OP, you may want to hold off if your job is in Texas and you dont want to take it.. Abbotts EO today will challenge the Biden EO... this is fixing to get heated in states with governors who are going to go after Bidens EO... if you do want to take the vax just yet, this may buy you some time or even allow you to make it your choice the way it should be
Forced to take the Vaccine or Lose my Livelihood - which Vaccine do you take?
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Last: 3 yr ago by 01agtx
fullback44 said:
OP, you may want to hold off if your job is in Texas and you dont want to take it.. Abbotts EO today will challenge the Biden EO... this is fixing to get heated in states with governors who are going to go after Bidens EO... if you do want to take the vax just yet, this may buy you some time or even allow you to make it your choice the way it should be
Yeah that's how I hope this plays out. From what I understand, the Biden EO is not even technically official in any capacity, it's just our corporate overlords have decided they will pre-emptively comply.
Hopefully this buys me some more time at the very least and our threatening HR declarations magically disappear or get delayed due to "uncertainty"
Good on SWA for showing the country that this will take down business if you order mandates that stomp on our civil liberties.
let me tell you, these big corporations will back down in fear of getting sued in these states like Texas, there will be many more states to follow Abbotts EO but of course the liberal courts and judges will try to head it off, this is gonna be a big fight, states like Texas will cause companies to back off nation wide in fear that people will eventually sue the companies for being impartial in certain states.. this will be fun to watch.. you gonna see some states start to flex their powers over the fed real quick IMOAggiEE said:fullback44 said:
OP, you may want to hold off if your job is in Texas and you dont want to take it.. Abbotts EO today will challenge the Biden EO... this is fixing to get heated in states with governors who are going to go after Bidens EO... if you do want to take the vax just yet, this may buy you some time or even allow you to make it your choice the way it should be
Yeah that's how I hope this plays out. From what I understand, the Biden EO is not even technically official in any capacity, it's just our corporate overlords have decided they will pre-emptively comply.
Hopefully this buys me some more time at the very least and our threatening HR declarations magically disappear or get delayed due to "uncertainty"
Good on SWA for showing the country that this will take down business if you order mandates that stomp on our civil liberties.
I seriously doubt this because they have well-compensated general counsel and plenty of outside legal advisors that remind them of what they already know. Employees are not federally protected from vaccine mandates except in extremely grey area sections. These lawyers actually studied civil liberties and are not misrepresenting them out on the fringe.Quote:
let me tell you, these big corporations will back down in fear of getting sued in these states like Texas
They also know that those workers really digging in their heels are a rather small minority.
They also know that Greg Abbott can't do anything besides launch PR stunts.
Windy City Ag said:I seriously doubt this because they have well-compensated general counsel and plenty of outside legal advisors that remind them of what they already know. Employees are not federally protected from vaccine mandates except in extremely grey area sections. These lawyers actually studied civil liberties and are not misrepresenting them out on the fringe.Quote:
let me tell you, these big corporations will back down in fear of getting sued in these states like Texas
They also know that those workers really digging in their heels are a rather small minority.
They also know that Greg Abbott can't do anything besides launch PR stunts.
Maybe not as worried about lawsuits but the federal requirements are definitely playing a part in their decisions....
American Airlines:
"While we are still working through the details of the federal requirements, it is clear that team members who choose to remain unvaccinated will not be able to work at American Airlines," Parker and Isom said in the letter, obtained by the Observer on Monday.
Southwest Airlines:
"Southwest Airlines must join our industry peers in complying with the federal government's COVID-19 vaccination directive," Southwest Airlines Chairman and CEO Gary Kelly said in a written statement. "I encourage all Southwest Employees to meet the federal directive, as quickly as possible, since we value every individual and want to ensure job security for all."
I guess we are all about to see how this plays out.. no need to speculate.. its going to happen fairly soon and we peasants will be able to see first handWindy City Ag said:I seriously doubt this because they have well-compensated general counsel and plenty of outside legal advisors that remind them of what they already know. Employees are not federally protected from vaccine mandates except in extremely grey area sections. These lawyers actually studied civil liberties and are not misrepresenting them out on the fringe.Quote:
let me tell you, these big corporations will back down in fear of getting sued in these states like Texas
They also know that those workers really digging in their heels are a rather small minority.
They also know that Greg Abbott can't do anything besides launch PR stunts.
Yes . . . . .and here we go. Southwest Airlines just announced 20 minutes ago that they are ignoring Abbott's order and complying with Federal requirements.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-12/southwest-to-comply-with-biden-vaccine-order-over-abbott-ban
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-12/southwest-to-comply-with-biden-vaccine-order-over-abbott-ban
And this should not be surprising given that every cruise line has been ignoring Ron DeSantis and his EOs over in Florida with no penalty and backing from Federal Courts.Quote:
"According to the president's executive order, federal action supersedes any state mandate or law, and we would be expected to comply with the president's order to remain compliant as a federal contractor," Southwest said in an emailed statement.
The company, like most U.S. airlines, has government contracts for movement of employees and goods. Southwest has set a Dec. 8 deadline for workers to be fully vaccinated or face possible job loss.
Windy City Ag said:
Yes . . . . .and here we go. Southwest Airlines just announced 20 minutes ago that they are ignoring Abbott's order and complying with Federal requirements.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-12/southwest-to-comply-with-biden-vaccine-order-over-abbott-banAnd this should not be surprising given that every cruise line has been ignoring Ron DeSantis and his EOs over in Florida with no penalty and backing from Federal Courts.Quote:
"According to the president's executive order, federal action supersedes any state mandate or law, and we would be expected to comply with the president's order to remain compliant as a federal contractor," Southwest said in an emailed statement.
The company, like most U.S. airlines, has government contracts for movement of employees and goods. Southwest has set a Dec. 8 deadline for workers to be fully vaccinated or face possible job loss.
All Hail Lord Biden and his executive order....we are good with that....right?
edit: they have to do this b/c their federal contracts are larger than their state contracts.
I felt the same obligation to get the vaccine that I did to fill out my draft card when I turned 18.
In a dictatorship, such as the USA, state 'interventions' will be meaningless. It's shocking to me that Trump was shot down by some random federal judge minutes after he EO'd something, but there is literally nothing that can be done when the current dictator waves his magic wand. Guess I should have paid better attention in gov and politics classes, because I don't understand.
Sorry, OP, our company just sent out a note about the dictator's mandate. I'll be providing negative at home tests for as long as possible (just re-using the same one over and over). Hoping some judge or court or fate intervenes. My wife and I have discussed it, not really sure we can make it on a teacher's salary for too long. Also working the fake vaxxx card route.
Sorry, OP, our company just sent out a note about the dictator's mandate. I'll be providing negative at home tests for as long as possible (just re-using the same one over and over). Hoping some judge or court or fate intervenes. My wife and I have discussed it, not really sure we can make it on a teacher's salary for too long. Also working the fake vaxxx card route.
What a hollow EO by Abbott. His polling must have come in
I struggle with what more he can do.
Lord Biden has already started a ripple effect with the backing of the federal government that would be hard to slow.
Most of the companies...if they fear losing money from either state or federal...they would likely be quicker to drop state money in lieu of the big bucks from federal.
Lord Biden has already started a ripple effect with the backing of the federal government that would be hard to slow.
Most of the companies...if they fear losing money from either state or federal...they would likely be quicker to drop state money in lieu of the big bucks from federal.
seems silly to enforce this late in the game.
new viral mutations will be so different probably not doing anything for you going into next year
new viral mutations will be so different probably not doing anything for you going into next year
. Just setting precedence for more mandates of boosters and new shots for new variants.JP_Losman said:
seems silly to enforce this late in the game.
new viral mutations will be so different probably not doing anything for you going into next year
this will all play out.. give it some timeWindy City Ag said:
Yes . . . . .and here we go. Southwest Airlines just announced 20 minutes ago that they are ignoring Abbott's order and complying with Federal requirements.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-12/southwest-to-comply-with-biden-vaccine-order-over-abbott-banAnd this should not be surprising given that every cruise line has been ignoring Ron DeSantis and his EOs over in Florida with no penalty and backing from Federal Courts.Quote:
"According to the president's executive order, federal action supersedes any state mandate or law, and we would be expected to comply with the president's order to remain compliant as a federal contractor," Southwest said in an emailed statement.
The company, like most U.S. airlines, has government contracts for movement of employees and goods. Southwest has set a Dec. 8 deadline for workers to be fully vaccinated or face possible job loss.
SouthWest biggest issue isnt the court case now filed against them from the union regarding Vaccines, there biggest issue will be the employees themselves, the pilots can basically shut SouthWest down like they did this weekend.. if you dont have employees, they cant run there business
gonna be interesting to see how this plays out
Lets see how Abbotts EO plays out also, if the Texas Legislature passes this as law then you have state and federal laws opposing each other.. .the Libs out in California didnt follow Trumps rules so I would imagine the states like TExas Florida, etc etc etc etc are going to start playing the same game
THIS IS A POLITICAL ISSUE, MANDATES ARE POLITICAL ISSUES (regardless who imposes them)
For all that are interested in a new career, I'm a trucker. My company employs well over 100 people, and they will NEVER mandate the vaccine for their employees. Mainly, because probably over half of their truckers would tell them to pound sand. I know I would.
Anyway, if you're being forced to vax, and trucking interests you, there is lots of money to be made out here and the industry is dying for truck drivers. In my prior life, I was a programmer/analyst and I make more now than I did then.
Owner/operators can make at least double what I make. I've toyed with becoming an o/o, but haven't bitten the bullet yet. I'm a little leary of the risk.
Anyway, if you're being forced to vax, and trucking interests you, there is lots of money to be made out here and the industry is dying for truck drivers. In my prior life, I was a programmer/analyst and I make more now than I did then.
Owner/operators can make at least double what I make. I've toyed with becoming an o/o, but haven't bitten the bullet yet. I'm a little leary of the risk.
Do you have any insight on owning/operating a hot-shot business?
texan12 said:
Do you have any insight on owning/operating a hot-shot business?
I've talked to a few guys that hotshot. Definitely something I've thought about, and again, tons of potential, lots of money to be made.
Gotta get a good duelly (sp) truck and a good trailer, which can be expensive, but the guys I've talked to love it and can clear 4-7k a week. Or so they say. And of course the more miles you drive, the more you make.
$7K a week. Sign me up
Diggity said:
$7K a week. Sign me up
I know. I kick myself every day for not taking the leap and going o/o, but I like not worrying about all the expense and upkeep. I'll do it one of these days... maybe when they tell me I have to get vaxed.
Are school vaccine mandates political now as well - they didn't used to be.fullback44 said:
THIS IS A POLITICAL ISSUE, MANDATES ARE POLITICAL ISSUES (regardless who imposes them)
Unless you have some true underlying medical reasoning, everyone should be getting vaccinated. I wish there wasn't an EO requiring it, but even more so I wish our society had the common sense to know that vaccines are a huge part of us getting out of this mess. If the vast majority had been vaccinated, no EO would have been necessary.
AggieFrog said:Are school vaccine mandates political now as well - they didn't used to be.fullback44 said:
THIS IS A POLITICAL ISSUE, MANDATES ARE POLITICAL ISSUES (regardless who imposes them)
Unless you have some true underlying medical reasoning, everyone should be getting vaccinated. I wish there wasn't an EO requiring it, but even more so I wish our society had the common sense to know that vaccines are a huge part of us getting out of this mess. If the vast majority had been vaccinated, no EO would have been necessary.
Nobody that fits in a healthy profile that is at extremely low risk should be getting forced to vaccinate and beta test new types of vaccines whose long term health risks are unknown and whose efficacy at this point isn't all that strong
Sorry to break it to you but no, we have not cured the common cold, we have not cured this new strain of cold only about 18 months since it was discovered and by which it can mutate.
The amount of "faith" people place in "science" and "institutions" is staggering.
No, the only way we are getting out of this is an acceptance of going back to normal, an acceptance of personal risk, an acceptance of lifestyle choices that led to such a high degree of risk, and move on.
Instead, we are all having to submit to a dragged out political song and dance so the establishment can reach their long-term societal control objectives.
Societal control or increased public health. Vaccination requirements are anything but new - dating back decades (and with vaccines that were new at the time as well). If you're concerned about long term vaccination risks, then you still don't understand how vaccinations work.AggiEE said:
Instead, we are all having to submit to a dragged out political song and dance so the establishment can reach their long-term societal control objectives.
AggieFrog said:Societal control or increased public health. Vaccination requirements are anything but new - dating back decades (and with vaccines that were new at the time as well). If you're concerned about long term vaccination risks, then you still don't understand how vaccinations work.AggiEE said:
Instead, we are all having to submit to a dragged out political song and dance so the establishment can reach their long-term societal control objectives.
You must be extremely confused if taking a vaccine makes anyone more healthy. Don't confuse prepping a weak and unhealthy immune system as a substitute for good health.
If our country wasn't largely obese with signs of metabolic dysfunction, this pandemic would be a lot less problematic.
Since you're an expert on vaccines, please inform us all about how side effects of blood clots and heart inflammation are nothing to be concerned about, and how we have decades of tested data for this particular application?
I'm not anti-vaxx, but for most vaccines you get near 100% efficacy and only need one shot, and they can stave off much more severe illness. I don't need a vaccine for a cold.
AggieFrog said:Societal control or increased public health. Vaccination requirements are anything but new - dating back decades (and with vaccines that were new at the time as well). If you're concerned about long term vaccination risks, then you still don't understand how vaccinations work.AggiEE said:
Instead, we are all having to submit to a dragged out political song and dance so the establishment can reach their long-term societal control objectives.
I've never had an employer ask for a vaccination record in my life. Even when traveling overseas to disease hotspots they have never once mentioned vaccinations to anything.
Where are your papers?!
Side effects due to the vaccine are a thing, but much less impactful and risks much lower than the risks associated with getting COVID. Comparatively speaking, the risks of the vaccine are dwarfed by the risks of the disease.AggiEE said:AggieFrog said:Societal control or increased public health. Vaccination requirements are anything but new - dating back decades (and with vaccines that were new at the time as well). If you're concerned about long term vaccination risks, then you still don't understand how vaccinations work.AggiEE said:
Instead, we are all having to submit to a dragged out political song and dance so the establishment can reach their long-term societal control objectives.
You must be extremely confused if taking a vaccine makes anyone more healthy. Don't confuse prepping a weak and unhealthy immune system as a substitute for good health.
If our country wasn't largely obese with signs of metabolic dysfunction, this pandemic would be a lot less problematic.
Since you're an expert on vaccines, please inform us all about how side effects of blood clots and heart inflammation are nothing to be concerned about, and how we have decades of tested data for this particular application?
I'm not anti-vaxx, but for most vaccines you get near 100% efficacy and only need one shot, and they can stave off much more severe illness. I don't need a vaccine for a cold.
BTW - most childhood vaccinations are not 100% and do require more than one dose -
Efficacy:
Diptheria - 97%
Hep A - 95%
Measles - 97%
Mumps - 88%
Rubella - 97%
Pertussis - 80-90%
https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects
My wife is an RN - numerous vaccinations are already required, as they should be. Sorry, I have no problem with this.
Never in our lifetime have we lived in a pandemic. Had a vaccine existed in 1918-1919, it would have been required as well.SoupNazi2001 said:fightingfarmer09 said:AggieFrog said:Societal control or increased public health. Vaccination requirements are anything but new - dating back decades (and with vaccines that were new at the time as well). If you're concerned about long term vaccination risks, then you still don't understand how vaccinations work.AggiEE said:
Instead, we are all having to submit to a dragged out political song and dance so the establishment can reach their long-term societal control objectives.
I've never had an employer ask for a vaccination record in my life. Even when traveling overseas to disease hotspots they have never once mentioned vaccinations to anything.
Never have I. The people acting like these mandates are completely normal are off base. Never in our lifetime did people in private companies have to show vaccine records to keep a job. Healthcare and schools have always been the major exceptions but TX schools will give you an exemption easily.
What part of "near 100%" were you unable to read?
I've gone 18 months without any signs of Covid. I am
taking a calculated risk of potentially being exposed and getting it naturally vs a forced risk of a vaccine
If you are at high risk or feel more secure with the vaccine, go ahead and take it. I'm not claiming you shouldn't. I shouldn't be forced to. It's not about protecting anyone else at this point.
I've gone 18 months without any signs of Covid. I am
taking a calculated risk of potentially being exposed and getting it naturally vs a forced risk of a vaccine
If you are at high risk or feel more secure with the vaccine, go ahead and take it. I'm not claiming you shouldn't. I shouldn't be forced to. It's not about protecting anyone else at this point.
AggieFrog said:Never in our lifetime have we lived in a pandemic. Had a vaccine existed in 1918-1919, it would have been required as well.SoupNazi2001 said:
Never have I. The people acting like these mandates are completely normal are off base. Never in our lifetime did people in private companies have to show vaccine records to keep a job. Healthcare and schools have always been the major exceptions but TX schools will give you an exemption easily.
Your ability to re-create the past and know how things would have played out....at least qualify a tad vs making a factual statement about something that can never be proven.
If those vaccines are "near 100%" efficacy, then you can say the same for the mRNA vaccines at preventing hospitalization.AggiEE said:
What part of "near 100%" were you unable to read?
I've gone 18 months without any signs of Covid. I am
taking a calculated risk of potentially being exposed and getting it naturally vs a forced risk of a vaccine
If you are at high risk or feel more secure with the vaccine, go ahead and take it. I'm not claiming you shouldn't. I shouldn't be forced to. It's not about protecting anyone else at this point.
And it is still about protecting others at this point.
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