Lancet: COVID-19 vaccines have "minimal" impact on preventing transmision

4,243 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Aust Ag
WolfCall
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
"New scientific findings in the prestigious Lancet Infectious Diseases journal blow a hole in the argument that workers need to get vaccinated to protect those around them."

[url=https://www.news-journal.com/opinion/mccaughey-new-vaccine-science-shows-mandates-are-unwise/article_35da2e8e-3ca4-11ec-b83c-1fbff4f138d0.html][/url]https://www.news-journal.com/opinion/mccaughey-new-vaccine-science-shows-mandates-are-unwise/article_35da2e8e-3ca4-11ec-b83c-1fbff4f138d0.html
Quote:

Quote:
McCaughey: New vaccine science shows mandates are unwise
  • By Betsy McCaughey Nov 4, 2021
New scientific findings in the prestigious Lancet Infectious Diseases journal blow a hole in the argument that workers need to get vaccinated to protect those around them. The findings prove the foolishness of forcing police and other public employees to get jabbed or lose their pay. And President Joe Biden should retract his order to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration to compel large employers to mandate vaccines.

The journal reported Thursday that COVID-19 vaccines have "minimal" impact on preventing transmission of the delta strain. Delta is the COVID strain currently causing over 99% of U.S. cases.

Vaccines protect the people getting the shots from serious illness, but they don't stop the delta variant from spreading to others.

Don't get me wrong. Americans should choose to get vaccinated. The key word is "choose." Though shots are no guarantee against getting infected and spreading it to others, they provide significant protection (90% or more) against hospitalization and death. I'm triple jabbed.

Choosing not to get vaccinated is choosing to risk your own life. The health risk to others is minimal.

Most vaccines against polio, smallpox, measles and other diseases prevent infection and spread. But not COVID-19 vaccines. Now that the battle is against the delta variant, they've become disease-tamers rather than infection preventers.

Tell that to Mayor Bill de Blasio, who gave New York City employees until Monday to get at least one shot or be sent home without pay. As of Monday, 9,000 are on unpaid leave because they have refused the shots. Twenty FDNY companies were shuttered because many of New York's bravest refuse the vaccine. Police Commissioner Dermot Shea claims the mandate will not further diminish the number of New York's finest on the street. That remains to be seen.

Governors and mayors from Maine to Los Angeles are demanding that public employees, and even nurses and doctors, hailed just months ago as heroes, get vaxxed or go without a job.

Maine Gov. Janet Mills says, "just as vaccination defeated smallpox and vaccination defeated polio, vaccination is the way to defeat COVID-19." Sorry, Governor, but you don't know what you're talking about.

Just as politicians don't read the bills before voting on them, they don't keep up with science but still want to tell the rest of us what to do.

The groundbreaking findings in Lancet show that fully vaccinated people who came down with COVID infected others in their household at the same rate (about 25%) as unvaccinated people did (about 23%). The vaccinated had just as much viral load in their upper respiratory tract, making them just as contagious. "Our findings show that vaccination alone is not enough to prevent people from being infected with the delta variant and spreading it," study co-author Ajit Lalvani said.

The British researchers also found that vaccinated people were only somewhat less likely to contract the virus (25%) compared with the unvaccinated (38%). That conflicts with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data showing the vaccinated are far less likely to contract COVID.

One thing is for sure: The science is uncertain on this. So, government should not be using a heavy hand to impose mandates claiming to make workplaces safer.

Meanwhile, the White House is pressing large companies to mandate vaccinations and calling on OSHA to enforce that policy with hefty penalties. The Build Back Better bill increases the penalties tenfold to as much as $700,000 per incident for hazardous conditions, threatening bankruptcy for all but the largest enterprises. The Biden administration expects to publish the rules in the Federal Register in the coming days, affecting about two-thirds of the private sector workforce.

Yet the new science undercuts OSHA's claim that unvaccinated people are a workplace hazard. So far, workplace mandates have been challenged at least 39 times in federal courts with little success, but the new scientific evidence may change that.

Lancet Infectious Diseases stressed the urgency of improving current vaccines or developing new ones to actually "protect against asymptomatic infections and onward transmission."

Foolishly, the Biden administration and Democrats in Congress vilify the vaccine developer Moderna for making a profit and threaten to seize its patents. It's possible COVID will continue morphing into new variants, requiring new vaccines from companies like Moderna.

When you're fighting a war in this case, against a killer disease attacking your own ammunitions maker is no way to win it.

[url=https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext][/url]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext
Quote:

Quote:
What is the vaccine effect on reducing transmission in the context of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant?
Annelies Wilder-Smith
Publishedctober 29, 2021DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/S1473-3099(21)00690-3

You voted for this because you didn't like Mean Tweets?!
Gordo14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This is kind of a weak paper with a small sample size that still clearly shows vaccinated people are less likely catch COVID, and therefore less likely to pass on COVID...

Not sure what the point of the article you posted by some newspaper is. You bolded a lot of personal commentary and misinterpretation of what really matters - if you don't catch COVID you are less likely to transmit COVID.
texan12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html

"Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus."
texan12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Also, the vaccinated aren't less likely to catch covid, they are less likely to develop severe symptoms.
amercer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
"Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance."


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

From the article in question.

The idea that the vaccines don't protect against infection or transmission is absolutely false.
willtackleforfood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG


How's the state of Vermont for a sample size? Per JHU ( https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html ), 160,000+ doses given per 100,000. The highest state administered dose count by population. Texas is 120,000+ for comparison.

More vax, should equal less spread? Is the data wrong or is something else going on?
amercer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Average 240 cases in the whole state? With a 3.3% positivity rate?

Seems like they are doing fine
texan12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
amercer said:

"Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance."


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

From the article in question.

The idea that the vaccines don't protect against infection or transmission is absolutely false.


From your link:

"Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Hostvirus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory."
texan12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"We compared viral load trajectories from fully vaccinated individuals with delta infection (n=29) with unvaccinated individuals with delta (n=16), alpha (B.1.1.7; n=39), and pre-alpha (n=49) infections."

What are you even posting?
amercer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Uh huh.

But reading is fundamental.

Vaccines keep you from catching the Covid. If you do catch the Covid you can transmit it. This isn't really hard.
traxter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
How does it compare to states with lower vaccination rates?
coolerguy12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Why do I know dozens of vaccinated people who have caught Covid?
WoMD
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The biggest issue is not protecting individuals against developing severe symptoms (because it can help with that on average, just not nearly close to what we've been told). The issue is the flat out lie about mandating vaccinations to "stop the spread." With more and more data and clear evidence showing that vaccination doesn't actually stop the spread at all, it takes away the whole point of the mandates. The bull**** about "stopping the spread" was always suspect from the beginning (it's an effing highly contagious respiratory virus and all we have is a leaky vaccine, but hey, we can stop it!), but now it is clear just how much we're being lied to.

The current most important question is, will the current data, and thus the current science, make any difference at all? The answer will obviously be no. Too many people blindly follow what they're told (just look at this forum as a clear example), and will never think critically and question "the science" to actually consider that maybe, just maybe, they haven't actually been doing things based on adjusted knowledge, but are too proud to consider that they could be wrong. Because, ya know, the science is settled. And anyone questioning it is always wrong and stupid and anti-science (and told they are taking horse dewormer to make it clear just how stupid they are). A true person of science will ALWAYS question and challenge what we think we know. That's the literal definition of how science should be done. But that's not happening amongst all these supposedly educated individuals. They go based on best initial guesses, completely discounted anything we are learning as time goes on. That's how science works, not what is currently being preached as science. Anyone not questioning what we "know" is a fool, and not a true believer in science. Especially since most of the current information we are told is being shoved down our throats by politicians and the media (as unerring fact), and any studies that go against these idiots are shouted down and turned against and insulted (like on this forum as an easy example).
WoMD
How long do you want to ignore this user?
amercer said:

Uh huh.

But reading is fundamental.

Vaccines keep you from catching the Covid. If you do catch the Covid you can transmit it. This isn't really hard.

No, these "vaccines" really aren't doing much to stop you from "catching" it. It seems to be having minimal benefit for that. It's minimizing symptoms more than keeping you from actually getting it. So you get it, you just aren't very sick, as best case scenario. But, as you say, it doesn't do **** to stop you from spreading it. So, obviously, more mandates are needed to "stop the spread."
willtackleforfood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I provided the link to the JHU data, where you can see a state's vaccination rates, cases and deaths. Pretty good source of data. Idaho has vaccinated the least - curve looks the same. Trending up.

Another good indicator of outcomes is the recent CDC report that came out on Friday. https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/11/study-53-of-immune-compromised-patients-hospitalized-with-covid-symptoms-were-fully-vaccinated/

"The study finds a majority (53%) of patients who were hospitalized with Covid-19-like illnesses were fully vaccinated with two-dose RNA shots."

J&J recipients were excluded. So.....it's not 53%.
The Agly Duckling
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I wouldn't think a vaccine would have any effect in either lowering or raising infection potential. It's a vaccine, not a bubble, or hazmat suit.

Vaccines only help you if you get infected.
willtackleforfood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG


Not 240 any longer. Maybe the 20 stars and you missed the trend? And cold/flu season isn't in gear yet.

Not good.
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
But also see this re Vermont:

Quote:

Case rates in Vermont residents who are not fully vaccinated are nearly four times higher than in fully vaccinated residents, according to state data.

On the other hand, this is from the same article:

Quote:

About two-thirds of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Vermont are unvaccinated, with those in the intensive care unit also largely unvaccinated, state officials said this week.
Those hospital numbers for vaccinated are higher than I've seen elsewhere.

And this is certainly a surprising statement from a government official:

Quote:

Regarding the recent case surge, Vermont may also be a "victim of our success," Levine said Tuesday, pointing to a lack of natural COVID-19 immunity among unvaccinated residents "because we kept the virus at such low levels throughout the entire pandemic." Vermont has one of the lowest levels nationwide of people who have developed natural immunity to the virus, CDC data shows.
Vermont has the highest vaccination rate in the country. So why are cases surging? - ABC News (go.com)

All of this stuff is way too complex for me to figure out. With an initial efficacy rating of 95% that declines significantly over time, the mere fact that the number of vaccinated cases is "surging", but itself, is not evidence at all that the vaccines do not work. You'd have to calculate whether or not the surge is outside the parameters of what you'd expect with those efficacy numbers, a task that is far beyond my humble abilities.
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
That guy is also misusing statistics. Vermont may or may not have had 13X the cases that Florida did at some particular date or time. However, since the start of the pandemic, Vermont has had only a fraction of cases relative to population size that Florida did. In cases/million population, VT is currently at 71,299 and FL is at 173,045. In other words, the spread of Covid has been almost 2 1/2 times worse in Florida than in VT.

All info is from worldometer.

I am not advocating for or against any particular policy re covid. Rather, I'm sick and tired of both sides manipulating the data to support their pre-determined position.
SwigAg11
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Vermont will be interesting to watch going forward since it appears that this wave has just taken off like a rocket far worse than what the state has seen previously.
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
True.
Keller6Ag91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Jabin said:

That guy is also misusing statistics. Vermont may or may not have had 13X the cases that Florida did at some particular date or time. However, since the start of the pandemic, Vermont has had only a fraction of cases relative to population size that Florida did. In cases/million population, VT is currently at 71,299 and FL is at 173,045. In other words, the spread of Covid has been almost 2 1/2 times worse in Florida than in VT.

All info is from worldometer.

I am not advocating for or against any particular policy re covid. Rather, I'm sick and tired of both sides manipulating the data to support their pre-determined position.
Can we all agree that the current vaccine DOES NOT stop the vaccinated from getting and passing COVID?
Gig'Em and God Bless,

JB'91
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Keller6Ag91 said:

Jabin said:

That guy is also misusing statistics. Vermont may or may not have had 13X the cases that Florida did at some particular date or time. However, since the start of the pandemic, Vermont has had only a fraction of cases relative to population size that Florida did. In cases/million population, VT is currently at 71,299 and FL is at 173,045. In other words, the spread of Covid has been almost 2 1/2 times worse in Florida than in VT.

All info is from worldometer.

I am not advocating for or against any particular policy re covid. Rather, I'm sick and tired of both sides manipulating the data to support their pre-determined position.
Can we all agree that the current vaccine DOES NOT stop the vaccinated from getting and passing COVID?
From the data that I have seen, It seems that the current vaccines do not stop the vaccinated from getting or passing Covid, but do substantially reduce the rates of infection and thus Infectiousness.
harge57
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
From the OP.

"The British researchers also found that vaccinated people were only somewhat less likely to contract the virus (25%) compared with the unvaccinated (38%). That conflicts with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data showing the vaccinated are far less likely to contract COVID."
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
harge57 said:

From the OP.

"The British researchers also found that vaccinated people were only somewhat less likely to contract the virus (25%) compared with the unvaccinated (38%). That conflicts with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data showing the vaccinated are far less likely to contract COVID."
Interesting. I wonder if that difference could be due to difference in vaccines? Was Moderna used or as widely used in GB? A 25% rate is horrible.
ToroBueno
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
willtackleforfood said:



How's the state of Vermont for a sample size? Per JHU ( https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html ), 160,000+ doses given per 100,000. The highest state administered dose count by population. Texas is 120,000+ for comparison.

More vax, should equal less spread? Is the data wrong or is something else going on?
Moreover....good check out Gibraltar's news today....100% vaxed...20% boosted and yet their cases are climbing, vaxed are dying and they've shut down Christmas...google the news article....i am not making this up. Any you guys think the vax can inhibit transmission?



Horns down forever!
willtackleforfood
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Aust Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
ToroBueno said:

willtackleforfood said:



How's the state of Vermont for a sample size? Per JHU ( https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html ), 160,000+ doses given per 100,000. The highest state administered dose count by population. Texas is 120,000+ for comparison.

More vax, should equal less spread? Is the data wrong or is something else going on?
Moreover....good check out Gibraltar's news today....100% vaxed...20% boosted and yet their cases are climbing, vaxed are dying and they've shut down Christmas...google the news article....i am not making this up. Any you guys think the vax can inhibit transmission?




I feel like I've known about the vax not inhibiting transmission since my May vaxed wife got sick for 2-3 days with Covid in July, then gave it to my 8 year old who also was down for a couple of days. Why do people still believe the vax keeps you from transmitting? Do that many people watch The View?
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.