03_Aggie said:
How does any of that translate to requiring the donor be vaccinated also?
And, unless you doubt their story, why were they initially told in August that vaccination status wasn't an issue but now it is?
That quote was from your own link. Giving an unvaccinated dialysis patient a transplant raises their risk of dying from COVID from around 2% to over 20%. Of course vaccination is a requirementQuote:
"For transplant patients who contract COVID-19, the mortality rate ranges from about 20% to more than 30%. This shows the extreme risk that COVID-19 poses to transplant recipients after their surgeries," the health system told CBS4. The health system also noted that patients have been required to receive other vaccines, such as for hepatitis B, to help ensure a transplant won't be rejected.
oragator said:
The donor can transmit the virus to the new host and infect them.
And they probably updated the requirements when the vaccine got approved and they could do it legally.
oragator said:
Tests dont catch the virus for several days post infection in many cases.
oragator said:
Of course it doesn't eliminate risk by being vaccinated, but it substantially lowers it both in risk of infection and in the infection outcome. With limited kidneys and other organs available and the majority of people never coming off the list, you are going to give it to those with the best shot at a long term positive outcome. It's no different than what they do today across a variety of risk factors. And getting the vaccine is a voluntary decision, it's isn't even something outside of the patient's control like some other factors are.
Quote:
The patient, Leilani Lutali, told 9NEWS she originally found out about the hospital's policy after her donor, Jaimee Fougner, was asked about her vaccination status during some testing required prior to the procedure.
"She said, 'Oh, by the way, have you been vaccinated for COVID-19?' I explained to her that no I hadn't, and because of my religious beliefs I couldn't be vaccinated for it," Fougner said. "And she said 'well, unfortunately, then that means your journey ends here.'"
Both Lutali and her donor Fougner said their religious beliefs are keeping them from the vaccine because vaccine manufacturers used the fetal stem cell line in development.
Fougner, who is a medical assistant and was a medic in the United States Air Force, said she is not anti-vax.
"I get my flu shot every year," she said. "I've been vaccinated with all my childhood vaccines. In the military, you get a few extras for wherever you travel to. So we are not anti-vax. But for me religiously this vaccine, I cannot take."
Fougner said after doing further research, she has realized most modern medical products use the same stem cell line, and she has stopped using them. She said she believes God forgives "sins of ignorance."
Quote:
HealthOne, which operates a transplant center at Presbyterian/St. Luke's Hospital, said it handles transplants on a case-by-case basis. Physicians make the final decisions on the safest course of action for patients, according to a statement from HealthOne.
El Chupacabra said:
Perfect example of their body, their choice. But we all know that only applies to certain people and procedures, so good luck! We'd rather see you die from kidney failure than give you a chance!
It's not like the kidney is going to the next VAXXXED recipient on the list. Jaimee Fougner was going to give it to Lelani Lutali, not offer it up on the open market to the next person on the list.CondensedFoggyAggie said:El Chupacabra said:
Perfect example of their body, their choice. But we all know that only applies to certain people and procedures, so good luck! We'd rather see you die from kidney failure than give you a chance!
Yep, just like ongoing alcoholics are considered unsuitable for liver transplants.
No sense in wasting a perfectly fine and rare kidney on someone who has a lifestyle that has a much much higher chance of wasting it anyway.
I can pretty much guarantee that she's taken something sometime (or even often) that has used fetal cells in development or testing. The list is extensive. (Including the favorite treatment option for anti-vax covid sufferers see #15 under the prescription list)Duncan Idaho said:
Well I can guarantee her that at least one of the other drugs that she will take as a result of this transplant would have used fetal cells in development or testing. So I guess the only fair thing to do is honor her religious exemption and not perform the surgery.
El Chupacabra said:It's not like the kidney is going to the next VAXXXED recipient on the list. Jaimee Fougner was going to give it to Lelani Lutali, not offer it up on the open market to the next person on the list.CondensedFoggyAggie said:El Chupacabra said:
Perfect example of their body, their choice. But we all know that only applies to certain people and procedures, so good luck! We'd rather see you die from kidney failure than give you a chance!
Yep, just like ongoing alcoholics are considered unsuitable for liver transplants.
No sense in wasting a perfectly fine and rare kidney on someone who has a lifestyle that has a much much higher chance of wasting it anyway.
"I said I'll sign a medical waiver. I have to sign a waiver anyway for the transplant itself, releasing them from anything that could possibly go wrong," said Lutali. "It's surgery, it's invasive. I sign a waiver for my life. I'm not sure why I can't sign a waiver for the COVID shot."
"Here I am, willing to be a direct donor to her. It does not affect any other patient on the transplant list," said Fougner. "How can I sit here and allow them to murder my friend when I've got a perfectly good kidney and can save her life?"
oragator said:
Of course it doesn't eliminate risk by being vaccinated, but it substantially lowers it both in risk of infection and in the infection outcome. With limited kidneys and other organs available and the majority of people never coming off the list, you are going to give it to those with the best shot at a long term positive outcome. It's no different than what they do today across a variety of risk factors. And getting the vaccine is a voluntary decision, it's isn't even something outside of the patient's control like some other factors are.
