Salute The Marines said:

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Another Doug said:

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But they are doing what the FDA recommended

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Do you think a healthy 18 year old working in food service needs a booster?





Really?

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That's not the issue being discussed, or at least I don't think it is.

Why should those people not be allowed to get a booster?

KidDoc said:

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Jabin said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Another Doug said:

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But they are doing what the FDA recommended

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Do you think a healthy 18 year old working in food service needs a booster?





Really?

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That's not the issue being discussed, or at least I don't think it is.

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Yes indeed it is. Any 18+ person who has an "occupational hazard" job qualifies. This means contact with humans and basically anyone but shut-ins qualifies. It is the main reason the ACIP did not include that group.

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I thought that what was being discussed was whether she had gone against the FDA recommendations or not.

KidDoc said:

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Another Doug said:

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Why should those people not be allowed to get a booster?

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Because there is no proof it is needed to prevent serious disease. Why give any medication that is unproven? Everything has potential adverse effects.

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All the CDC and FDA has said so far is that 18-64 in those industries may get a shot. Is the problem 18 is too young to be give access to the booster or that the booster doesn't do anything for healthy people in that age range.

Thanks for you input doc.

I admit I am having trouble seeing the difference in what you are saying and what the CDC is saying, but I am trying. Here is my new interpretation based on what I have read from you and the CDC. I promise I am not being a smartass.


While the CDC does not say the group in question should get a booster, they are recommending they be allowed to. By allowing people get the booster, this can be seen as a defacto recommendation by the CDC that the booster is effective. And because boosters haven't been proven to be beneficial to healthy 18-64 people yet, some experts (including the majority of the ACIP, but not the FDA), don't think this group should have access to the booster.


I am glad I am Team Moderna and don't have to worry about this.

Another Doug said:

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Thanks for you input doc.

I admit I am having trouble seeing the difference in what you are saying and what the CDC is saying, but I am trying. Here is my new interpretation based on what I have read from you and the CDC. I promise I am not being a smartass.


While the CDC does not say the group in question should get a booster, they are recommending they be allowed to. By allowing people get the booster, this can be seen as a defacto recommendation by the CDC that the booster is effective. And because boosters haven't been proven to be beneficial to healthy 18-64 people yet, some experts (including the majority of the ACIP, but not the FDA), don't think this group should have access to have the booster.


I am glad I am Team Moderna and don't have to worry about this.

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Nothing wrong with discussion of data, that is one of the issues with the information age is people get personal and upset with discussion of whatever issue and that is often not productive.

I'm team Moderna myself and know my titers are very high still so this is not a personal issue outside of trying to advise the 2000+ families that ask me for advise.

Your terminology is just wrong, it not about the ACIP refusing access to a booster, it is do they ADVISE a booster. If someone wants a booster every month I don't think anyone would stop them, but for the vaccine experts to say you SHOULD get a vaccine is significant and based on extensive data that is not questionable. The current data set does not support that a booster dose is needed or beneficial for the vast majority of people but the CDC went ahead and ignored that data and advice from the ACIP and said anyone "at risk of exposure" should consider a Pfizer booster. This is in the hope and prayer that those who are on the Pfizer vaccine schedule will catch and spread less delta if they get a booster based on antibody titer data. This is not an unrealistic extrapolation of the current data set but it is unprecented to give CDC advise based on hopes not actual data. As I said weeks ago I think this is a knee jerk reaction by the administration to try and "do something" to control COVID that has very little basis in actual real life data.

Doc, thanks for your input. I am team Moderna also, 73, and still teaching. I have general and SPED kids and the SPED kids frequently need close contact to help them. (sitting at a desk that is touching their desk at face level with about two feet at max of separation.) Many on the spectrum do not mask. Masks are optional and I opt to mask, but I consider what I do high risk. We have MANY covid cases among the students and require no testing for them to return...so again high risk. I will get the moderna booster if and when it is recommended. But my 55 year old co teaching assistant is at the same risk as I am...and she works with those SPED kids exclusively..so actually higher risk. This decision just allows her to make the choice to get the booster if she wants to...it is just not about the 18 year old working at the drive through window.

Skip below because it is just venting on how hard it is to even keep the schools open during Covid. (why you hear from teacher's organizations) It take PEOPLE to run schools and support staffs are highly needed.

{Add to that there is such a custodian shortage (we are down to 6 for a huge campus, at one time pre covid had 20) that they are only able to clean one floor a day...so there is no sanitation or sanitization on a regular basis.) And our campus has had at least two staff fatalities from covid (both at the end of last year) and our neighboring high school has a teacher/coach currently on full life support fighting to live through it. We are also short on security, food services, bus drivers, paraprofessionals, critically short of subs (most are retired teachers not willing to take risks for 100 a day) and even teachers. We still have classes with no teacher of record..because we can't find people to even hire for the jobs.}

3rd Generation Ag said:

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Doc, thanks for your input. I am team Moderna also, 73, and still teaching. I have general and SPED kids and the SPED kids frequently need close contact to help them. (sitting at a desk that is touching their desk at face level with about two feet at max of separation.) Many on the spectrum do not mask. Masks are optional and I opt to mask, but I consider what I do high risk. We have MANY covid cases among the students and require no testing for them to return...so again high risk. I will get the moderna booster if and when it is recommended. But my 55 year old co teaching assistant is at the same risk as I am...and she works with those SPED kids exclusively..so actually higher risk. This decision just allows her to make the choice to get the booster if she wants to...it is just not about the 18 year old working at the drive through window.

Skip below because it is just venting on how hard it is to even keep the schools open during Covid. (why you hear from teacher's organizations) It take PEOPLE to run schools and support staffs are highly needed.

{Add to that there is such a custodian shortage (we are down to 6 for a huge campus, at one time pre covid had 20) that they are only able to clean one floor a day...so there is no sanitation or sanitization on a regular basis.) And our campus has had at least two staff fatalities from covid (both at the end of last year) and our neighboring high school has a teacher/coach currently on full life support fighting to live through it. We are also short on security, food services, bus drivers, paraprofessionals, critically short of subs (most are retired teachers not willing to take risks for 100 a day) and even teachers. We still have classes with no teacher of record..because we can't find people to even hire for the jobs.}

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We live in south carolina. My wife is an instructional coach here and your story is universal to just about every school. Sounds pretty much the same as her experience here.

3rd Generation Ag said:

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Doc, thanks for your input. I am team Moderna also, 73, and still teaching. I have general and SPED kids and the SPED kids frequently need close contact to help them. (sitting at a desk that is touching their desk at face level with about two feet at max of separation.) Many on the spectrum do not mask. Masks are optional and I opt to mask, but I consider what I do high risk. We have MANY covid cases among the students and require no testing for them to return...so again high risk. I will get the moderna booster if and when it is recommended. But my 55 year old co teaching assistant is at the same risk as I am...and she works with those SPED kids exclusively..so actually higher risk. This decision just allows her to make the choice to get the booster if she wants to...it is just not about the 18 year old working at the drive through window.

Skip below because it is just venting on how hard it is to even keep the schools open during Covid. (why you hear from teacher's organizations) It take PEOPLE to run schools and support staffs are highly needed.

{Add to that there is such a custodian shortage (we are down to 6 for a huge campus, at one time pre covid had 20) that they are only able to clean one floor a day...so there is no sanitation or sanitization on a regular basis.) And our campus has had at least two staff fatalities from covid (both at the end of last year) and our neighboring high school has a teacher/coach currently on full life support fighting to live through it. We are also short on security, food services, bus drivers, paraprofessionals, critically short of subs (most are retired teachers not willing to take risks for 100 a day) and even teachers. We still have classes with no teacher of record..because we can't find people to even hire for the jobs.}

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What was stopping her, or you, from getting a third shot prior to this?

Those kind of staffing issues aren't exclusive to schools. It's being seen EVERYWHERE. We have the same issues, if not worse, where i work in manufacturing. My team of 4 is down to 1 1/2, basically. I myself am doing the job of 3 people. And that 1/2 person is talking about leaving at year end. We were already short handed when it was 4. Which means it will be 100% on me to purchase all items and schedule production for a plant of 1500 people. Just me. We make surgical kits. In the midst of the worst supply chain I've ever seen. So no, it's not just schools.

KidDoc said:

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Yes staffing issue and working face to face with unmasked kids are rough, I'm in the same boat except I am seeing the sick ones with fever and coughing in my face.

That does not change the fact that there is NO EVIDENCE that a booster makes any difference outside of the 65+ and immunocomprised. I am not arguing about restricting or allowing boosters it is an argument about what health experts recommend and the power behind that recommendation. If an expert group recommends something it should be based on sound evidence and this is not based on anything but "doing something" to decrease case numbers.

They are looking at dropping antibody titers and extrapolating risk from those numbers. The real world data on lower risk patients does not currently support that theory as they seem to maintain robust T cell immunity even with dropping titers. Thus the reason for the ACIP to say hold up let's get more information first.

The CDC said no thanks we are going to advise this anyway because..... I believe because of political and social pressure.

It is very similar to mask mandates. There is no clear evidence they work especially in younger kids. But teachers and parents feel you must do something to stop the spread so they mask kids 2+. We also did things in the past like leeching and drilling holes in skulls for headaches. It is not wrong to ask for scientific evidence to make a scientific decision. Just doing something that seems right at the time is not always the best answer in retrospect.

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I work with a log of medical professionals and it is shocking to me to see how the tide is turning and how disgusted the professionals are by the CDC's actions.

What are considered "good" titer levels?