I was surprised to hear our pediatrician recommending to wait to get our kids vaccinated. The pediatrician is not recommending against the vaccine or for it at this time. Anyone else get this feedback from your pediatrician?

Look up kiddoc's posts. He says the same thing.

Yes, ours has been saying that since the vaccines were first released for Adults. Very pro-vaccine for Adults, He got it right away and recommended we did when available to us.

He very specifically said not to give it to our kids if/when they rolled it out because healthy kids really aren't effected (our kids are actually healthy, not MSM "healthy"). He continued that even when we went in September for strep throat.

any pediatrician who doesnt force vaccines down your throat is one worth keeping.

Just to offer a counter point, we asked for our pediatrician's thoughts on it today for the 5-11 group and she said she was "a big fan" and wouldn't wait. Said she has seen a number of her patients who, while they recovered, had lingering issues with a meaningful impact to their quality of life. Didn't put any pressure on us to do it, but was in favor of it.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating one way or the other (so don't argue with me), just offering a response to the OP of what our pediatrician said.

BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Just to offer a counter point, we asked for our pediatrician's thoughts on it today for the 5-11 group and she said she was "a big fan" and wouldn't wait. Said she has seen a number of her patients who, while they recovered, had lingering issues with a meaningful impact to their quality of life. Didn't put any pressure on us to do it, but was in favor of it.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating one way or the other (so don't argue with me), just offering a response to the OP of what our pediatrician said.

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Did you follow up and ask about the general health of those patients who had lingering issues? What comorbidities did they have? Too many healthcare people I talk with use scare tactics of just sick people. When you follow up with them, they are usually obese or otherwise immunocompromised.

The EAU was 1300 kids getting the vaccine. That is nothing when you are looking for 1:1,000 or even more rare adverse effects.

I'm excited for my special needs patients who are at high risk for severe COVID, the rest should wait IMO. The 12-18 year old myocarditis cases were not found in the research group either.

A couple million kids will be getting it in the next few weeks, so anyone who wants to see how that works out will know shortly

I have a 7 year old, a 4 year old who turns 5 in Jan, and a baby on the way. We had a sick visit a few weeks ago and the pediatrician said we could talk about both kids at the well-check in Jan. Said it wasn't worth rushing, not even with me pregnant.

For what's it's worth, OB doesn't like the booster idea either.

amercer said:

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A couple million kids will be getting it in the next few weeks, so anyone who wants to see how that works out will know shortly

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I will be happy to see how they do over the next 10-15 years, so I can make that evaluation for my kids.

fightingfarmer09 said:

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amercer said:

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A couple million kids will be getting it in the next few weeks, so anyone who wants to see how that works out will know shortly

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I will be happy to see how they do over the next 10-15 years, so I can make that evaluation for my kids.

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I still don't understand this hand wringing about long term vaccine adverse effects. They don't happen with any other vaccine and it doesn't make any sense at all with mRNA biochemistry. The short term effects are worth waiting and watching for but this continued concern for long term adverse effects is so odd to me.

Ours said get it when when it became available. We did, no issues. Most of our friends did too, no issues.

AgResearch said:

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KidDoc said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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amercer said:

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A couple million kids will be getting it in the next few weeks, so anyone who wants to see how that works out will know shortly

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I will be happy to see how they do over the next 10-15 years, so I can make that evaluation for my kids.

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I still don't understand this hand wringing about long term vaccine adverse effects. They don't happen with any other vaccine and it doesn't make any sense at all with mRNA biochemistry. The short term effects are worth waiting and watching for but this continued concern for long term adverse effects is so odd to me.

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Are vaccines normally subjected to long-term studies prior to approval? Chicken pox vaccine? HPV vaccine?

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Yes but for efficacy and duration of immunity, not for long term side effects.

FDA usually wants to see 5 year efficacy data, they monitor safety as well of course but it is unheard of to see late side effects in the history of human vaccines.

Beyond the 5 years they are still monitored. The newest vaccines (HPV, MCV, Varicella) all had changes to their schedules 10+ years after approval due to data over time. HPV had a dose removed due to remarkable efficacy and MCV and Varicella had a dose added due to waning immunity 5 years after the primary dose.

Sorry if responding too much but vaccines are a big part of my job!

Brad06ag said:

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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Just to offer a counter point, we asked for our pediatrician's thoughts on it today for the 5-11 group and she said she was "a big fan" and wouldn't wait. Said she has seen a number of her patients who, while they recovered, had lingering issues with a meaningful impact to their quality of life. Didn't put any pressure on us to do it, but was in favor of it.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating one way or the other (so don't argue with me), just offering a response to the OP of what our pediatrician said.

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Did you follow up and ask about the general health of those patients who had lingering issues? What comorbidities did they have? Too many healthcare people I talk with use scare tactics of just sick people. When you follow up with them, they are usually obese or otherwise immunocompromised.

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We did not follow up on that. This might come out sounding like a shot at you or someone, so I apologize in advance because I promise it isn't. The reason we didn't ask a lot of follow up is because one of the we put a lot of time into picking a pediatrician/pediatric practice that we really trust when it comes to medical decisions regarding our kids, and now having done that, we try really hard not to second guess their recommendations. We found one where we really like the thoughtfulness and effort with which they review new scientific data, where we agreed with their general treatment philosophy when it comes to risk tolerance and risk/reward balance, and so now, when they make a recommendation, we may ask a few follow up questions occasionally if needed, but generally if they believe strongly in something for our kids we have decided to just trust them. and that was true before covid existed so our internal argument has been, we have trusted them with everything else, so why start doubting them now without really good reason.

KidDoc said:

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AgResearch said:

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KidDoc said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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amercer said:

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A couple million kids will be getting it in the next few weeks, so anyone who wants to see how that works out will know shortly

---

I will be happy to see how they do over the next 10-15 years, so I can make that evaluation for my kids.

---

I still don't understand this hand wringing about long term vaccine adverse effects. They don't happen with any other vaccine and it doesn't make any sense at all with mRNA biochemistry. The short term effects are worth waiting and watching for but this continued concern for long term adverse effects is so odd to me.

---

Are vaccines normally subjected to long-term studies prior to approval? Chicken pox vaccine? HPV vaccine?

---

Yes but for efficacy and duration of immunity, not for long term side effects.

FDA usually wants to see 5 year efficacy data, they monitor safety as well of course but it is unheard of to see late side effects in the history of human vaccines.

Beyond the 5 years they are still monitored. The newest vaccines (HPV, MCV, Varicella) all had changes to their schedules 10+ years after approval due to data over time. HPV had a dose removed due to remarkable efficacy and MCV and Varicella had a dose added due to waning immunity 5 years after the primary dose.

Sorry if responding too much but vaccines are a big part of my job!

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I for one appreciate all your responses and and have found them very helpful in guiding our thinking and questions to our own pediatrician during all of this.

KidDoc said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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amercer said:

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A couple million kids will be getting it in the next few weeks, so anyone who wants to see how that works out will know shortly

---

I will be happy to see how they do over the next 10-15 years, so I can make that evaluation for my kids.

---

I still don't understand this hand wringing about long term vaccine adverse effects. They don't happen with any other vaccine and it doesn't make any sense at all with mRNA biochemistry. The short term effects are worth waiting and watching for but this continued concern for long term adverse effects is so odd to me.

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Its non-medical people thinking the vaccine is going to be the next thalidomide and finding some dubious rumble or bitchute video to confirm their suspicions. Complete ignorance to how things work. Its not surprising considering how many people think physicians, veterinarians, dentists, optometrists etc. are just glorified human/animal mechanics.

BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Brad06ag said:

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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Just to offer a counter point, we asked for our pediatrician's thoughts on it today for the 5-11 group and she said she was "a big fan" and wouldn't wait. Said she has seen a number of her patients who, while they recovered, had lingering issues with a meaningful impact to their quality of life. Didn't put any pressure on us to do it, but was in favor of it.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating one way or the other (so don't argue with me), just offering a response to the OP of what our pediatrician said.

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Did you follow up and ask about the general health of those patients who had lingering issues? What comorbidities did they have? Too many healthcare people I talk with use scare tactics of just sick people. When you follow up with them, they are usually obese or otherwise immunocompromised.

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We did not follow up on that. This might come out sounding like a shot at you or someone, so I apologize in advance because I promise it isn't. The reason we didn't ask a lot of follow up is because one of the we put a lot of time into picking a pediatrician/pediatric practice that we really trust when it comes to medical decisions regarding our kids, and now having done that, we try really hard not to second guess their recommendations. We found one where we really like the thoughtfulness and effort with which they review new scientific data, where we agreed with their general treatment philosophy when it comes to risk tolerance and risk/reward balance, and so now, when they make a recommendation, we may ask a few follow up questions occasionally if needed, but generally if they believe strongly in something for our kids we have decided to just trust them. and that was true before covid existed so our internal argument has been, we have trusted them with everything else, so why start doubting them now without really good reason.

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I feel the same way about our pediatrician. Despite any of my feelings, I was prepared to follow their advice one way or the other on vaccinations for the kids. I understand the logic for waiting … but it goes against my personal approach to most things medical: 'If it's necessary then don't put it off.'

My pediatrician and I disagree on it but my 5 year old will be getting it. He doesn't have any special needs but we're in contact with too many people we need to protect.

trouble said:

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My pediatrician and I disagree on it but my 5 year old will be getting it. He doesn't have any special needs but we're in contact with too many people we need to protect.

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Just remember that there is currently zero data showing that the lower dose Pfizer vaccine decreases risk of transmission from the child to others. It SHOULD help but there is zero data right now.

The only current data from the 3100 kids is 90% reduction in symptomatic COVID and good titer response.

KidDoc said:

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trouble said:

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My pediatrician and I disagree on it but my 5 year old will be getting it. He doesn't have any special needs but we're in contact with too many people we need to protect.

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Just remember that there is currently zero data showing that the lower dose Pfizer vaccine decreases risk of transmission from the child to others. It SHOULD help but there is zero data right now.

The only current data from the 3100 kids is 90% reduction in symptomatic COVID and good titer response.

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And I'm okay with that. I'm also much more worried about myocarditis from actual infection.

He's suffering greatly from not being able to do usual activities because of family members. His little extrovert self needs to be with people.

As more are vaccinated, I expect we'll see the same pattern of little culturable virus and rapid clearing as we're seeing in adults.

I didn't lose all my nursing sense when I became a SAHM.

KidDoc said:

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trouble said:

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My pediatrician and I disagree on it but my 5 year old will be getting it. He doesn't have any special needs but we're in contact with too many people we need to protect.

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Just remember that there is currently zero data showing that the lower dose Pfizer vaccine decreases risk of transmission from the child to others. It SHOULD help but there is zero data right now.

The only current data from the 3100 kids is 90% reduction in symptomatic COVID and good titer response.

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This post not intended as criticism, but did you watch the ACIP meeting yesterday? It was quite conclusive that the risks associated with infection (including myocarditis from infection) substantially outweighed any risk from the vaccine (lots of data in 12 - 17 population to support this).

If it takes several hundred thousand injections for one episode of myocarditis, then is it really a risk worth considering? The risk of myocarditis or MIS-C has been shown to be much higher than that with COVID-19 infection. Just trying to get a understanding of how to assess the risk level.

BTW let me add to the chorus that I really appreciate everything you do on this board. Your opinions are invaluable.

The risk of vaccine related myocarditis is pretty specific to dose #2 and young men ages 12-25 at this time. I keep hearing about all this COVID induced myocarditis but it is impossible to find any data on that for some reason. It is a very low likelihood but so is severe COVID in healthy teens so it is a difficult decision to make when benefit and risk is about the same either way.

When looking at overall population the benefit is crystal clear, but that is lumping all kids into one category. We all know not all kids or teens are the same. If the kid has ANY risk factor-- including overweight (roughly 40% of kids)-- vaccine is clearly beneficial. I am wary of advising vaccine to 5-18 year olds with zero risk factor as the risk of severe COVID is incredibly tiny in that group just as the risk of vaccine induced myocarditis is tiny as well.

The ACIP & CDC are, appropriately, making population based decisions. I am making personal one on one advise based on individual patient risk factors.

I'm also big on the "do no harm" part of being a doctor, I don't want to cause myocarditis if possible. Especially considering the current COVID rates are incredibly small in my area (<200 cases in 200k population).

tamuangry said:

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I was surprised to hear our pediatrician recommending to wait to get our kids vaccinated. The pediatrician is not recommending against the vaccine or for it at this time. Anyone else get this feedback from your pediatrician?

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Many are saying this. It is the advice my wife and I are following. Not agaisnt it eventually but for now, especially given that both of my kids have had covid, there really isn't a need.


There is honestly no emergency need for most children to be vaccinated. The entire campaign, to me, is totally unnecessary. Tell people it's available but they need to stop pushing people to get their kids vaccinated so strongly, imo.

There's absolutely zero reason to vaccinate healthy kids in this age group. None.

tamuangry said:

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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Brad06ag said:

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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Just to offer a counter point, we asked for our pediatrician's thoughts on it today for the 5-11 group and she said she was "a big fan" and wouldn't wait. Said she has seen a number of her patients who, while they recovered, had lingering issues with a meaningful impact to their quality of life. Didn't put any pressure on us to do it, but was in favor of it.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating one way or the other (so don't argue with me), just offering a response to the OP of what our pediatrician said.

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Did you follow up and ask about the general health of those patients who had lingering issues? What comorbidities did they have? Too many healthcare people I talk with use scare tactics of just sick people. When you follow up with them, they are usually obese or otherwise immunocompromised.

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We did not follow up on that. This might come out sounding like a shot at you or someone, so I apologize in advance because I promise it isn't. The reason we didn't ask a lot of follow up is because one of the we put a lot of time into picking a pediatrician/pediatric practice that we really trust when it comes to medical decisions regarding our kids, and now having done that, we try really hard not to second guess their recommendations. We found one where we really like the thoughtfulness and effort with which they review new scientific data, where we agreed with their general treatment philosophy when it comes to risk tolerance and risk/reward balance, and so now, when they make a recommendation, we may ask a few follow up questions occasionally if needed, but generally if they believe strongly in something for our kids we have decided to just trust them. and that was true before covid existed so our internal argument has been, we have trusted them with everything else, so why start doubting them now without really good reason.

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I feel the same way about our pediatrician. Despite any of my feelings, I was prepared to follow their advice one way or the other on vaccinations for the kids. I understand the logic for waiting … but it goes against my personal approach to most things medical: 'If it's necessary then don't put it off.'

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The question is just how necessary is it for someone under 18. We don't recommend giving children PPSV 23 for pneumonia even though it has caused more deaths by itself for children age 5-14 then COVID according to the following link:
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku

Why? Because the CDC thinks that it is not very necessary. Why does the CDC think COVID vaccine is very necessary when COVID is 40% less deadly then pneumonia for this age group.

billydean05 said:

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tamuangry said:

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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Brad06ag said:

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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Just to offer a counter point, we asked for our pediatrician's thoughts on it today for the 5-11 group and she said she was "a big fan" and wouldn't wait. Said she has seen a number of her patients who, while they recovered, had lingering issues with a meaningful impact to their quality of life. Didn't put any pressure on us to do it, but was in favor of it.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating one way or the other (so don't argue with me), just offering a response to the OP of what our pediatrician said.

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Did you follow up and ask about the general health of those patients who had lingering issues? What comorbidities did they have? Too many healthcare people I talk with use scare tactics of just sick people. When you follow up with them, they are usually obese or otherwise immunocompromised.

---

We did not follow up on that. This might come out sounding like a shot at you or someone, so I apologize in advance because I promise it isn't. The reason we didn't ask a lot of follow up is because one of the we put a lot of time into picking a pediatrician/pediatric practice that we really trust when it comes to medical decisions regarding our kids, and now having done that, we try really hard not to second guess their recommendations. We found one where we really like the thoughtfulness and effort with which they review new scientific data, where we agreed with their general treatment philosophy when it comes to risk tolerance and risk/reward balance, and so now, when they make a recommendation, we may ask a few follow up questions occasionally if needed, but generally if they believe strongly in something for our kids we have decided to just trust them. and that was true before covid existed so our internal argument has been, we have trusted them with everything else, so why start doubting them now without really good reason.

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I feel the same way about our pediatrician. Despite any of my feelings, I was prepared to follow their advice one way or the other on vaccinations for the kids. I understand the logic for waiting … but it goes against my personal approach to most things medical: 'If it's necessary then don't put it off.'

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The question is just how necessary is it for someone under 18. We don't recommend giving children PPSV 23 for pneumonia even though it has caused more deaths by itself for children age 5-14 then COVID according to the following link:
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku

Why? Because the CDC thinks that it is not very necessary. Why does the CDC think COVID vaccine is very necessary when COVID is 40% less deadly then pneumonia for this age group.

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I would imagine it is under the premise of an emergency pandemic of a highly infectious virus that is dangerous to certain populations. Pneumonia doesn't spread like COVID.

Of course vaccine does not completely stop the spread of COVID either but it does help decrease the probability on a population or community level.

And Pneumovax is indicated for specific pediatric populations (Sickle Cell, Type 1 DM, s/p chemo)- much like COVID vaccine should be IMO.