Salute The Marines said:

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Gordo14 said:

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Nobody thinks masks are the best way to limit infectious disease and hospitalization. Vaccines are the best way to limit infectious disease and hospitalization.

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So if we are vaccinated then we no longer need them?





Right?

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I think if we were all vaccinated then yes, mask would not have been required again late this summer.

Could it be that better diet, better sleep, exercise, etc have better but less immediate efficacy but a mask has a lower but more immediate efficacy? Lifestyle changes and losing weight takes time while the effect of a mask is almost immediate. Wouldn't a mask be a good "bridge" until better lifestyle choices take effect? Faucet not wrong but neither is making up.

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Gordo14 said:

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Nobody thinks masks are the best way to limit infectious disease and hospitalization. Vaccines are the best way to limit infectious disease and hospitalization.

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Ummm, I would say that the vast majority of the population has been duped into thinking masks are effective. When studies have shown them to be HIGHLY ineffective.

Think of how many people closely interacted with the vulnerable because both parties thought the masks were keeping them safe like dear leaders had consistently implied or stated emphatically.

I would argue that false confidence/comfort from crappy cloth masks has resulted in so many deaths that social distancing or other measures could have prevented.

But back to the OP's point...they should have been HAMMERING the importance of good health...eating healthy, exercising, losing weight, getting outside in the sun, taking vitamin D and other vitamins to boost immune system...could go on and on. But these clowns did not.

That should have been front and center IF THEY TRULY CARED. In general, even outside of Covid, it would have helped so many in this country. You know how many people were isolated, lonely, depressed, living in fear and stress who could have benefited greatly from adopting a healthy lifestyle and working out???

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Absolutely depends on where you are. If people believe in masks they'll wear them whether a mandate is in place or not. But there are lots of "follow the rules" / "don't make trouble" / "I'll be courteous" types who wore masks the day before the TX mandate ended and didn't the day after.

The change in behavior when the rule is changed gives you a good idea what people actually believe.

Salute The Marines said:

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Aston94 said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Gordo14 said:

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Nobody thinks masks are the best way to limit infectious disease and hospitalization. Vaccines are the best way to limit infectious disease and hospitalization.

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So if we are vaccinated then we no longer need them?





Right?

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I think if we were all vaccinated then yes, mask would not have been required again late this summer.

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So the vaccine only works if you wear a mask?

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Not what I said. If all were vaccinated then virus would still be around, but at much lower transmission and hospitalization rates. Much like we were at beginning of summer when mask mandates went away.

If you are wanting me to argue on behalf of masks you are barking up the wrong tree, but vaccines work. Look at transmission and hospitalization rates in UK if you want to know what it could look like here in US.

Deaths are way down in the UK but I'm not seeing much of a dent in cases

snowdog90 said:

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Gordo14 said:

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Nobody thinks masks are the best way to limit infectious disease and hospitalization. Vaccines are the best way to limit infectious disease and hospitalization.

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This is a big part of the problem, at least for me, regarding the vaccine...

The people telling us to get these relatively new vaccines were the same ones lying to us about masks. I'm not referring to you in particular, though I would bet you were a big masker, but Fauci and most liberals in power have lied about masks since the beginning.

Why would I trust anything they say? They lie, and not just about masks. For brevity, I'll stop here.

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No a big part of the problem is people listening to the government, politicians, social media, podcast celebs and random posters on the internet when it comes to healthcare. Turn off the tv, put down the cell phone and go see your doctor when it comes to your healthcare. He might tell you to get vaccinated and shockingly he will likely tell you to exercise, eat well, get good sleep and reduce stress too.

Even the most poorly educated Americans know that smoking is bad, living on cheeseburgers is bad and being obese is bad. They probably even know that exercise is good too yet nobody does this. Adopting a healthy lifestyle requires a mental and physical commitment over time. Nobody wants to put in the work and covid hasn't changed that.

Aston94 said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Aston94 said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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I know the vaccines work. But the messaging has been terrible. You can't expect people to buy in to vaccines when we turn around tell people nothing changes if they get it.

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The messaging has been horrible from the start. Having Covid kick up during a presidential election year and used as a political football could not have been worse.

Anti-vaxxers and pro-maskers are all virtue signaling at this point in my mind, just on different sides of the debate.

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Do you know any anti-vaxxers? I run in conservative circles and know ZERO people who are against vaccines. All of their children have had vaccines and they have had them at various times in their life. Just because they feel like waiting on this new vaccine doesn't make them anti-vax.

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I know: 1. People who are greatly opposed to any vaccines, have never had their children vaccinated at all; and 2. People who have all their vaccines but are vehemently opposed to the Covid vaccine. My use above of the term anti-vaxxer was for those who still won't get the Covid vaccine. Its effectiveness is not in question any longer and I don't understand the hesitancy.

Not interested in debating it, I have seen meny. many post on here, but the fact that the unvaccinated, making up less than 30% of our population, compose 95% of our hopitalizations, should tell you all you need to know about the effectiveness of the Covid vaccine.

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3. People who are greatly opposed to any vaccines, have never had their children vaccinated at all, but CRAVE Covid 19 vaccine (and mask) mandates and screech at anyone who has not been C19 vaccinated.


Added one for ya...

ttha_aggie_09 said:

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I'm confused because you clearly stated you're not interested in debating it and yet now you act like you want to have a discussion? Which is it?

Quote:

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2. People who have all their vaccines but are vehemently opposed to the Covid vaccine. My use above of the term anti-vaxxer was for those who still won't get the Covid vaccine. Its effectiveness is not in question any longer and I don't understand the hesitancy.

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I gave you a reason why I am hesitant to get the Covid vaccine and you were clearly not for open discussion until I responded. If you want to be an adult and have a conversation, fine. If you want to label me as an "anti-vaxxer" by your own standards, expect a snarky "forum 16" response.

Your claim on the effectiveness of natural immunity is valid but the data we do have strongly suggests similar if not more effective immune response than the vaccine. Until that data changes significantly, I am not going to be vaccinated... I am not anti-vaxx

And I have never advocated for people to not get the vaccine by "rolling the dice" and hopefully acquiring natural immunity. I am not sure why that seems to be the common rebuttal to anyone that dare questions the necessity of the vaccine after infection. Despite what you may think, there are quite a few people like myself that got Covid prior to availability of the vaccine, and are still hesitant to get it.

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Your response was snarky, and I am sure you can see that if you re-read it, but again happy to discuss. I didn't know the term "anti-vaxxer" was so powerful to some of you. I just meant it as some one who does not want to get the vaccine. I really try and not be on either side of this battle.

I don't think you are ever going to get clear evidence on natural immunity, primarily because it is difficult to track. I didn't think you advocated "rolling the dice" and I did not suggest such. The vaccine is very effective, and I don't understand not getting the vaccine, especially for those who have not had Covid before. But I also do not like the idea of government mandates requiring vaccination.

I already told you why you got a snarky response. This misapplication of the label anti-vaccine is extremely annoying. I don't know a single person that is anti-vaccine. I know several, myself included, that are not against the vaccine but choose not to get it due to natural immunity acquired. Most of which occurred prior to the vaccine.

The evidence that is documented from Spring 2020 to just before the vaccine roll out was pretty damn clear natural immunity is real and durable. Even Fauci admitted he didn't have a good reason for those with natural immunity to get the vaccine.

Moving forward we'll have issues studying it because a lot of people are getting the vaccine and not opting to ride out natural immunity. Nothing wrong with that decision, it just decreases the sample size. So the data will be harder to find than it already is (no mention of it on any mainstream news outlet).

The messaging has been horrible from all parties involved and the data and the opinions of medical professionals are all I really care about. The vaccine appears to be a very good decision for the majority. I applaud anyone who makes the decision for themselves and do not care whether someone vaccinated or not. It is a personal risk assessment and not my business. I will never make fun of someone that gets the vaccine which is not something that can be said about a lot of people that are hardcore vaccine mandate folks.