rapidly emerging variants that the vaccine approach to immunity will not create herd immunity just like it doesn't create immunity to the flu. Perhaps that is why we have never had an effective vaccine for a coronavirus. They just mutate too quickly.

Ok thanks! So that means ~94% of all adults either have been vaccinated, at least one shot, or infected. So this idea that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, at least in the US, is absolute nonsense.

It may be a pandemic of an ineffective or rapidly waning vaccine because if that vaccine really worked to limit the spread this thing would have been over months ago.

People die. Regardless of what we as a modern society believe, we will die.

Mark Fairchild said:

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People die. Regardless of what we as a modern society believe, we will die.

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Thanks for pointing that out. I must somehow have overlooked that.

Again, that is not at all what the discussion was about, but thanks anyhow for your philosophical point.

Jabin said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

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How can you possibly make that assertion? I just attended the memorial service for a 65 year old retired Marine who died of Covid. Try telling him and his family that "it's already over".

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Any loss of life is terrible, especially due to anything other than being 90 years old. Although much less, some people will die of covid 15 years from now. Will it not be over then, if you happen to know one of them?

When people say it's over, they mean from a behavioral standpoint. At this point, there's no reason why people should be required to alter their behavior to protect others any more. One can argue we should have never been made to do so, but that's a different point, and either way, it's especially true now.

The data on how to protect yourself is on the table. Use it or don't.

Jabin said:

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Mark Fairchild said:

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People die. Regardless of what we as a modern society believe, we will die.

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Thanks for pointing that out. I must somehow have overlooked that.

Again, that is not at all what the discussion was about, but thanks anyhow for your philosophical point.

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Yeah, it actually is exactly what it's about with regards to the original person you were responding to with regards to what "over" means.

No one is saying it's over in that no one will ever die of covid again.

When that poster said it's over, he means in in the sense that no one should be required to act or do anything differently now than in 2019. And to many, they have made that choice to do so in any and every situation they can. Short of airports requiring masks, I can't think of anything else that's different for me. So yeah, it's "over" from that standpoint. Covid itself is here until the end of time.

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Covid itself is here until the end of time.

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I'm not sure that's true and there doesn't seem to be any data to support that, at least with regard to Covid in its present status.

The Spanish flu hasn't been with us since 1918, at least not in its original form.

Covid may very well mutate to become no more dangerous than the common cold.

We just don't know and leaping to conclusions isn't helpful.

You or someone else compared the danger of Covid to the danger of car wrecks. Well, car wrecks aren't "over" by any stretch of the imagination. And, because of their threat, we all take reasonable precautions to avoid them and to minimize their harm if we are unable to avoid them.

Covid is not a binary issue - where you either deny its existence or threat, or you go to the other extreme and mandate shutdowns, vaccinations, etc. There's lots of room in between for rational people to make rational decisions.

Jabin said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

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How can you possibly make that assertion? I just attended the memorial service for a 65 year old retired Marine who died of Covid. Try telling him and his family that "it's already over".

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With all due respect, people die from the flu and various other viruses too. It's terrible but not worthy of creating public policy over it at this point or the need to make individuals feel guilty for moving on with their lives from Covid. Most of us have. Masks are thrown away. We got the vaccine IF we wanted it and mask IF we decide to and life is "post covid" for the vast majority of us.

His family might actually agree with this sentiment, I do not know. But to expect a continued level of mitigation at this point is beyond reason. Covid is here to stay in some form.

beerad12man said:

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Jabin said:

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Mark Fairchild said:

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People die. Regardless of what we as a modern society believe, we will die.

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Thanks for pointing that out. I must somehow have overlooked that.

Again, that is not at all what the discussion was about, but thanks anyhow for your philosophical point.

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Yeah, it actually is exactly what it's about with regards to the original person you were responding to with regards to what "over" means.

No one is saying it's over in that no one will ever die of covid again.

When that poster said it's over, he means in in the sense that no one should be required to act or do anything differently now than in 2019. And to many, they have made that choice to do so in any and every situation they can. Short of airports requiring masks, I can't think of anything else that's different for me. So yeah, it's "over" from that standpoint. Covid itself is here until the end of time.

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Great points! It's time for airports to drop the mask mandates as well. Way past time.

Jabin said:

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coolerguy12 said:

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Jabin said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid or transmitting it, apparently, so herd immunity may not be possible until everyone gets infected, and maybe not even then. Probably covid will mutate over time and become less deadly and then it will be over.

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For everyone not working in a covid unit, it's already over. You just have to stop living differently than you did before.

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How can you possibly make that assertion? I just attended the memorial service for a 65 year old retired Marine who died of Covid. Try telling him and his family that "it's already over".

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Genuinely sorry about your friend but I'm also no going to alter my life because of it. People die every day of all ages. It's the only guarantee we have in life. Covid is over in the sense that people can and should go back to normal. Some of us have been as normal as possible since the beginning. If I were to lose someone to Covid I would celebrate them at their funeral, cry with their loved ones, and move on just like if I were to lose someone to cancer, or a car wreck, or old age.

It's over in that sense if we would let it be over.

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Nobody in this discussion is saying that you should alter your life. That was not the point of the discussion. The point of the discussion is when Covid will get so weak that it is over, that is, no longer a threat.

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Again, not sure if that will ever b e a thing. The flu is still a real threat. 60k to 100K can die yearly from it. Yet we do not expect the flu to "no longer be a threat" other than we just get a flu shot and otherwise do not think about it much unless we ourselves catch it.

We've gotten to a point where covid is categorized differently than other viruses still, and at this point, it is time to throw it in with the flu and the rest of the microbe threat world. Otherwise we have mask and vaccine mandates in public and private settings and shutdowns and other measures that just are not needed any more.

I guess the point is, while it is terrible that people still die from covid, how does that have anything to do with whether others decide that covid is "over" for them? No one is saying that these things are not real or didn't happen. But to many, these statements seem to suggest that we should still be mitigating and staying home b/c a friend, colleague or loved one died from covid. Maybe that isn't your point and that's fine. The goal was never full eradication and zero deaths, ever. It was about getting to a certain level of control over the spread of the virus an d the treatments of those who are infected IF they actually even need any treatment. Not 0 spread. Control means there will still be endemic spread.

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Not really sure what you're arguing about. You seem irritated or angry, and I'm not sure why

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What words of anger or irritation did I use?

But I will agree that I am frustrated with those who say that Covid is "over" when clearly it's not. They may choose to act like it's over for them, and that may be a wise decision for them, but Covid is definitely not "over" no matter what they choose to believe or how to act.

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Of course we don't know where COVID is headed. We'll know when it happens

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Thank you. That's my point, contra to the "It's over" folks.

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So my question of you is, since we don't know where it's headed, what do you consider "rational decisions" in dealing with it?

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Individual decisions. Every person is different and in a different situation and one size rarely fits all. What may be rational for me could be the most irrational decision possible for someone else, and vice versa. For example, it's just as wrong for folks to ridicule those wearing masks as it is to force people to wear masks in inappropriate settings.

Jabin said:

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Quote:

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Not really sure what you're arguing about. You seem irritated or angry, and I'm not sure why

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What words of anger or irritation did I use?

But I will agree that I am frustrated with those who say that Covid is "over" when clearly it's not. They may choose to act like it's over for them, and that may be a wise decision for them, but Covid is definitely not "over" no matter what they choose to believe or how to act.

Quote:

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Of course we don't know where COVID is headed. We'll know when it happens

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Thank you. That's my point, contra to the "It's over" folks.

Quote:

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So my question of you is, since we don't know where it's headed, what do you consider "rational decisions" in dealing with it?

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Individual decisions. Every person is different and in a different situation and one size rarely fits all. What may be rational for me could be the most irrational decision possible for someone else, and vice versa. For example, it's just as wrong for folks to ridicule those wearing masks as it is to force people to wear masks in inappropriate settings.

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So we can agree it's not over, so everybody just does what they want?

Who determines if their choice is rational or not? You? Is it one of those deals where we'll know if it's rational when we see it?

You really think ridiculing people wearing masks is as bad as forcing people to wear masks? OK

Bottom line is, I still don't get what is upsetting you. Is it that people are saying certain things or thinking certain things that you don't like? Why do you care what someone thinks or says?

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Bottom line is, I still don't get what is upsetting you. Is it that people are saying certain things or thinking certain things that you don't like? Why do you care what someone thinks or says?

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Looking right back at you. Why do you care what I think or say?

Because as long as Covid isn't "over" our politicians will continue to exploit it for power, money, and control. No one is saying that no one will die of Covid. We are saying that we need to move on from the mitigation efforts and treat it like any other respiratory disease.