No it doesn't. And, well the shot doesn't keep your body from getting covid - so pretty good analogy.03_Aggie said:Kick-R said:
If you're reading this and don't have flood insurance, it's super cheap and can save you a couple hundred thousand dollars if something crazy happens (see the Northeast US this past week).
Apply same logic to vaccine and make a decision that works for you.
Wait, flood insurance doesn't keep my house from actually flooding?
Man says skipping vaccine is his life's 'biggest regret'
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Last: 3 yr ago by astros4545
bay fan said:
The odds of the unvaccinated getting a bad case of Covid go up with every new "jab". All things are no longer equal and Covid has proven to be a successful opportunist.
Sure, I may get it but my odds of both a severe case or a case at all decrease with every newly vaccinated person. Which side of that pendulum is the side to be on?
Sorry can you explain this?
Are you saying there will be higher percentages of unvax in hospitals with each jab or are you implying the job somehow mutates the virus and the unvax are exposed the more mutated/impactful virus?
I would assume with each jab that viral loads are less and therefore in general society at a whole is at a lower risk of infection. I would also assume not much has changed as far as "risk profile" for COVID 19 (even going back to pre-vaccine death trends based on age, comorbidity, etc) but you seem to be implying different?
Just curious and looking for clarification on your statement. thanks!
Most people run in really small circles of people and simply can't comprehend what you're saying. With 6 kids, 2 of them adopted from different countries, I have so many different connections that it's crazy...ramblin_ag02 said:
The exception is so common that I've seen in 3 times in 3 weeks in a tiny hospital in a tiny town. This "exception" is so common all the hospitals are full. This exception is common enough that several people who regularly post in this very forum had the same thing happen to them.
I'm not a pulmonologist working in a major hospital in a big city. I'm a small town family doc that sees inpatients on the side. I normally have 0-1 patients in the hospital and 2-3 when I'm on call on any given day. If I'm seeing this all the time, then every other inpatient doctor in Texas is seeing this all the time
racquetball buddies
running friends
work colleagues
church coleagues
youth group
5 different public schools
kids sports, music, academic activities
wife's friends
grad school contacts
multiple on-line communities
adoption communities
communities for medical conditions in my family - cancer, CP, mental health
The list goes on and on, and every community gives me a different, but progressively fuller, perspective on Covid. You really can't understand - that despite the internet - how small the communities are that most people choose to live in these days. You've got 700,000 dead Americans, and there are still millions of people who pretend it's not a real threat. Our isolation amazingly allows us to do this. It's more than just cognitive dissonance. People are actually that unaware.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
bay fan said:Back to the politics board.gkaggie08 said:
So your kids had the virus, you and your wife were close to them, though vaccinated, and it sounds like they had very mild symptoms(my conclusion), and you have quarantined.
Nothing wrong with that.
But why are you worrying 8 days later if you are 'out of the danger zone'? Your kids were never in the danger zone to begin with and you have the card that wards off the vaccine!
What's funny is your behavior is no different. You are just as extreme in your opinion and posts. You just justify it to yourself because you feel you are on the "right side" of the argument because you are vaccinated. Reality is both of y'all would be relegated to a Covid Crazy board if it existed.
Whether everyone one believes it or not, vaccinated people are NOT getting or spreading Covid at the SAME rate as the unvaccinated. Vaccinated people are not being hospitalized nor dying anywhere near the same rate as unvaccinated people.
One pool of potential hosts is decreasing with each vaccination making this opportunistic virus look for the low hanging fruit.
One pool of potential hosts is decreasing with each vaccination making this opportunistic virus look for the low hanging fruit.
bay fan said:
Whether everyone one believes it or not, vaccinated people are NOT getting or spreading Covid at the SAME rate as the unvaccinated. Vaccinated people are not being hospitalized nor dying anywhere near the same rate as unvaccinated people.
One pool of potential hosts is decreasing with each vaccination making this opportunistic virus look for the low hanging fruit.
What is the difference in the rate and what process are they utilizing to determine the rate?
While these stories are very sad, it's very hard to feel sympathetic for these people at this point.
03_Aggie said:bay fan said:
Whether everyone one believes it or not, vaccinated people are NOT getting or spreading Covid at the SAME rate as the unvaccinated. Vaccinated people are not being hospitalized nor dying anywhere near the same rate as unvaccinated people.
One pool of potential hosts is decreasing with each vaccination making this opportunistic virus look for the low hanging fruit.
What is the difference in the rate and what process are they utilizing to determine the rate?
I too would like to see the data on this. The data in Israel and the UK would tend to disagree. And we've heard that the vaccine doesn't work well against Delta or possibly this new mu variant. I'd like to see the data, though.
Why is it that the people that are terrified of the virus are so angry that there are those that aren't terrified?
Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
At least for me, I am not angry. Nor am I terrified of the virus.El Chupacabra said:
Why is it that the people that are terrified of the virus are so angry that there are those that aren't terrified?
I am irritated that you show up at the hospital when you catch COVID though.
And I also an irritated that too many of you leave loved ones behind and grievously impact their lives needlessly.
And all too often, your decision was made due to some article you read on the internet instead of through consultation with your doctor.
It's a great question. I'll add a couple more:El Chupacabra said:
Why is it that the people that are terrified of the virus are so angry that there are those that aren't terrified?
Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
Why are people terrified of vaccines? (And so angry at people who aren't?)
Why are people terrified of needles?
So much fear. Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
No disagreement here friend. Everyone can choose whether they want to take a vaccine or not - regardless of previous infection. I do wonder how long that immunity will last (as I do with vaccines).SoupNazi2001 said:Wakesurfer817 said:It's a great question. I'll add a couple more:El Chupacabra said:
Why is it that the people that are terrified of the virus are so angry that there are those that aren't terrified?
Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
Why are people terrified of vaccines? (And so angry at people who aren't?)
Why are people terrified of needles?
So much fear. Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
Why do people not understand that millions of people have had Covid, had no issues with it and recovered. They know exactly how their body responds to Covid and can choose whether they want to take a vaccine to lessen the severity of what they already had or not. Mine was mild, there's no reason for it.
wbt5845 said:At least for me, I am not angry. Nor am I terrified of the virus.El Chupacabra said:
Why is it that the people that are terrified of the virus are so angry that there are those that aren't terrified?
I am irritated that you show up at the hospital when you catch COVID though.
And I also an irritated that too many of you leave loved ones behind and grievously impact their lives needlessly.
And all too often, your decision was made due to some article you read on the internet instead of through consultation with your doctor.
Yet you admittedly continue to post articles hoping that someone will read them and it will drive their decision. Irony at its finest.
This is an interesting take to me and highlights how arguments on both sides of the table end up veering off.SoupNazi2001 said:Wakesurfer817 said:It's a great question. I'll add a couple more:El Chupacabra said:
Why is it that the people that are terrified of the virus are so angry that there are those that aren't terrified?
Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
Why are people terrified of vaccines? (And so angry at people who aren't?)
Why are people terrified of needles?
So much fear. Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
Why do people not understand that millions of people have had Covid, had no issues with it and recovered. They know exactly how their body responds to Covid and can choose whether they want to take a vaccine to lessen the severity of what they already had or not. Mine was mild, there's no reason for it.
When "calculating" the risk of covid, too many on the side that's more afraid of covid make broad sweeping generalizations about the disease. Since 500k people have died from the disease so you should be deathly afraid of it! Then when you mention hey listen, I'm 33 and in good shape, they default to anecdote - well this one 33 year old in good shape got very sick, so you could too and therefore should be terrified. Sure, but that's a very, very low probability event. It's like after a certain point, they turn their brain off to basic stats.
On the other end of the spectrum, those that are anti-vaccine may better assess their respective risk to the disease, but then immediately default to anecdote with respect to the risk of the vaccine. Well, I don't want to get infected because my buddy's uncle's nephew got sick for 6 days and grew a horse's head. Hmm, that doesn't sound statistically significant to me.
Here's the math as it stands to me.
I am very low risk of getting seriously ill. Let's say 0.05%. On the other side of the spectrum, the chance of a seriously negative side effect is even lower because I don't care about anecdotes that occur six standard deviations away from the mean. Let's call that risk 0.005% but in truth it is even lower.
Should I mitigate a very low risk event by engaging in an even lower risk event that costs me effectively nothing? Makes sense to me.
Actually agree with you. Get the vaccine. You just don't know in the end. A lot may just boil down to the number of receptors that one has in their cells vs others. More receptors = more of opportunities for the virus to copy, multiply and take over the body....ramblin_ag02 said:
2 weeks ago, I had a 34 year old who was a little overweight with no past medical hx spend a week in the hospital and get sent home on oxygen. Currently have a 45 and a 50 year old. Both in great shape with no prior medical history. One's been in the hospital 12 days and can't get off high flow oxygen. Sats drop even getting up to go to the bathroom. The other's only been here a day, but he is as sick as you can be without doing dangerous interventions like intubation. Newest guy already had COVID last year too. All 3 healthy people with manual labor jobs (2 x oilfield and one ranch hand), non-smokers with no past medical history.
So from my point of view, it is very reckless for you not to get vaccinated. I've taken care of 3 people in the hospital in the last 3 weeks that are all healthier than you. Unless your age and BMI are both under 25, then we've probably admitted people just like you. And my hospital is tiny. We have 12 beds and see less than 300 per month in our ER. The town population is 2000-3000. Major hospitals are full of people just like you who think they are low risk when they're not.
Delta is a different beast. Get vaccinated already. We're all tired of watching people get sick for no reason.
It will be interesting to see why it effects some like this and others less seriously.
Now, I still argue what "good" or "great" shape means. Take an Olympic heptathlete or world class triathlete vs a "normally active" person. In my mind, to be in "great" shape must be earned with years of almost tortuous beat down grinding training combined with the right amount of rest, continuously done with little to no stoppage to that training. Triathletes, physique athletes, pro and college athletes, super fitness enthusiasts and the like. Great shape is head turning shape. Good shape is obviously much less involved and most of the "weekend" gym warriors and enthusiast who may not really have a real training program or goal but do workout 1-3 times a week. Outside of that, you have diminishing levels from there all the way down to the typical couch potato. I'd argue most of the "great" shape folks fall into the 2nd or 3rd bracket as when compared to the average American, they are still way better off. So using the term great is an easy mistake to make. I'd further argue that of the group I'd label as in "great" shape, there have been very very very few of those types ever hospitalized.
You're a doctor, so stop me if you'd disagree with my comments above. But being in the gym and athlete community for years, I've come to personally question non athlete's (not you, you may be a beast in the gym or on the track-no idea) definitions of certain levels of "shape", and have instead relied more on strength coaches and very good and experienced CPTs (not your normal college student who is a trainer) for clarity on these matters. Which is why I always question any news story on "great" shaped individuals who die or have serious complications from any disease. Because "great" shape means different things to different people. The ole "avid marathon runner dies from covid" story makes a great headline, but what is "avid marathon runner" mean. They train almost 4-6 x a week all year every year to destroy their times from the last race, or they do this for fun and don't care about the time (still a marathon), or they ran a marathon 10 years ago and haven't trained at all in the last couple of years for anything.
Terrified of vaccines? I'd ask the granolas that were antivaxxers until the covid vax came along why they were afraid of vaccines and now worship at the alter of the covid vax. Most covid 'anti' vaxxers are against it because it's not really slowing the spread and mask nonsense is still demanded regardless of vax status.Wakesurfer817 said:It's a great question. I'll add a couple more:El Chupacabra said:
Why is it that the people that are terrified of the virus are so angry that there are those that aren't terrified?
Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
Why are people terrified of vaccines? (And so angry at people who aren't?)
Why are people terrified of needles?
So much fear. Scared and angry is no way to live your life.
Then there are people like me, who don't really see a need for a vaccine for a virus that most likely won't have a major effect on my life. Similar to how it had zero (except for taste/smell issues) effect on my wife.
As far as needles, I couldn't tell you, I donate blood as often as possible. Guess it is one of those phobias like spiders or flying.
Let me put it this way. These guys have no medical problems despite being under medical care. They all work 8-12 hours of manual labor in the Texas heat without any issues. I doubt any of them lift competitively or win marathons, but as far as I'm concerned they're in great shape.Quote:
Which is why I always question any news story on "great" shaped individuals who die or have serious complications from any disease.
On the flip side, there has been some literature that shows that ultra-elite athletes tend to do worse with serious illnesses like pneumonia than your average health nut weekend warrior. I've seen data on this for marathoners and people below 6% body fat.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Thank you for your input. Interesting on the pneumonia studies. I do wonder what health problems those below certain BF% can have and I do know some women who stay below 10% tend to have issues.
The professionals are compromisedWakesurfer817 said:Let's say it was free. And you lived on the top of Mount Everest. Would you refuse coverage?waitwhat? said:No I don't, because I'm not in a flood prone area. So if you mean sometimes you can tell where someone is geographically, then you're right.Wakesurfer817 said:I'm guessing you have no idea how much flood insurance costs. Every now and then on this site you can tell exactly where somebody is in life.waitwhat? said:Wakesurfer817 said:
Car accidents. Floods. Getting sued for a silly reason. Colon, breast and prostate cancer.
All relatively rare events. And yet we buy auto and flood and umbrella policies. We get colonoscopies and have our doctors screen us. And somehow now we decide that because it's "low risk" and we "understand the data", we decline to get vaccinated.
Such strange times we live in.
This is pretty silly. You get flood insurance if you're in a flood prone area and you get car insurance 1) because you're forced to in order to drive on public roads, and 2) because getting in a car accident at 40 and otherwise healthy is more likely to cause serious financial and medical strain than Covid IF you catch it.
IF you get colon cancer it's likely to get pretty bad and deadly. The same can't be said for this guy and catching Covid, it sounds like it was much more likely to be a nothingburger but didn't turn out that way after all.
Your risk assessment is obviously off if you're honestly comparing these ev
My point is that the risk management equation has 2 sides - the probability of an adverse event, and the cost of the hedge.
With regard to the vaccine - the professionals in health risk management are telling us - almost universally - that the hedge is in the money. AND they're putting their money where there mouth is - they're getting vaccinated. If you choose to decline to vaccinate, in my opinion, you're making a poor risk management decision.
There's a saying in the trade business - "we live in the tails". Hedge accordingly.
and they don't have time machines
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