Is covid being spread in hospitals?

2,939 Views | 24 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Texaggie7nine
88planoAg
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AG
My dad is being admitted to Sugarland Methodist after falling 2x today, second time my mom called 911. Lots of tests, low hemoglobin so he is getting a blood transfusion and being admitted. Thus the question about covid and hospitals.

Eta he is vaccinated and covid negative upon admission. He is 82.
Gordo14
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Yes. Almost certainly. Before the vaccine and delta variant, my friend who is a resident mentioned that it wasn't uncommon for people to come into the hospital for non-covid reasons, test negative, and then two weeks later test positive for COVID. This is part of why a lot of hospitals have been mandating the vaccine for employees. Sure it can't stop everything, but dropping the chances of spread between people by 40, 50, 60, 70% makes a huge difference when you extrapolate it out across all potential interactions in the hospital. The last thing we need is for hospitals to be like schools in terms of community spread.
bay fan
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S
Where do the sickest Covid patients go? The ER to start and then they are admitted. Your dad is precisely why Hospital personnel all should be vaccinated, to avoid inadvertently spreading it to a patient. For your families sake, I hope he is vaccinated. Wishing you positive news.
AggieUSMC
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AG
Nosocomial infection is always a risk and always has been. Not just with COVID.
Teslag
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I think it's reasonable to assume it's spread everywhere which is why everyone should get vaccinated.
KidDoc
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bay fan said:

Where do the sickest Covid patients go? The ER to start and then they are admitted. Your dad is precisely why Hospital personnel all should be vaccinated, to avoid inadvertently spreading it to a patient. For your families sake, I hope he is vaccinated. Wishing you positive news.
That is a good theory but it is proven that Delta can be spread by vaccinated people. It does help decrease the risk but what you posted is not correct.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
bay fan
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S
KidDoc said:

bay fan said:

Where do the sickest Covid patients go? The ER to start and then they are admitted. Your dad is precisely why Hospital personnel all should be vaccinated, to avoid inadvertently spreading it to a patient. For your families sake, I hope he is vaccinated. Wishing you positive news.
That is a good theory but it is proven that Delta can be spread by vaccinated people. It does help decrease the risk but what you posted is not correct.


Help me understand? I believe being vaccinated will aid the outcome should one become exposed, hence my best wishes. Additionally, though not fool proof, you are less likely to get it from a vaccinated person then an unvaccinated person simply due to the odds. A doctor yesterday posted here the figure was 60% less likely to get Covid if vaccinated which is why I feel higher vaccination rates decrease inadvertent spread. I would love to better understand my error?
Dad
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AG
bay fan said:

Where do the sickest Covid patients go? The ER to start and then they are admitted. Your dad is precisely why Hospital personnel all should be vaccinated if they don't have antibodies already, to avoid inadvertently spreading it to a patient. For your families sake, I hope he is vaccinated. Wishing you positive news.

This would make more sense.
La migra52
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bay fan said:

KidDoc said:

bay fan said:

Where do the sickest Covid patients go? The ER to start and then they are admitted. Your dad is precisely why Hospital personnel all should be vaccinated, to avoid inadvertently spreading it to a patient. For your families sake, I hope he is vaccinated. Wishing you positive news.
That is a good theory but it is proven that Delta can be spread by vaccinated people. It does help decrease the risk but what you posted is not correct.


Help me understand? I believe being vaccinated will aid the outcome should one become exposed, hence my best wishes. Additionally, though not fool proof, you are less likely to get it from a vaccinated person then an unvaccinated person simply due to the odds. A doctor yesterday posted here the figure was 60% less likely to get Covid if vaccinated which is why I feel higher vaccination rates decrease inadvertent spread. I would love to better understand my error?


Didn't the CDC say they found the viral load in the unvaccinated person and vaccinated person is the same ?? If so, anyone is likely to spread it. At this point , the vaccine is for those that want to protect themselves.
KidDoc
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AG
La Migra explained it- and I did say it will help but it is no guarantee with the Delta variant that being vaccinated won't allow you to infect others in whatever setting including hospitals.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Aston94
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KidDoc said:

La Migra explained it- and I did say it will help but it is no guarantee with the Delta variant that being vaccinated won't allow you to infect others in whatever setting including hospitals.
No guarantee, but lessens the risk and chances significantly.


You have posted several items showing your concern with Delta and the vaccine. While the vaccines are not preventing the spread as well with the new variant as they were before, they do significantly lessen the symptoms and severity of the virus, so if all were vaccinated we would still have some spread, but the spread would be much less and we would all see it as a cold like symptom, with no real concern as to its transmission. And that would arguably be the best case scenario where it would spread through population who are vaccinated, so we would all get natural immunity as well.

FWIW this appears to be what is happening right now in the UK, where they are still getting a large number of positive tests, but hospitalization and deaths are way down, so virus is spreading somewhat through a vaccinated population, with minimal risk.
03_Aggie
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Aston94 said:

KidDoc said:

La Migra explained it- and I did say it will help but it is no guarantee with the Delta variant that being vaccinated won't allow you to infect others in whatever setting including hospitals.
No guarantee, but lessens the risk and chances significantly.


You have posted several items showing your concern with Delta and the vaccine. While the vaccines are not preventing the spread as well with the new variant as they were before, they do significantly lessen the symptoms and severity of the virus, so if all were vaccinated we would still have some spread, but the spread would be much less and we would all see it as a cold like symptom, with no real concern as to its transmission. And that would arguably be the best case scenario where it would spread through population who are vaccinated, so we would all get natural immunity as well.

FWIW this appears to be what is happening right now in the UK, where they are still getting a large number of positive tests, but hospitalization and deaths are way down, so virus is spreading somewhat through a vaccinated population, with minimal risk.



Anything out there actually supporting this? If you aren't regularly testing people you actually have no idea on the ability/rate of spread. CDC said even asymptomatic, vaccinated, people carried large viral loads.

I don't think anyone knows for a fact because it's not something we've actually tried to track and most of the idea is assumptions based on prior vaccine use. Is it a logical assumption? Sure. Is it known to be the case with Covid? Not so sure, delta variant seems to indicate otherwise.
Aston94
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As I indicated it appears that the UK would be evidence of spread within vaccinated, but not leading to increase in hospitalization or death rates.
03_Aggie
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Sorry, more with regards to the "spread would be much less,"not the severity of the symptoms.
Aston94
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Well look at who is hospitalized, 95-96% are non vaccinated while 70% of population is vaccinated. So 30% of population is causing 95% of hospitalizations.

Data shows that vaccines are at a minimum 50% effective at preventing a person from contracting Covid, so at a minimum full vaccination would mean a drop in cases by 50% in the unvaccinated population should they be vaccinated.
03_Aggie
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Aston94 said:

Well look at who is hospitalized, 95-96% are non vaccinated while 70% of population is vaccinated. So 30% of population is causing 95% of hospitalizations.


But that speaks to the effectiveness of the vaccine as it relates to Covid symptoms, not ones ability to carry and transmit the virus



Quote:

Data shows that vaccines are at a minimum 50% effective at preventing a person from contracting Covid, so at a minimum full vaccination would mean a drop in cases by 50% in the unvaccinated population should they be vaccinated.


The challenge is this seems all to be on the basis of those that have symptoms bad enough to get tested and/or visit a hospital. The great unknown is the number of infections, amongst vaccinated and unvaccinated, that do not seek a test or show up at the hospital.

So I guess if the view is slow the spread to not overwhelm the hospitals then pushing the vaccine helps with that. The problem is there's also a message of pushing the vaccine in order to stop the spread and prevent the creation of a variant that would not be covered by the vaccine. In that scenario I don't think there's anything that shows that to be true and could argue the delta variant shows it is not the case.
Aston94
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No, I think the idea is that the vaccine prevents severe cases. Like I said earlier, the best of both worlds would be to have vaccine to prevent significant cases and then be exposed to the virus and have natural immunity, gaining that natural immunity without fear of having a case that will put you in the hospital.

But Pfizer's own data presented to FDA showed a 50% reduction in transmission if you had received vaccine. I assume in a study setting they are testing everyone and not just those who show symptoms.
bay fan
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S
La migra52 said:

bay fan said:

KidDoc said:

bay fan said:

Where do the sickest Covid patients go? The ER to start and then they are admitted. Your dad is precisely why Hospital personnel all should be vaccinated, to avoid inadvertently spreading it to a patient. For your families sake, I hope he is vaccinated. Wishing you positive news.
That is a good theory but it is proven that Delta can be spread by vaccinated people. It does help decrease the risk but what you posted is not correct.


Help me understand? I believe being vaccinated will aid the outcome should one become exposed, hence my best wishes. Additionally, though not fool proof, you are less likely to get it from a vaccinated person then an unvaccinated person simply due to the odds. A doctor yesterday posted here the figure was 60% less likely to get Covid if vaccinated which is why I feel higher vaccination rates decrease inadvertent spread. I would love to better understand my error?


Didn't the CDC say they found the viral load in the unvaccinated person and vaccinated person is the same ?? If so, anyone is likely to spread it. At this point , the vaccine is for those that want to protect themselves.
I don't disagree but if a vaccinated person is still 60% less likely to get Covid, there are simply fewer vaccinated, positive people to get it from. Of course it's possible, just less likely.
Tabasco
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88planoAg said:

My dad is being admitted to Sugarland Methodist after falling 2x today, second time my mom called 911. Lots of tests, low hemoglobin so he is getting a blood transfusion and being admitted. Thus the question about covid and hospitals.

Eta he is vaccinated and covid negative upon admission. He is 82.


I'm in Sugar Land (Greatwood [that's what she said]).
Let me know if you need anything
Gordo14
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KidDoc said:

La Migra explained it- and I did say it will help but it is no guarantee with the Delta variant that being vaccinated won't allow you to infect others in whatever setting including hospitals.


Sure, but that's fundamentally different than saying being vaccinated does nothing to slow transmission in hospitals. The vaccines have still shown efficacy against COVID therefore vaccines still reduce spread. The Moderna vaccine for instance has been shown to possibly have an efficacy of upwards of 70% against Delta still. The way people are talking about the vaccines implies that they have 0% efficacy. Sure id you get infected with the vaccine you can still transmit the virus. But if you have the Moderna vaccine you're 70% less likely to catch it than an unvaccinated person in a given exposure. The next person down the infection chain (if they are vaccinated now only has a 30% chance of running into while you have COVID, and then would only have a 30% chance of catching it if you did have it. So now for this hypothetical path of transmission to occur it's 91% less likely than if the people involved were unvaccinated. That's why vaccination still matters for transmission purposes. People aren't appreciating the effect this has on a larger scale.
88planoAg
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Tabasco said:

88planoAg said:

My dad is being admitted to Sugarland Methodist after falling 2x today, second time my mom called 911. Lots of tests, low hemoglobin so he is getting a blood transfusion and being admitted. Thus the question about covid and hospitals.

Eta he is vaccinated and covid negative upon admission. He is 82.


I'm in Sugar Land (Greatwood [that's what she said]).
Let me know if you need anything
Thanks Tabasco. We've chatted before, during Harvey. I appreciate that.
bay fan
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Thanks Gordo. I am glad someone understands what I said. I don't see a flaw in that logic, still.
Tabasco
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AG
I remember now, and I think I recall roughly where they live, if they are in the same place. Actually in GW, and really close to me. PM me if you need anything. We are home a lot... tend to to work at various places in Houston, but we are both home by lunch most days. If your mom needs me to grab groceries, or anything else, just let me know. I will PM you my cell so you can just text. Feel free to give it to your mom too.
Tabasco
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PM sent with contact info.
AJ02
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But I wonder if there is a tendency for vaccinated people to be a bit more "carefree" and, since they show fewer symptoms while still having the same viral load as an unvaccinated person....are they actually quite possibly slightly uninhibited and spreading COVID a bit more than they even realize? a) because they think "I'm vaccinated so I can relax" and b) they're less likely to show symptoms so they don't even realize they're sick and don't bother to get tested?

Not out of recklessness, but just human nature to let your guard down.
Texaggie7nine
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Father-in-law passed last week due to Covid complications. He became ill a week and a half after visiting his son in the hospital after a car crash.
7nine
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