MaxPower said:

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KlinkerAg11 said:

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Kids for sure spread it.

Issue is kids are always sick and it's hard to tell if a kid has Covid or a cold.

Which adds to Covid spreading in kids.

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This. My kids have been sick for over a week and one had a kid in his class test positive. I took them in last Saturday even before news of that kid and they were negative for rona, flu, and strep. They were still sick end of this week so took them to the pediatrician and the one with the fewest symptoms tested positive for RSV, rhinovirus and a bacterial infection. Still no rona.

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This has been what I have been seeing in clinic for the last few months. I had one toddler that ended up in the ER due to respiratory issues and tested positive for RSV, Parainfluenza, rhinovirus. COVID is no big deal to these kids but their immune deficit these young kids had from being quarantined for roughly half of their life has been brutal. It has been a very odd summer for pediatric infectious disease and no telling what the winter holds.

KidDoc said:

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MaxPower said:

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KlinkerAg11 said:

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Kids for sure spread it.

Issue is kids are always sick and it's hard to tell if a kid has Covid or a cold.

Which adds to Covid spreading in kids.

---

This. My kids have been sick for over a week and one had a kid in his class test positive. I took them in last Saturday even before news of that kid and they were negative for rona, flu, and strep. They were still sick end of this week so took them to the pediatrician and the one with the fewest symptoms tested positive for RSV, rhinovirus and a bacterial infection. Still no rona.

---

This has been what I have been seeing in clinic for the last few months. I had one toddler that ended up in the ER due to respiratory issues and tested positive for RSV, Parainfluenza, rhinovirus. COVID is no big deal to these kids but their immune deficit these young kids had from being quarantined for roughly half of their life has been brutal. It has been a very odd summer for pediatric infectious disease and no telling what the winter holds.

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We should absolutely be appalled at what we did to children (and are still doing) throughout this.

Salute The Marines said:

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KidDoc said:

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MaxPower said:

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KlinkerAg11 said:

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Kids for sure spread it.

Issue is kids are always sick and it's hard to tell if a kid has Covid or a cold.

Which adds to Covid spreading in kids.

---

This. My kids have been sick for over a week and one had a kid in his class test positive. I took them in last Saturday even before news of that kid and they were negative for rona, flu, and strep. They were still sick end of this week so took them to the pediatrician and the one with the fewest symptoms tested positive for RSV, rhinovirus and a bacterial infection. Still no rona.

---

This has been what I have been seeing in clinic for the last few months. I had one toddler that ended up in the ER due to respiratory issues and tested positive for RSV, Parainfluenza, rhinovirus. COVID is no big deal to these kids but their immune deficit these young kids had from being quarantined for roughly half of their life has been brutal. It has been a very odd summer for pediatric infectious disease and no telling what the winter holds.

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We should absolutely be appalled at what we did to children (and are still doing) throughout this.

---

Glad to have been in Humble ISD. Minimal disruption in the past year.

300 kids at Kingwood High with COVID. My only concern is that the low vax rates are gonna keep them from competing in sports that they have trained a long time for.

Also, we've got a lot of unvaccinated parents in denial right now. My kids have people all around them in every class with symptoms. Sure, some of it is other things, but it's a ton of COVID. These parents are acting like they can keep it out of the house, but the kids are bringing it home every day, ala Masque of the Red Death. You're getting it. And I'm going to lose a few more friends. I just don't know which ones yet.

There are a few things we should've been prepared to try in the absence of a vaccine for young children. Setting standards for ventilation, outdoor glasses, proper distancing, and yes, mandating of masks can all work as part of a layered approach. Being fatalistic about it makes no sense.

People hate the idea of mandating masks, though. But if kids are taught to wear them properly, and it is enforced, maybe we can actually get through a school year without shutting down schools (which is already being done btw).

This is data from the first week of school. AISD and DISD aren't in the top 30 of cases despite being some of the largest districts in the state. And they have mask mandates. HISD didn't start till 8/23 (Data is through 8/22).

Conspicuous by their absence:
-Houston (@HoustonISD),
-Dallas (@dallasschools), and
-Austin (@AustinISD)… https://t.co/prLJA1Uzyb

— Harry Thomas (@DrHarryThomas) August 30, 2021

gunan01 said:

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There are a few things we should've been prepared to try in the absence of a vaccine for young children. Setting standards for ventilation, outdoor glasses, proper distancing, and yes, mandating of masks can all work as part of a layered approach. Being fatalistic about it makes no sense.

People hate the idea of mandating masks, though. But if kids are taught to wear them properly, and it is enforced, maybe we can actually get through a school year without shutting down schools (which is already being done btw).

This is data from the first week of school. AISD and DISD aren't in the top 30 of cases despite being some of the largest districts in the state. And they have mask mandates. HISD didn't start till 8/23 (Data is through 8/22).

Conspicuous by their absence:
-Houston (@HoustonISD),
-Dallas (@dallasschools), and
-Austin (@AustinISD)… https://t.co/prLJA1Uzyb

— Harry Thomas (@DrHarryThomas) August 30, 2021

---

You may not like this, but when my 11 year old came home with COVID, my wife got mildly ill and never took a test. I never took a test. We never tested our 5 vaccinated kids. We never saw our daughter on the school dashboard, even though we kept her out 10 days. Those numbers are a joke. It's everywhere. If your school wants to close, find another school...one that is dealing with reality.

All those low numbers are doing is giving unvaccinated parents a false sense of security. It's coming.

Nobody asked where your child was when they were out for ten days? Our school is on us like white in rice if we are out for one day unplanned.

Some people want kids to suffer in masks so bad it's all they think about, and will justify any reason they can to do it.

We had a covid positive in our 9 year olds class last week. They let us know and then we kept trucking on and class continued. Didn't test our 9 year old either. What's the point and why would we?

Salute The Marines said:

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Some people want kids to suffer in masks so bad it's all they think about, and will justify any reason they can to do it.

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I have kids in elementary. I can assure you that at our school they care a lot less about masks than the parents. Like none of them care at all. I'm not pro mask or anything but I've yet to find a elementary kid that cared at all.

t - cam said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Some people want kids to suffer in masks so bad it's all they think about, and will justify any reason they can to do it.

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I have kids in elementary. I can assure you that at our school they care a lot less about masks than the parents. Like none of them care at all. I'm not pro mask or anything but I've yet to find a elementary kid that cared at all.

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Luckily by this time next week it will be non-issue when the Texas Supreme Court brings the hammer down.

Ya most kids don't really care. Unless they're whiny..or soft.

Salute The Marines said:

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t - cam said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Some people want kids to suffer in masks so bad it's all they think about, and will justify any reason they can to do it.

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I have kids in elementary. I can assure you that at our school they care a lot less about masks than the parents. Like none of them care at all. I'm not pro mask or anything but I've yet to find a elementary kid that cared at all.

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Luckily by this time next week it will be non-issue when the Texas Supreme Court brings the hammer down.

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I hope not, that's too much government. These school boards should get to make their own ruling based on local factors.

t - cam said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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t - cam said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Some people want kids to suffer in masks so bad it's all they think about, and will justify any reason they can to do it.

---

I have kids in elementary. I can assure you that at our school they care a lot less about masks than the parents. Like none of them care at all. I'm not pro mask or anything but I've yet to find a elementary kid that cared at all.

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Luckily by this time next week it will be non-issue when the Texas Supreme Court brings the hammer down.

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I hope not, that's too much government. These school boards should get to make their own ruling based on local factors.

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Still too much government. Let the individual make the choice.

Local factors or not - the facts remain the same. Masks do nothing to stop the spread.

gunan01 said:

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Nobody asked where your child was when they were out for ten days? Our school is on us like white in rice if we are out for one day unplanned.

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Not any more. The guvner wants kids back in school, come hell or high water. So our district has been a leader, I would say nationally, in this regard. By the same token, you bring the kids back, you're gonna have more sick days. Well, apparently the state still holds districts accountable for attendance numbers with respect to funding, but we've basically thumbed our nose at the state and said, "Look, if you want in person school, you can't have it both ways. If you have COVID, stay at home, no questions asked, but if your brother isn't actively sick, send him to school." See no evil, hear no evil. Along those lines, they've now decided that kids with good grades can exempt finals, even if they have poor attendance. This no longer encourages sick kids to come to school. So what if the state doesn't like it.

Before delta, kids were very poor vectors of transmission. With delta their ability to transmit the disease is potentially increased, but much less so than adults.

So relative to the overall infectivity of delta, kids are still likely poor vectors of transmission. But it definitely seems that they are much more capable of spreading delta than prior variants.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Before delta, kids were very poor vectors of transmission. With delta their ability to transmit the disease is potentially increased, but much less so than adults.

So relative to the overall infectivity of delta, kids are still likely poor vectors of transmission. But it definitely seems that they are much more capable of spreading delta than prior variants.

---

Is this based on some sort of data or study? Viral shedding comparisons for all variants of children? The mask comparison study done by the cdc shows no difference in schools with or without mandates. This is a very hard pill for drs to swallow, and those conclusions were left out of the study. It really feels like confirmation bias is at work and we REALLY want to jum on anecdotal numbers, inconsistently reported data to compare, etc. Basically the exact thing the drs were criticizing anti maskers for doing a year ago.

I can accept truths either way. I just want clear answers and not hypotheses unsupported by study conclusions.

KidDoc said:

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cc_ag92 said:

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What precautions do you think schools should implement? Do you think there's anything they can do to slow the spread? I'm curious because I know our local elementary schools are really struggling right now. Lots of unfilled sub vacancies, classes with half of the students sick, etc.

---

Don't send kids to school sick. This is a cultural issue that I struggle with as much as anyone with my work- but if you have symptoms you need to stay home until you know it isn't COVID.

If you think it is allergies, check pollen.com. If there are no new pollens popping up is it NOT allergies (unless you are allergic to indoor stuff but then it shouldn't start suddenly).

Good hand hygiene, good ventilation likely helps. In the middle/high schools stagger class transfers so not EVERY kid is in the cramped hallways at the same time. Space desks out if at all possible, I know the CDC said 3 feet is probably ok but more is better.

The bottom line though is every teacher, student, and parent should just assume they are going to get exposed. If not in the next few months then in the next few years. Get your rest, exercise, vitamins, and vaccine especially if you have any risk factors.

For the 12+ age I've been watching the myocarditis reports and they don't seem to really be going up as more and more get vaccine so I would strongly consider vaccinating your teens at this point as the vaccines do decrease the spread-- roughly 60% by most estimates.

---

is there any data reference points for vaccine reducing spread? ive hears some say theres no data that it decreases spread, which doesnt make sense to me but havent seen anything.

Kids are more like covid matrices or even tensors

KidDoc said:

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cc_ag92 said:

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What precautions do you think schools should implement? Do you think there's anything they can do to slow the spread? I'm curious because I know our local elementary schools are really struggling right now. Lots of unfilled sub vacancies, classes with half of the students sick, etc.

---

If you think it is allergies, check pollen.com. If there are no new pollens popping up is it NOT allergies (unless you are allergic to indoor stuff but then it shouldn't start suddenly).

---

KidDoc, always appreciate your input as it is the very rational on this board.

I would somewhat disagree with this statement though. At least in our rural setting, pollen may stay the same, but we are in the middle of harvest and tillage. There are tons of local activities, including mowing the grass that can set off allergies without the local pollen count being high. Agricultural dust is miserable this time of year.

Corn and sorghum harvest was very delayed and it spikes allergies here every year.

gunan01 said:

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This is extremely frustrating to say the least. We've had 1.5 years to prepare for the contingency of this school year being affected by the virus. To have no top-down plan for mitigating exposure is laughable.

"Just be prepared to get it" if you have a school-aged kid is a failed fatalistic way of thinking. ESP when dealing with a potentially deadly virus that leaves 5-15% of those that get it with long-term consequences.

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Link to the 5-15% with severe consequences data? Feels like this has been disproven repeatedly on here.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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gunan01 said:

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This is extremely frustrating to say the least. We've had 1.5 years to prepare for the contingency of this school year being affected by the virus. To have no top-down plan for mitigating exposure is laughable.

"Just be prepared to get it" if you have a school-aged kid is a failed fatalistic way of thinking. ESP when dealing with a potentially deadly virus that leaves 5-15% of those that get it with long-term consequences.

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Link to the 5-15% with severe consequences data? Feels like this has been disproven repeatedly on here.

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It has but he keeps repeating it to promote the fear.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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gunan01 said:

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This is extremely frustrating to say the least. We've had 1.5 years to prepare for the contingency of this school year being affected by the virus. To have no top-down plan for mitigating exposure is laughable.

"Just be prepared to get it" if you have a school-aged kid is a failed fatalistic way of thinking. ESP when dealing with a potentially deadly virus that leaves 5-15% of those that get it with long-term consequences.

---

Link to the 5-15% with severe consequences data? Feels like this has been disproven repeatedly on here.

---

I see one category is over 5, so it's reasonable to say that group has severe consequences in 5-15. It is nothing but fear mongering for the other categories.

Drs Ioannidis & Axfors at Stanford:

Age Infection Survival Rate
0-19 99.9973%
20-29 99.986%
30-39 99.969%
40-49 99.918%
50-59 99.73%
60-69 99.41%
70+ 97.6% (non-inst.)
70+ 94.5% (all)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.08.21260210v1

BCG Disciple said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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gunan01 said:

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This is extremely frustrating to say the least. We've had 1.5 years to prepare for the contingency of this school year being affected by the virus. To have no top-down plan for mitigating exposure is laughable.

"Just be prepared to get it" if you have a school-aged kid is a failed fatalistic way of thinking. ESP when dealing with a potentially deadly virus that leaves 5-15% of those that get it with long-term consequences.

---

Link to the 5-15% with severe consequences data? Feels like this has been disproven repeatedly on here.

---

I see one category is over 5, so it's reasonable to say that group has severe consequences in 5-15. It is nothing but fear mongering for the other categories.

Drs Ioannidis & Axfors at Stanford:

Age Infection Survival Rate
0-19 99.9973%
20-29 99.986%
30-39 99.969%
40-49 99.918%
50-59 99.73%
60-69 99.41%
70+ 97.6% (non-inst.)
70+ 94.5% (all)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.08.21260210v1

---

I'd guess he isn't talking survival.

Anyone can make up scary sounding stats

Maybe he's thinking of the data in these articles about long Covid?

(They're subscription, but you can read and click links for at least some of the article.)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-vaccines-do-their-work-focus-moves-to-long-covid-11627038001

https://www.wsj.com/articles/they-got-covid-one-year-ago-theyre-still-sick-11615838402?mod=article_inline


This one is free
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210624/23-percent-covid-patients-report-long-haul-symptoms

hamean02 said:

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KidDoc said:

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cc_ag92 said:

---

What precautions do you think schools should implement? Do you think there's anything they can do to slow the spread? I'm curious because I know our local elementary schools are really struggling right now. Lots of unfilled sub vacancies, classes with half of the students sick, etc.

---

Don't send kids to school sick. This is a cultural issue that I struggle with as much as anyone with my work- but if you have symptoms you need to stay home until you know it isn't COVID.

If you think it is allergies, check pollen.com. If there are no new pollens popping up is it NOT allergies (unless you are allergic to indoor stuff but then it shouldn't start suddenly).

Good hand hygiene, good ventilation likely helps. In the middle/high schools stagger class transfers so not EVERY kid is in the cramped hallways at the same time. Space desks out if at all possible, I know the CDC said 3 feet is probably ok but more is better.

The bottom line though is every teacher, student, and parent should just assume they are going to get exposed. If not in the next few months then in the next few years. Get your rest, exercise, vitamins, and vaccine especially if you have any risk factors.

For the 12+ age I've been watching the myocarditis reports and they don't seem to really be going up as more and more get vaccine so I would strongly consider vaccinating your teens at this point as the vaccines do decrease the spread-- roughly 60% by most estimates.

---

is there any data reference points for vaccine reducing spread? ive hears some say theres no data that it decreases spread, which doesnt make sense to me but havent seen anything.

---

Here's How Well COVID-19 Vaccines Work Against the Delta Variant (healthline.com)

Quote:

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• Data so far suggests efficacy rates of approximately 67 percent for the J&J vaccine, 66 to 95 percent for the Moderna vaccine, and 42 to 96 percent for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

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Not taking a shot at you, as you post great stuff here. However "approximately 42-96%" seems like a generous definition of "approximately"

GAC06 said:

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Not taking a shot at you, as you post great stuff here. However "approximately 42-96%" seems like a generous definition of "approximately"

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Yeah for that one it is really dependent on the strain. For Beta strain (mostly in South Africa) it was awful. For Alpha and Delta it seems to be pretty good.

KidDoc said:

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cc_ag92 said:

---

What precautions do you think schools should implement? Do you think there's anything they can do to slow the spread? I'm curious because I know our local elementary schools are really struggling right now. Lots of unfilled sub vacancies, classes with half of the students sick, etc.

---

Don't send kids to school sick. This is a cultural issue that I struggle with as much as anyone with my work- but if you have symptoms you need to stay home until you know it isn't COVID.

If you think it is allergies, check pollen.com. If there are no new pollens popping up is it NOT allergies (unless you are allergic to indoor stuff but then it shouldn't start suddenly).

Good hand hygiene, good ventilation likely helps. In the middle/high schools stagger class transfers so not EVERY kid is in the cramped hallways at the same time. Space desks out if at all possible, I know the CDC said 3 feet is probably ok but more is better.

The bottom line though is every teacher, student, and parent should just assume they are going to get exposed. If not in the next few months then in the next few years. Get your rest, exercise, vitamins, and vaccine especially if you have any risk factors.

For the 12+ age I've been watching the myocarditis reports and they don't seem to really be going up as more and more get vaccine so I would strongly consider vaccinating your teens at this point as the vaccines do decrease the spread-- roughly 60% by most estimates.

---

At the school I work at, this is a huge issue. For whatever reason we've literally had kiddos told as their parents drop them off to go straight to the nurse. Why, I have no idea. She thinks that the parents are misinformed somehow that this will get them out of having keep the kid home. I guess they think our nurse has magical powers or something or they expect us to keep these kids in the nurses office until the eod. But that is the worst thing they can do if they want to be able to go to work and have the kid stay in school. Once these kids present in person with any Covid symptoms, they are sent home and have to test to be able to come back. You'd be better off holding the kid at home for a day or 2 and if the symptoms go away, take them back. You know the entire point the parent is trying to do is not have to test and not have a kid.

Are they wanting a covid test from the nurse maybe?

88planoAg said:

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Are they wanting a covid test from the nurse maybe?

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She cant give one. Schools don't have testing kits. At least not our district...

There are very strong incentives TO SEND your kid to school sick.

If COVID is suspected, first you have to figure out how to get tested. You may have to wait 2 or 3 days to get the results. In the meantime, if you have more than one kid in school, they all have to stay home.

As a parent, you have to take that time off work. And you could end up having to take 10 days or more off work, depending on the test results.

How many parents want do that for a runny nose? That's why COVID will spread life wildfire in schools. Very few will be diligent about any of this.

Didn't realize that was only Boerne. They will even test family.

That must depend on the district. Wylie didn't require siblings to stay home unless there was a confirmed exposure to Covid last year. This year students are encouraged, not required. to stay home even with a confirmed exposure.